SGOTM 14 - Team Roadkill

city placement decisions
Positions of city D, E and F I proposed, are of course subject to variation after refining scouting the interested area.
E and F were indicated just to show that the placement of city "A" allows the settling of a couple of more cities in the area to share that food.
Position of B and D are provisional, and showed mostly to understand if hooking marble/stone was for you guys a priority.
Position of C was also just dropped there to show there is space for another city there later, which might also hook 2 seafood resources.
Without building any early wonder right next, the city I personally would definitely settle here on this map, is city "A"!

next city placement
So, starting from what I just said above, I agree on everything Habitus said in the previous posts, except on moving the placement of "A" city 2S.
Doing so, in name of gaining a (seafood less!) coastal city, we end up giving up on both fresh water access and early hooking the pigs in CFC.

IMO, with plenty of nice better alternatives for a coastal city, settle "A" in its stronger strategical position should be a priority: placed in its stronger position this city would likely be one of ours best cities.

So, I believe that if the need it is a very early coastal city next, then let's just settle that coastal city somewhere else better than 2S from "A", where we could also hook a (or a couple of) seafood resource(s) with it, and then settle city "A" later, as our third city or such.

The purpose here is to underline that, for the way I understand the game, "A" seems a really strong position to me for our next city.
But take this just as my opinion: if we end up choosing for our second city the coastal spot 2S from "A", I won't complain. :)

- yatta.
 
Hmm, what are our thoughts on Great Lighthouse? This is starting to look like a VERY watery start... minus the capital.

As for A location, I think we have two different things here.

1) The northern spot is great for a strong 'mega-city', as it has substantial food and land area.
2) Southern spot is great for rapid expansion. It has all it needs in a single ring of culture for a long time, and we can instead place a second city near the pigs. (even within our current view).

However, we are charismatic, and do have early gems nearby. That means building a monument isn't such a bad idea, and with gems we are looking at size 5 or 6 expansion cities, without any other bonus'. That does kinda lean us in favor of the bigger cities.

Perhaps we do the North location as a GP farm?

I do admit to liking the idea of the South location, and whipping a second settler to quickly grab the Stone in the NE. That gives us nice options too, but will be a bit harder on the economy.
 
arghhhhh!~

I personally think are biggest priority is scouting. If we are truly isolated we should settle our land and priortize potential wonders very differently.

I recommend we target a coastal city, I find it likely we have multiple landmasses.

After all dorthy is likley still in kansas......
 
If we do share a land mass however It would be nice to settle along the same river we are on to the North. The instant trade route without a road would by nice and riverside cities rock. Pretty sure I would will want us to settle North once we get a little more scouting done up there.

I do not agree with Yatta's city A. Prefer to split that area up. I would move Place a city 2S and possiblty also one 1N or 1NE of Yatta's City A.

2S of Yatta's A is a great city early game but I would likely wait for a Cap border pop to let me prebuild the deer and gems. Settle it as a 3rd or fourth city that way it will come online so fast that it won't slow our economy much at all when we settle it.

I would likely grow while building military onto all the food special tiles we have then build a settler.

Habitus you sound like you have a prediliction for doing calculations (and maybe you all think like this!?):

Can you compare what size we be, how many archers we have built, and when we have our first settler built between growing first and squeezing in a worker? The way you descibe it sounds like we would not sacrifice much growth or production building the worker due to the timing of the food specials getting hooked up.
 
It is to soon to say where all the cities should go because we need more scouting. Our first city should however be deer/wheat/gem-city. My preference is 2S of A as I explained earlier. Size 5 city with everything. City C and D are almost dead give aways but I think E is better suited a 1SW. It still grabs the sea food there and the sugar, has no overlap and 2 grassland hills. Stone city as I said should be on the plains hill or on the stone but we should decide after scouting there.
 
Placement of 2nd city
oh well, 3½ votes in favor of Habitus opinion.
I guess I'm in minority... but at least we decided: so let's do 2S from "A" spot.

Next tech
On the next tech: everybody is ok with 'mining' next as proposed by a couple of you guys, or there are alternatives ideas?

Next production
What after the first worker?

Cheers!

- yatta
 
Mining->BW for sure.
 
