Strictly settler strategy and frustration

[Leondegrance]

I ramped up the difficulty to emperor and I am annoyed at the fast settler generation by the AI.

It annoys me because they get the best spots ahead of me, leaving crumble and junk land to me. Especially depressing on rich resource maps.

I read somewhere here that some of you settle up to 4-5 towns by turn 100 (standard speed) on even higher difficulty like deity. So the question is how do yo u do it ?

Do you immediately start making a settler in turn 1 ? Then set another settler immediately from town 2, third settler from town 3, and so on until 4-5 by turn 100 ?

I usually start immediately monument on turn 1, followed by shrine, but it looks like bad choice on emperor because like I said the AI takes the best plots ahead of me. This is not to mean that I would lose the game if I don't settle a nice place as we know there are multiple routes to counteract but just very annoying when I want Progress and find myself outspaced with settlers. Am I right to think that Progress is bad choice on high difficulty ?

 

[Stalker0]

Monument shrine warrior, and then settlers until I’ve settled what I want.

 

[Leondegrance]

Monument shrine warrior, and then settlers until I’ve settled what I want.

Don't know, I think it is very map specific. I don't know what kind of maps you play, with how many Civs and so on, but I find it impossible to beat the settler race with the AI on this difficulty. Pachacuti is so fast, I didn't have even one settler on turn 44 he had 3 towns. Ridiculous. I guess I shouldn't race settlers on this difficulty and focus on my own game.

For example build military and catch his town early as possible. Sooner or later those fat towns will be mine.

 

[neo_arcadia]

My first settler most of the times are when a city have 4 citizen (capital or non-capital). 90% of my games are progress though.

 

[Leondegrance]

Me too. But I will try something weird. I will try settler on turn 1. Then switch to the normal route. City 2 also will start settler on turn 1. Hopefully there will be not much barbarians around. Even if I make 4-5 cities by turn 100, I am doubtful this is good strategy at all because the AI DoWs very soon. Without proper defense and military all these rushed towns mean nothing at the end.

 

[crdvis16]

Me too. But I will try something weird. I will try settler on turn 1. Then switch to the normal route. City 2 also will start settler on turn 1. Hopefully there will be not much barbarians around. Even if I make 4-5 cities by turn 100, I am doubtful this is good strategy at all because the AI DoWs very soon. Without proper defense and military all these rushed towns mean nothing at the end.

Please don't do that. You can see the build orders that work well by reading some of the photojournals that have been posted. Monument/shrine/warrior/settlerx3 (perhaps buying a worker too) is a pretty solid start. Depending on the difficulty you should roughly keep pace with the AI's settling speed, give or take a city.

If you feel like your spots are being taken before you can settle then either:

1) your map settings are too crowded
2) you are being greedy and think too much territory is "yours" by default

Your initial cities should only be 4-6 tiles from the capital, typically.

 

[Leondegrance]

Look. How can Pachacuti settle town 3 on turn 43 ? Machu is where I was aiming at, 3 luxuries, very nice.

I could have beaten him for that spot but that would require going into Pottery immediately. So that as soon as researched can start settler.

But I didn't. Now it looks pretty bad. All nice spots are taken and my chances are only war. The problem is I just wasted Progress here. Better had taken Tradition.

My advise is take Progress only if you willing to take Pottery and rush settlers. Otherwise Progress is waste; as you can see the AI is quite fast and the window is very short.

 

[Leondegrance]

Please don't do that. You can see the build orders that work well by reading some of the photojournals that have been posted. Monument/shrine/warrior/settlerx3 (perhaps buying a worker too) is a pretty solid start. Depending on the difficulty you should roughly keep pace with the AI's settling speed, give or take a city.

If you feel like your spots are being taken before you can settle then either:

1) your map settings are too crowded
2) you are being greedy and think too much territory is "yours" by default

Your initial cities should only be 4-6 tiles from the capital, typically.

You raise a valid point here. Greediness. Indeed I tend to play greedily in the beginning but I want to explain why.

To me it is a short-run v/s long-run benefits dilemma. If I place my cities too close to each other I no doubt would benefit strongly in the short run. But in the later stages of the game that may turn problematic. If I place them as far away I am doing it only for late game efficiency and that is not a small thing when we reach that stage.

It appears to me that the higher the difficulty is the better is to think in short-term benefit. So less greediness is required on emperor and higher.

 

[Minh Le]

You cant make settler before pottery though . Normally I go monument, shrine then settler (buy a warrior and steal a worker from AI)

 

[Stalker0]

If I place my cities too close to each other I no doubt would benefit strongly in the short run. But in the later stages of the game that may turn problematic...So less greediness is required on emperor and higher.

I think people overestimate how much land a city needs to be productive. If you factor in specialists, most cities do not need that many land tiles, and often when your at the point in the game where that does start to matter the extra yields aren't as important anyway.

And yes, as you move into the big leagues, you have to accept you can't get everything you want The AI is challenging, they will steal wonders that are "yours by right", they will gobble up land, ally with your most important City States. You will have to get comfortable with the notion that early on that your starts won't be perfect. Sometimes you can be peaceful and get what you want, sometimes you are forced into fighting based on the map. The key is flexibility.

