The Wonder Trick

[Hoffmann]

The Wonder Trick in Civ II is to start building a wonder in a city and let it keep building it after the wonder has been built in another city. If you don't touch the build menu in the city, the game allows keep building the outdated wonder. Once a new wonder technology becomes available, you enter the build menu of the city and change to the current wonder. This way, you can utilize an outdated wonder to accumulate shields for a quick build of a new wonder. An aspect of this is, that you can accumulate shields past the required number of shields to build the outdated wonder. If you switch to a current wonder, which you don't want, or don't want in that city, you risk it being built once you reach the required number of shields.

What do the community members think of using the "Wonder Trick" for instance in GOTM games? Is it legal in Early Landing Games or in Early Conquest games? I can hardly play without this trick any longer!

 

[Magic_gorter]

It's a trick allowed in GOTM games. However it's perhaps better to make caravans or freights. With them waiting near you city you can build very quickly (if you have enough vans waiting outside in one turn) a wonder. The vans can be used to build a wonder without the lose of shields (caravan is worth 50 shields and will give you 50 shields (don't dismiss them in your city because you then only get half of the shields like all the units do)). The vans can be build in more cities and moved to the wonder city (you don't need to start building a wonder in it yet but make a caravan instead). This way it won't cost much time to build yourself a wonder.

The best thing of making caravans is that you can rushbuy them very easy (swith to warrior buy it, change to phalanx buy it, then diplomat, settler and caravan). If you have enough money you can have a lot of vans in a few turns.

 

[Hoffmann]

I always wondered what happes if a city cranks out say 63 shields per turn to build 50 shield caravans. Are the last 13 shields wasted, or does the player get a benefit somehow? I usually build wonders in super production cities with lots of shields.

Thanks for the tip though - it fits nicely with ICS strategies for instance when playing an Early Conquest game, where you want to build wonders in any city and just feed it caravans from cities with relatively low output of shields.

 

[Magic_gorter]

If you have cities with 50+ shields then all extra shields are lost. In that case it's better to start building the wonder and use caravans or freight to add extra shields. But in the early game you won't have such cities.

 

[Hoffmann]

Ideally, it should be possible to produce caravans for help building wonders without any waste. So I am wondering how this is best done. Say a city has an output of 22 shields. If I let it build the first round, I have to rush buy something so that 22 shields are left, i.e. I have to rush buy something with 28 shields for the caravan which requires 50 shields. Of course this is not possible, so I rush buy something with 30 shields, and live with the waste of 2 shields. I could also let the city build for two turns, ending up at 44 shields. If I rush buy the last 6 shields, they are wasted. So I have to let it run for one more turn, ending up at 66 shields of which the 16 are lost. So in this case, the optimal rush buy is buying the 8 extra shields after the first round to get 30 shields. Follow me this far? I guess there is not much point in rush buying a caravan from scratch, i.e. all 50 shields, even incrementally. It would be too expensive, of course depending on the hurry that you are in.

I often find myself in the situation that I have to remember building a wonder as soon as I realize that I need it. Letting a city start to build it is a good idea, for I might have many things to think about at the time, say in the middle of an unplanned war with the greedy greeks. Later the wonder can be built to completion by adding cash or caravans. Here, the Wonder Trick is wonderful, because I might start to build the wonder ahead of time, so that a significant amount of shields have accumulated at the time when the tech becomes available. I sometimes start building a soon to be obsolete wonder, because I expect that there will be a wonder that I'll want later on, and then most of it will be built already. You may say that I have a Wonder City in my plan.

As an example, in my last game I desperately wanted J. S. Bach at a time when I was forced to select researching Warrior Code. But the French got ahead of me because I didn't research Feudalism yet. I wanted J.S. Bach, because Railroad had been discovered, so my HG was not doing me much good. I had started building a wonder in a city that another city was already building near completion. I started doing that in a third city too. The French refused to give me Theology. I obtained Warrior Code from a pet Civ and completed reserching Railroad instead. Now being able to switch from the obsolete wonder to Darwin, I then obtained Feudalism and rushed Darwin with some cash. I got two new techs and finally got to Theology. Having the cash and caravans ready, I managed to build J. S. Bach in time to beat the French. I needed the two free techs, because I wasn't sure if I would be offered the choice of Theology next, not having kept track of the 0,1,2-rotation. If I had not gotten J.S. Bach, I would have to raise luxuries or build coloseums in most cities. When I later added Adam Smith to my list of wonders, having only cities with one gold improvements, I managed to have zero luxuries and zero costs. That meant that I could crack up research into 100% and pay nothing, which I thought was neat at the time.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

Hoffmann,
As Magic has already said, the best way to prepare for wonders is to build food caravans. As you mentioned there are times when you cannot plan very far ahead. I often make food caravans when I am not sure what else to do in a city. While letting a city build an already-made-wonder is allowed, it only makes sense when you lose a wonder race to a rival and there is no desirable wonder to switch to yet.

Hope to see you at GOTMs soon.

