Stealth destroyers, what a waste of time!!!

[Zalcron]

Anyone see the point of the above since they dont escort ? i have lost carriers to other surface ships because the SD dont intercept attackers. Is there a way to mod them? or a way to keep building regular destroyers? or a mod etc?

 

[Dida]

What is the point of having a destroyer if it doesn't escort transports and carriers??? They are totally useless.

 

[Lurking Liu]

Because nothing can see them, so you can blockade an entire continent with only a couple? Stealth Destroyers are amazingly good. They intercept aircraft at a 50% rate, so a few of those around your enemy's target will shut down their air game entirely--even moreso because the AI doesn't know they're there--unless it's cheating, but I don't think that's the case. Furthermore, since they can't be seen, you can attack with them with impunity. Think of them as Submarines with 30 Strength.



As for escorts, you have Battleships and Missile Cruisers for that. While I don't necessarily think the Stealth Destroyer should obsolete the normal Destroyer entirely, I do think Battleships and Missile Cruisers make better escorts.

 

[A1CBOZ]

Because nothing can see them, so you can blockade an entire continent with only a couple? Stealth Destroyers are amazingly good. They intercept aircraft at a 50% rate, so a few of those around your enemy's target will shut down their air game entirely--even moreso because the AI doesn't know they're there--unless it's cheating, but I don't think that's the case. Furthermore, since they can't be seen, you can attack with them with impunity. Think of them as Submarines with 30 Strength.



As for escorts, you have Battleships and Missile Cruisers for that. While I don't necessarily think the Stealth Destroyer should obsolete the normal Destroyer entirely, I do think Battleships and Missile Cruisers make better escorts.

Agreed. Use Battleships/MCs for escorting of Carriers and transports, and use attack subs, for sub defense...

 

[KrikkitTwo]

The problem is the Stealth Destroyer should still be Able to engage (otherwise what's the point of the 30 Strength)

Stealth units in general should have the option to Engage or Hide if their stack is involved in combat.
[and the Stealth destroyer should still detect submarines.]

 

[KaytieKat]

Hi

Yeah stealth destroyers bug me big time too.

First thing that bugs me is they SHOULD be able to defend in a stack. I assume they supossed to have guns or missiles or something. And I dont think most captains would go "hey look our ships are getting sunk. I WOULD go help em but I dont want them to see me so I will stay in hiding." You'd THINK they would want to go jump into the fight and help.

Second thing that bugs me is they cant see subs. If a regular destroyer has whatever sub finding stuff they have that necessary to see even the most modern subs in the game then it's "upgrade" should be able to too.

Third thing that bugs me is that other ships cant see em no matter what. They way I understand it stealth doesnt mean invisible like invisible woman of fantastic four. It just mean very very hard to see on radar (and I guess in case of stealthy ships on sonar too) So if a ship get very close to em they should then be able to SEE them at least. I mean I dont think even stealth bombers are 100% invisible they just have a very high chance of not being intercepted but a 100% chance. Something like they cant be seen unless a ship tries to cross the square they actually on then they show up and you're given option to attack if you're at war or in territory where it would be ok to attack. Just as if you were crossing a square that had any other type of surface ship on it.

Actually I think doing this would make sea maps LOTS more fun. A stack of transports and regualr surface ships travelling innocently over the ocean mind its own business on way to pound someone then BAM out of nowhere a stealth destroyer attacks and sinks a ship. Now what do you do? After it won fight it ran off so you cant see it. Do you keep going and leave it to heal up and have an even tuffer ship come back behind you later? Do you send out some or all your escorts to diff squares on chance to find it? Sure you could sink it or maybe there're other stealths out their just waiting for your group to "break" formation so it can pick you off easier? It would make you have to make choices. It would even make you not JUST use stacks of ships. Ahead of your main "fleet" you would want "picket" ships criss crossing back and forth hunting the hard to see stealths. Doing all that kinda sounds fun to me.

Third thing that bugs me is if they NOT going to be able to defend or see subs then they should be a unit available along with regular destroyers not INSTEAD of em. Actually if the game just did this and let you have the option of using regular or stealth destroyers after you research stealth I would be happy.

Fourth thing that bugs me is why is it ONLY stealth destroyers can see other stealth destroyers? I mean isnt everything that supossed to make em stealthy just stuff like their shape and what they made out of that makes it hard for radar to bounce off of em and send back detection signals? What in any of that also gives em ability to see other stealthy ships? And even if they have some super sensor or something that can see stealthy ships how can it be super enough to see other high tech stealthy ships but cant see a regular old sub?

But since they in the game they way they are they might as well find some use for em and one use I have been thinking of is have them be the "explorer of the sea" give em the medic promotion and let em travel along with stacks to heal em and you know they almost never gonna be in a battle so they can at least help heal the units that will be doing the work. Stealth medics could also travel with sub "wolf packs" without giveing them away. At least until the other civs start sending out stealth ships of their own.

But they still bug me though

Kaytie

 

[Lurking Liu]

The problem is the Stealth Destroyer should still be Able to engage (otherwise what's the point of the 30 Strength)

Stealth units in general should have the option to Engage or Hide if their stack is involved in combat.
[and the Stealth destroyer should still detect submarines.]

They can engage. They simply can't be engaged is all. As with everything else in the game, it's a matter of knowing how to best put them to use. You know the problem with Submarines? Since they're weaker than a Destroyer, you have to use Wolf Pack tactics--the first sub attacks and usually withdraws but often gets destroyed outright, then the second takes out the weakened Destroyer and is weakened in the process, then taken out by something else. That sucks. Stealth Destroyers, however, attack at an even rate and if they are severely weakened, cannot be retaliated against. I think they qualify for Flanking promotions, but don't quote me on that. Furthermore, you can choke a naval empire to death without fear of them breaking your blockade.



Once again--Should they replace Destroyers entirely? No. Destroyers still have their place, able to fill that gap between Attack Sub and Battleship, but that doesn't make the Stealth Destroyer useless.


EDIT:

Third thing that bugs me is that other ships cant see em no matter what. They way I understand it stealth doesnt mean invisible like invisible woman of fantastic four. It just mean very very hard to see on radar (and I guess in case of stealthy ships on sonar too) So if a ship get very close to em they should then be able to SEE them at least. I mean I dont think even stealth bombers are 100% invisible they just have a very high chance of not being intercepted but a 100% chance. Something like they cant be seen unless a ship tries to cross the square they actually on then they show up and you're given option to attack if you're at war or in territory where it would be ok to attack. Just as if you were crossing a square that had any other type of surface ship on it.

Forgot to respond to this, too

A sea tile is a very large area, and unlike land units it appears naval units represent a single ship. (ie: Riflemen are actually a regiment of infantry, whereas a Destroyer is a single Destroyer) Stealth Destroyers are invisible to radar, however the attacking ships aren't. The Stealth Destroyer can see incoming ships and get out of the way without engaging. The Stealth upgrade is well represented, because the only time it's used is on the attack--when the ship is able to sneak up without being noticed while still miles away.