 

[Leondegrance]

Okay, finally Saturday. Let's rock with Morocco.

I will be changing strategy indeed. Less greedy, more conservative, place cities in close proximity, balance the empire, build army, exploit the international relations and when the time is right hit their capital.

 

[Workerspam]

Look. How can Pachacuti settle town 3 on turn 43 ? Machu is where I was aiming at, 3 luxuries, very nice.

I could have beaten him for that spot but that would require going into Pottery immediately. So that as soon as researched can start settler.

But I didn't. Now it looks pretty bad. All nice spots are taken and my chances are only war. The problem is I just wasted Progress here. Better had taken Tradition.

My advise is take Progress only if you willing to take Pottery and rush settlers. Otherwise Progress is waste; as you can see the AI is quite fast and the window is very short.

It's turn 43 and your still 4 turns from finishing Pottery. The AI is beating you to good spots because you are not rushing to get those spots. The advice from Crdvis16 and Minh Le is spot on. If there are city spots you desperately want your build order should be Monument/Shrine/Warrior/Settler (which means Pottery is, at worse, your 2nd tech), and maybe even skip the Warrior if barbarians aren't bad and the spot is at risk (I might skip the warrior for a defensive spot that cuts off access to the AI or to snag a Natural Wonder next to a City State).

When going Progress my capital will usually build 3-5 Settlers. I'll normally mix in some Workers and Military as well but if I have to churn out Settlers one after the other to grab key spots I will. My secondary cities will take over Settler production from there, after they've built Monument/Shrine and frequently Council/Well. You can easily have 8-10 cities by turn 100 if you have the room.

Slow playing it is fine too (and sometimes necessary if your start is crowded) but many games you have the option to Settler rush just like the AI. But you do have to rush.

 

[crdvis16]

Yeah, pottery is almost always my 2nd or 3rd tech researched.

Build order is usually monument/shrine or shrine/monument, warrior, then settlers as needed (maybe fit a well in there if convenient and rush-buy a worker if tiles need improving).

If you're playing as Morocco I'd really recommend going progress and packing your cities tightly together. Basically any location is good enough for a Moroccan city because they are basically guaranteed 6ish good tiles from Kasbahs surrounding the city. I made a post not too long ago in the strategy section about Morocco that might help.

 

[Galbias]

There's a reason early game in 4Xes is often referred to as the "land grab" phase, unless you start out alone on an island settling the good spots should be priority #1. Even if you are alone or have no immediate competition, the faster you settle new cities the faster they'll start growing and building things so you want to get them out there earlier rather than later. Pottery as a 2nd or 3rd tech is what I do in every game.

And yeah, as other people have mentioned, higher difficulty means that, all else being equal, AI will be ahead of you. You need to play better than them; if there's a good spot you need to start building that Settler before they do.

 

[tu_79]

If this were true, it would be impossible to win just with three cities. Surely some of you can win with just three cities.

 

[Paramecium]

Look. How can Pachacuti settle town 3 on turn 43 ? Machu is where I was aiming at, 3 luxuries, very nice.

I could have beaten him for that spot but that would require going into Pottery immediately. So that as soon as researched can start settler.

But I didn't. Now it looks pretty bad. All nice spots are taken and my chances are only war. The problem is I just wasted Progress here. Better had taken Tradition.

My advise is take Progress only if you willing to take Pottery and rush settlers. Otherwise Progress is waste; as you can see the AI is quite fast and the window is very short.

You want to settle where Machu is? But that map looks really crowed, China is right next to you. In general I can only advice for expanding that you try to secure as much land as possible and as safe as possible and securing your natural monopoly ressource. Settling 10 tiles away from your capital in that crowded map would have the risk that china or the Inca would settle between that space, making it really tough to defend that city.

That certain situation is especially hard, you are quite boxed in, that big desert is just wasted land. You should focus on conquering china and let the Inca be, they have mountains and their slingers at the start, tough opponents.

 

[Leondegrance]

Thank you Paramecium. For thinking out of the box and making objective remarks that in this particular case my starting position is hard and I am cornered. But without a doubt my early settler openning was also too slow, as others suggested.

I think the early settler strategy very much depends on what victory type will be pursued. There are two opennings - rushing settler v/s delayed settler.

Delayed settler is in favor of warmongering strategy. You need not be concerned with settlers if your goal will be conquering. On the other hand, if the goal is to establish pieceful relations and pursue a cultural victory then rushing settlers plays an important role.

 

[YukiN]

Thank you Paramecium. For thinking out of the box and making objective remarks that in this particular case my starting position is hard and I am cornered. But without a doubt my early settler openning was also too slow, as others suggested.

I think the early settler strategy very much depends on what victory type will be pursued. There are two opennings - rushing settler v/s delayed settler.

Delayed settler is in favor of warmongering strategy. You need not be concerned with settlers if your goal will be conquering. On the other hand, if the goal is to establish pieceful relations and pursue a cultural victory then rushing settlers plays an important role.

Rushing settlers is still good for Authority. That is a wide tree that gets plenty from settling; there is a reason a free Settler is in there. Each city you settle is one less city you have to spend units and time conquering. You also naturally get more hammers if you have more cities and hammers win wars.