 

[Hoffmann]

... the best way to prepare for wonders is to build food caravans.

I would still say it depends on the situation. I agree if it is for instance an EC game. But when you build caravans, you waste shields with each caravan. It's possible to reduce the loss by timing part of an incremental rush buy of the caravan correctly. If you let a city build the wonder, no shields are lost. So in a way, you may argue that the Wonder Trick is more efficient. You also reduce the effort needed to keep the caravans coming to the wonder city. I understand that the really good players try to be as efficient as possible, so the Wonder Trick might have it's place after all.

- It's a good point to have the other cities helping by sending caravans when they have nothing else to do. I may complement it by letting high production cities build wonders when they have nothing else to do!

So when is the next GOTM for Civ II?

 

[Ali Ardavan]

I would still say it depends on the situation. I agree if it is for instance an EC game. But when you build caravans, you waste shields with each caravan. It's possible to reduce the loss by timing part of an incremental rush buy of the caravan correctly. If you let a city build the wonder, no shields are lost.

First of all, many times the caravans help a city build a wonder. I only build a wonder in one turn using caravans and cash when I have to beat a rival to it. Typically my cities build about 50 shields themselves and the rest comes from caravans. Secondly, if you care that much about a few shields getting lost you can always take care of that by micromanaging the city and moving the workers around. About the only time it is more efficient to let a city build more than 50 shields towards a wonder is when its production is above 30 and by the time that happens most wonders are already built.

So when is the next GOTM for Civ II?

GOTM 113 is the current GOTM which will be due on October 3th, 2010.

 

[Prof. Garfield]

I think all the concern about wasting shields is a matter of being "penny wise" but "pound foolish." Adequate micromanaging can cut down most of the waste building a caravan, but even if you waste a few shields per caravan it doesn't add very much to the cost of a wonder. There are great benefits to building caravans instead of wonders, however.

You can partial rushbuy a caravan, and if you use incremental rush buying, the caravan is cheaper to rush than a wonder.

Building caravans gives you much greater flexibility. If you need some military units, you can switch easily. If your city grows and falls into disorder, you can switch to a temple and only lose a few shields. If your city suddenly supplies a fantastic commodity you can rushbuild the caravan so that it can carry that commodity, and then start the "wonder caravan" again. If you just want the city production for something else, rush the caravan and then you can use the city for what you like. If you build an outdated wonder, you have to keep building it until you get the tech you need for the wonder you want. If you build a wonder and an emergency arises, you have to forfeit 50% of your effort (more, if you've progressed on a wonder far enough to have accumulated more than 2x the shields needed to cure the emergency).

Alternatively, if you have established a really good trade system, you can build commodity caravans instead of food caravans and accumulate them at your main "port city." When you get a wonder tech, choose the caravans that look like they will have the worst payout and build the wonder in your port city (and then rebuild those "lesser" commodity caravans in their home cities). Remember that it is always better to deliver a caravan than put it to a wonder if it will give you at least 200g in delivery (provided that you can deliver the caravan at will, which frequently isn't the case).

This has the benefit that if your ships come in, you can immediately load them and send them off, while your caravan producing cities replenish the supply waiting at port. Instead of having "dead stock" for both your wonders and your trade caravans, you can combine the stock into one and thus reduce the "buffer zone" you need. It also reduces logistics; all caravans can go to the port city (particularly nice if the "go-to" command actually sends the units on a good route) including any food caravans. Once they are all in the same spot at the port city, it is a relatively easy task to choose what goes aboard ship and what stays behind, or what caravans are best to put into the wonder and what should stay for the next ship.

 

[Hoffmann]

Thanks for the comments about micro managing shield production and how to make the best use of caravans!

- Good point about using the port city to build the wonder and decide there which caravans to ship and which to help build the wonder. Also a good point that rush builds of caravans is cheaper than rush builds of wonders.

- It seems that emergencies play a big role. Good point with some strategies to handle that. I like that a peaceful caravan build can change into a crusader if suddenly necessary. I rarely have emergencies occurring in my wonder building cities, perhaps because they are off the coast somewhere near minable hills inland away from enemy intruders. But a sudden need for an aqueduct or a sewer system is not uncommon.

- True that most wonders are built by the time cities shield production are in excess of 50 shields. But how do I best make use of cities with high shield production? - I guess the aswer will be "build more caravans." !?! Another thing is that after Industrialization is discovered, I often start rush building factories before building more wonders, to get a higher shileld production in my wonder cities, and often go directly for Hoover Dam, to increase shield production further and avoid pollution. Is it a good idea to give factories priority over caravans early? Guess it depends on the goal of the game. Say in an Early Landing game, there would be no time for factories and Hoover Dam?

See you at GOTM113.

 

[Prof. Garfield]

But how do I best make use of cities with high shield production?