I'd leave it just mining for now, till we've scouted abit more. When the city is bold that means it grows to next pop, and can then work an extra tile the following turn. Had too many images with all the :hammers: and :food: icons so cut out most of them :p


My Plan

Worker 1 (56/60:hammers:), City (0/22:food:), Mining (19/78:science:)
Worker 1 (60/60:hammers:), City (0/22:food:), Mining (30/78)
Worker 2 (4/60:hammers:), City (0/22:food:), Worker 1 moves to Sheep, Mining (41/78:science:)
Worker 2 (8/60), City (0/22), Worker 1 - Sheep Pasture (1/4), Mining (52/78)
Worker 2 (12/60), City (0/22), Worker 1 - Sheep Pasture (2/4), Mining (63/78)
Worker 2 (16/60), City (0/22), Worker 1 - Sheep Pasture (3/4), Mining (74/78)
Worker 2 (22/60), City (0/22), Worker 1 - Sheep Pasture (4/4), Mining (86/78)
Archer 1 (1/25:hammers:), City (5/22), Worker 1 moves to Cows, Bronzeworking (22/187:science:)
Archer 1 (2/25), City (10/22), Worker 1 moves to Cows, Bronzeworking (36/187)
Archer 1 (3/25), City (15/22), Worker 1 - Cows Pasture (1/4), Bronzeworking (50/187)
Archer 1 (4/25), City (20/22), Worker 1 - Cows Pasture (2/4), Bronzeworking (64/187)
Archer 1 (5/25), City (25/22), Worker 1 - Cows Pasture (3/4), Bronzeworking (78/187)
Worker 2 (31/60:hammers:), City (3/24), Worker 1 - Cows Pasture (4/4), Bronzeworking (92/187)
Worker 2 (40/60), City (3/24), Worker 1 moves to Corn, Bronzeworking (106/187)
Worker 2 (49/60), City (3/24), Worker 1 - Corn Farm (1/5), Bronzeworking (120/187)
Worker 2 (58/60), City (3/24), Worker 1 - Corn Farm (2/5), Bronzeworking (134/187)
Worker 2 (67/60), City (3/24), Worker 1 - Corn Farm (3/5), Bronzeworking (148/187)
Archer 1 (13/25:hammers:), City (11/24), Worker 1 + 2 - Corn Farm (5/5), Bronzeworking (162/187)
Archer 1 (14/25), City (19/24), Worker 1 + 2 move on to Plains Hill, Bronzeworking (176/187)
Archer 1 (15/25), City (27/24), Worker 1 + 2 - Plains Hill Mine (2/4), Bronzeworking (190/187)
Archer 1 (19/25), City (12/26), Worker 1 + 2 - Plains Hill Mine (4/4), Overflow 3:science:
Archer 1 (23/25), City (21/26), Worker 1 + 2 - move to chop
Archer 1 (27/25), City (30/26), Worker 1 + 2 - chop 1E of city (1/3) + (moving)
Settler 1 (17/100), City (4/28), Worker 1 + 2 - chop (2/3) + 1N of city (1/3)
Settler 1 (52/100), City (4/28), Worker 1 + 2 - chop (3/3) + (2/3)
Settler 1 (87/100), City (4/28), Worker 1 + 2 - chop (moving) + (3/3)
Settler 1 (102/100), City (4/28), Worker 1 + 2 - chop 2N1E of city (1/3) + (moving)

The chop locations are to free up the route for the settler, it will then move on to sheep, on to sugar? (1W of gems anyway), on to settle location. Before this the Archer will have moved to settle location, since we are always ending our move inside our culture the settler is safe from barbs (have to check when they start entering culture on emperor to be certain but i think its T60ish).

Now just straight growth to Pop 3 and then settler

Worker 1 (56/60:hammers:), City (0/22:food:)
Worker 1 (60/60:hammers:), City (0/22:food:)
Archer 1 (1/25:hammers:), City (3/22:food:), Worker 1 moves to Sheep
Archer 1 (2/25), City (6/22), Worker 1 - Sheep Pasture (1/4)
Archer 1 (3/25), City (9/22), Worker 1 - Sheep Pasture (2/4)
Archer 1 (4/25), City (12/22), Worker 1 - Sheep Pasture (3/4)
Archer 1 (5/25), City (17/22), Worker 1 - Sheep Pasture (4/4)
Archer 1 (6/25), City (22/22), Worker 1 moves to Cows
Archer 1 (7/25), City (6/24), Worker 1 moves to Cows
Archer 1 (8/25), City (12/24), Worker 1 - Cows Pasture (1/4)
Archer 1 (9/25), City (18/24), Worker 1 - Cows Pasture (2/4)
Archer 1 (10/25), City (24/24), Worker 1 - Cows Pasture (3/4)
Settler 1 (11/100:hammers:), City (0/26), Worker 1 - Cows Pasture (4/4)
Settler 1 (22/100), City (0/26), Worker 1 moves to Corn
Settler 1 (33/100), City (0/26), Worker 1 - Corn Farm (1/5)
Settler 1 (44/100), City (0/26), Worker 1 - Corn Farm (2/5)
Settler 1 (55/100), City (0/26), Worker 1 - Corn Farm (3/5)
Settler 1 (66/100), City (0/26), Worker 1 - Corn Farm (4/5)
Settler 1 (79/100), City (0/26), Worker 1 - Corn Farm (5/5)
Settler 1 (92/100), City (0/26), Worker 1 - Spare
Settler 1 (105/100), City (0/26), Worker 1 - Spare

So we have a Settler (but nothing to escort it), Pop 3, 1 Worker with spare turns. If we go this way then The Wheel is likely the next tech so the spare turns would be roading to settling site.


Same Plan but heading to Corn rather than Cows after Sheep

Worker 1 (56/60:hammers:), City (0/22:food:)
Worker 1 (60/60:hammers:), City (0/22:food:)
Archer 1 (1/25:hammers:), City (3/22:food:), Worker 1 moves to Sheep
Archer 1 (2/25), City (6/22), Worker 1 - Sheep Pasture (1/4)
Archer 1 (3/25), City (9/22), Worker 1 - Sheep Pasture (2/4)
Archer 1 (4/25), City (12/22), Worker 1 - Sheep Pasture (3/4)
Archer 1 (5/25), City (17/22), Worker 1 - Sheep Pasture (4/4)
Archer 1 (6/25), City (22/22), Worker 1 moves to Corn
Archer 1 (7/25), City (6/24), Worker 1 moves to Corn
Archer 1 (8/25), City (12/24), Worker 1 - Corn Farm (1/5)
Archer 1 (9/25), City (18/24), Worker 1 - Corn Farm (2/5)
Archer 1 (10/25), City (24/24), Worker 1 - Corn Farm (3/5)
Settler 1 (7/100:hammers:), City (0/26), Worker 1 - Corn Farm (4/5)
Settler 1 (16/100), City (0/26), Worker 1 - Corn Farm (5/5)
Settler 1 (25/100), City (0/26), Worker 1 moves to Cows
Settler 1 (34/100), City (0/26), Worker 1 - Cows Pasture (1/4)
Settler 1 (43/100), City (0/26), Worker 1 - Cows Pasture (2/4)
Settler 1 (52/100), City (0/26), Worker 1 - Cows Pasture (3/4)
Settler 1 (65/100), City (0/26), Worker 1 - Cows Pasture (4/4)
Settler 1 (78/100), City (0/26), Worker 1 - Spare
Settler 1 (91/100), City (0/26), Worker 1 - Spare
Settler 1 (104/100), City (0/26), Worker 1 - Spare

Settler 1 turn later, but if we're going to A the worker is nearer the city to start roading so possible more free worker turns spent roading.
 
Popping Copper on the plains hill or under the city means I'd re-do the plan after BW finishes to see how it changed it (i think under city does very little but plains hill my speed up settler by a turn).

Also the plan is over 25 turns so if i did all of it I probably wouldn't play another turn set till near end per the suggestion of making sure the team doesn't let one or two people play all of game :)

*edit*

I'd suggest The Wheel after BW too, as i think it will get done as 2nd city is settled. If the chop at end of turn goes to a 1T archer, and then start another settler, planning on whipping it with enough overflow to 1T another archer after that to get us decent barb protection. With copper Axemen over Archer could be useful, and the worker turns shouldn't be too far off getting the roads connected fairly quickly :)
 
Must... defend... honor...





I was 100% aware that horseback riding wasn't the way to go!