You really should have an idea of what you want to do with a 50+ shield city before you put the effort into making one. It will either take a lot of settler/engineer time to mine the hills, or you will have to have an expensive manufacturing plant. You might re-home your military to that city to bring its production down to around 50 or so, or you can get the shields up to 70 if possible and build howitzers in the city (if available) and go on some sort of conquest. If you plan to build a spaceship, try to pump its shields up to 80.

Sure, if you are close to a wonder and have a city with fantastic production, there may be some merit to starting another wonder and switching when you get the right one (though it is unlikely that you will be able to use a wonder that will then be completed by an AI); of course, if you have cities with 50s production, you probably have the game in hand anyway.

Is it a good idea to give factories priority over caravans early?

The answer to this question is a classic answer in civ 2: it depends! If you have very few caravans, you should rush a few first in order to get the delivery bonus and the trade route. If you have enough to deliver for the moment (i.e. you can fill up the science box each turn for the next couple of turns), or the city in question can't produce anything demanded, build the factory if the city deserves it.

Guess it depends on the goal of the game. Say in an Early Landing game, there would be no time for factories and Hoover Dam?

I don't have much experience in early landing, but in GOTM 113 I only built 4 factories, and 2 or 3 of them were built solely for engineer support, and the other(s) were built for engineer support and so that the city would have 10 shields production afterward. The reason was that I was (and am) rushbuying everything I need, usually on alternate turns (ie let the city produce a few shields, and rush on the turn after). I never bothered to spare the 2400 gold to rush Hoover Dam.

This brings my last point about where to build factories. I used to have a policy that a city must have at least 10 base production before getting a factory, but I've recently thought that it should be different. If you are rush-buying everything, build factories when they will bring you up at least 1 multiple of 10 shields, as long as the city is primarily building units; this will save you 21g per turn (a rate of return of about 5% on a fully rushed factory), but only if you have the spare money (and remember that things like superhighways give a much greater return). The other key is if you can make the city hit a multiple of shields that will allow production in 1 or 2 turns, it may be a good idea to build a factory there as well, or if you need extra support in a city (usually only relevant if the city is supporting engineers).

 

[Ali Ardavan]

True that most wonders are built by the time cities shield production are in excess of 50 shields. But how do I best make use of cities with high shield production? - I guess the aswer will be "build more caravans." !?!

You got it. Here is one simple rule for success at Civ2:
When in doubt make a caravan or a settler

Another thing is that after Industrialization is discovered, I often start rush building factories before building more wonders, to get a higher shileld production in my wonder cities, and often go directly for Hoover Dam, to increase shield production further and avoid pollution. Is it a good idea to give factories priority over caravans early?

Factories are almost never a good alternative to caravans unless you already have more caravans than you know what to do with. I rarely build factories before Hoover dam. The extra pollution is just not worth it.

 

[Hoffmann]

- What's the purpose of shields, when you can rushbuy everything?

- Is it just more efficient to buy units and city improvements rather than to build them with shields?

 

[Peaster]

In the early game [the most important phase IMO], before big trade bonuses and improved govts, you will probably produce units mostly from shields. Eventually [unless you play for EC] that reverses, though shields will probably still make up a big chunk of production. We are probably more aware of gold than shields, because we use rush-buys in more urgent situations, and they require more thought than routine shield making, but the shields are still there.


Here's a typical pattern; suppose Athens makes 5 shields per turn towards a Settler:

turn 1: make 5 shields and rushbuy to 10, then 20, then 30
turn 2: make 5 shields
turn 3: make 5 shields and a new Settler.

So, 15 of 40 shields are natural and 25 are bought, at about 2.4 gold per shield. Of course, this pattern might be different with mega-cities, or with a huge economy, but there is usually some cooperation between shields and gold.

 

[Prof. Garfield]

What's the purpose of shields, when you can rushbuy everything?

If you actually want to produce something in a particular city, you can usually produce a greater value of that object by working shields instead of trade. That is to say, it costs 2-2.5 gold per shield to rush things, and you can usually get a greater value by working shields. Suppose your city has access to forest. Working a forest will give you 4-5 gold worth of production towards what you want to produce, whereas you usually can't get 4-5 extra gold and science from an unworked square.

Is it just more efficient to buy units and city improvements rather than to build them with shields?

It depends on how valuable your time is compared to your gold. In the early game, gold is more valuable than time in most cases, because you have so little gold. (also because your cities have to accumulate 20 food before you can build a settler) You spend your effort looking and planning for the best "deals," like rushing a shield to bring remaining production down to a multiple of the city's shields per turn. Occasionally, your time will become very valuable, such as when you need to get a wonder built quickly, and so you spend your gold to get it done.

As the game progresses, you will usually start to have gold in more abundance (typically as a result of beginning to trade), so your time becomes more valuable relative to your gold and you begin to rush buy more.

The extreme situation is where your trade has left you with so much gold (and the ability to make more deliveries in the foreseeable future) that you rush everything everywhere from scratch every turn. As you get closer to this extreme, you may begin to find that the best way to build wonders is by rushbuilding them directly (or only putting in part of the caravans and rushing the rest).