I was 100% aware that you knew that, so it is always fun to pull someones leg a little ;)
 
First Turnsets
Also the plan is over 25 turns so if i did all of it I probably wouldn't play another turn set till near end per the suggestion of making sure the team doesn't let one or two people play all of game :)
An alternative might be let Zech play another session, starting the chosen expansion plan and finishing scouting, then post few screen shots to keep the whole team updated, and pass the game to you, allowing you to finish up with the plan.

Just an idea to let Zech play a bit more equal number of turns, and allow you to play again earlier. But I really don't mind, do whatever you agree between you two. :)

Then if Killroyan wants to be up next, it sounds good with me. As you see I expand quite differently, so I guess I might be uncomfortable playing this phase of the game, compared to a later one about optimizing and/or conquering. :D

Tech path
I'd suggest The Wheel after BW too
With a philo leader able to chop libraries I would keep also an early writing in high consideration for research post-BW. Actually, personally speaking, I would probably gamble chopping trees with workers while researching writing right after BW.

But I'm fine also with the wheel as well, I like the choice, since it allows to connect cities, keep workers busy, move settlers and military units faster, and also it allows few more :health: in cities hooking up food resources. And if we hook up marble ad/or stone soon or later, it is good for both planned wonders and gold failures.

I'm just proposing an alternative to 'the wheel' right after BW, in case someone wish to evaluate one. :)

By the way: any other alternative suggestion?

- yatta
 
Habitus, you are talking about moving an archer but we do need hunting and archery for that. I guess you mean a warrior or am I missing something?

And what is that with the popping copper on the plains hill?
 
The other option is to head to Oracle and use it on Philo/CoL/MC/CS/whatever tech seems best. 1600BC iirc is normally when Oracle is in danger of being lost on Emperor, but with teams i'm not 100%.

If we're isolated we need to avoid CS and Theo (so Paper isn't bulbed), Oracle Machinery, and chain bulb to Astronomy. Done right you can get Astronomy really early letting us contact other civ really early and if needed do some warring (ie kill wizard maybe)
 
We start with Archery as a free tech so no need to tech hunting (barring for the deer)

Once BW is in it will be revealed, popping = revealed in that location (and very very rarely you can get a resource appearing that wasn't there before)
 
Well I'm headed to work now, I'll chat still on iPhone but stuff like tech costs to work out timings starts to rely on memory and mine isn't so good at times :p
 
Thanks Habitus for that effort!

So If I count the turns right placing a worker before the settler delays City #2 by around 7 turns. So the comparision is 7 turns of city growth/production and one more forest standing versus a second workerand another population point. Oh and we do have the archer available 12 turns sooner to fogbust or scout too.

I suppose a worker and another population point is more valuble then an earlier city and archer.

If we go the second worker I think the wheel after bronze working to ensure we have productive things for the workers to do.

I'm still pulling for a city to the North as next city so I hope we have new screenshots and a fresh discussion once the Settler is actually built.
 
If we meet an AI up north the settling towards them would be best to try and block off all the city sites we can.

Been thinking and I don't see any need for writing atm. We haven't met anyone to open Borders with for trade routes, we don't have a good commerce site for a academy so settling the scientist would probably be the best move (thou bulbing maths for a CS oracle could work), and most city have decent tiles to work so finding a city to build a library and run the scientists isn't so easy as not counting the GPP they are only about as good as grass hills.

As for the plan we need decide what we want and then figure out best way to get it, with my plan I was thinking of getting two more cities with the workers to improve them. If our warrior is alive we could even go straight to another settler, the last chop goes into it and it will be nearly ready to 2 Pop whip
 
Writing would let us get the first Academy up faster. In isolation, that is rather important, even if we can't open borders.

I keep feeling like Mining-BW-Wheel-Pottery-Writing is probably the way to go, and is a good default unless we meet an AI very soon. Get the economic techs under our belt. If we find one or more other civs quick, then we should beeline writing, and possibly alphabet or something to trade for it. On emperor the AI doesn't always get alphabet that fast.

I think a coast city so we can send out a scout-boat is probably very important.
 
After pottery then writing may be worthwhile as the 3 place I chop in my plan are the riverside grasslands in the Capitol's BFC. Cottaging them gives us a decent commerce site for an academy. Also at 4 pop we can whip in a granary to quickly grow back to happy cap on cottages, sheep, corn, + scientists.
 
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