[Religion and Revolution]: Mod Development

[thadian]

i dont like punishing the player - ive never seen a benefit to fortifying units on the city tile because the city loses the worker which is already a punishment.

I agree with you about Conquistadors. These people aren't in your army - Hernan Cortez fought spanish soldiers like two times during the conquest of mexico. Conquistador's weren't soldiers who fought for the governor or the crown. They were mercenaries and like native mercs, shouldn't be allowed to work in cities.

 

[raystuttgart]

Ok, no problem.
I just throw it away again.

 

[raystuttgart]

@team and patners:

There is a new revision available in SVN.
Please everybody get it.

It contains:

1. Important bugfix for a CTD related to MYCP.
2. Restructuring of CyPlayerInterfaces that solves problems with generating Debug-DLL.
3. AI can sell treasures to King without Dock again, because that did throw back AI too much
(It is simply not as smart as Human and will not cheat with "Abandoning Cities" anyways.)

Please keep posting savegames if you encounter Bugs that are reproducable.

 

[thadian]

Thanks to valuable advice from several good people i have messaged, i have FINALLY figured out how to do the screenshots. I will do some experiments with getting these amazing skies into the pictures - its definitely some work but i have had some good progress.

At this point, i am going to slowly begin processing screenshots - as i finish each "group" of screenshots, the achievements will be given one final look on text. figured i would give a heads up on my progress - Eureka! <picard facepalm> <lightbulb>

 

[Schmiddie]

I have made the experience that the AI uses pioneers too little and builds/uses only little improvements (farms, plantations, mines). This "throws back" the AI. I think this is different in TAC?

I started a few "gigantic" maps - now the AI should have had enough place for a big empire and lots of colonies. But the result was different.

2 (Netherlands and Denmark) started in areas where friendly or no natives settled. They made a good job first, but after 100 or 150 rounds the natives (big tribes) declared war and now are going to wipe them out.

The other started their settlement near angry or unfriendly tribes and they had and have no chance against the natives (they still have only 2 or 3 inconsiderable colonies).

The AI was also not able to develop their economy. I'm not sure if they have problems with the complex economy of RaR? Or maybe it is the fact, that we have not adopt the massive AI cheat of TAC?

A further problem may be the strength of the natives on gigantic maps.

Did other also make this experience?

Prior to a release we should check this in more detail and maybe we can find some "adjusting screws" to strengthen the AI nations a little bit without to weaken the natives?

 

[raystuttgart]

I have made the experience that the AI uses pioneers too little and builds/uses only little improvements (farms, plantations, mines). This "throws back" the AI. I think this is different in TAC?

It should not be different than TAC.

The AI was also not able to develop their economy. I'm not sure if they have problems with the complex economy of RaR? Or maybe it is the fact, that we have not adopt the massive AI cheat of TAC?

It is probably more the 2nd.
Maybe I should put the AI cheats back to TAC level.
(I thought the European AIs might be able to live without ... )

Prior to a release we should check this in more detail and maybe we can find some "adjusting screws" to strengthen the AI nations a little bit without to weaken the natives?

Sure, if European AIs are too weak, we should do something.

Edit:
What difficulty / handicap have you been playing ?

 

[Schmiddie]

"Kundschafter" (Sorry, don't know what it is called in English in this context).

 

[raystuttgart]

"Kundschafter" (Sorry, don't know what it is called in English in this context).

It is "Explorer".
Thanks for the Info.

Ok, tomorrow I will take a look at the AI cheats again and reset them to TAC levels.

 

[raystuttgart]

@team and partners:

New revision available in SVN.

Due to the feedback of European AIs being too weak,
I have restored on pretty strong AI cheat from TAC (Free City Defender).
(The other differences were minor and made sense.)

 

[Tigranes]

Why do we have 5 European Nations on Standard map? I was thinking -- 4 for Standard, 5 for Large, 6 for Huge... Now we have 5 Europeans vs 7 Indian tribes -- which does not represent the realistic historical situation... AI European Civ actually suffers because of it on Standard maps -- things get crowded fast, Natives are very strong in TAC/RnR, Natives burn Colonies of AI, while smart Humans know what to expect and prepare against Natives much better...

 

[raystuttgart]

@team and partners:

New revision available in SVN.

Due to the feedback of training at Natives being to fast and due to the fact that we do not have increase of time for training at Natives
(which simply does not make any sense to my opinion), I have increased base training time at Natives a bit.

Thus training at a Native village will always stay equally interesting but should not feel too fast anymore.
(At a tribe with Trait "Mentor" it was really extremely short.)

 

[raystuttgart]

@team:

There are a few topics, where I would like to have some feedback.
(It does not necessarily mean, that we need to change these things for Release 1 ...)

1. Criminals / African Slaves / Native Slaves being Missionaries

We have 3 possibilities:

A. Forbid Professions Missionary for them
B. Give them heavy penalties for Profession Missionary
C. Leave it as it is

2. Mining Professions

Currently we have a separate Specialist for every Mining Profession.

We have 2 possiblities:

A. Try to have less Specialists for Mining
B. Leave it as it is

3. Natives and Attitude

Some features could get a stronger influence of Attitude on outcomes.
(Several other features with Natives already have a strong influence by Attitude)

e.g.:

A. Attitude could influence results of "Talking to Chief" (size of Gold Gifts, size of Treasures)
B. Attitude could influence time for "Training at Natives"

4. War of Independence from TAC

TAC had changed the War of Independence:

A. Royal Fleet comes in (4) increasing Waves
(Which makes everything more challenging.)

B. Man-O-Wars don't travel back and forth between New World and Europe to transport troops
(Thus destroying Ships of the King does not slow down War of Independence.)

C. Royal Fleet is much bigger
(To transport all land troops without traveling between Europe and New World several times.)

I have not adapted this, because I want to create our own improved variant of War of Independence for Release 2.
However until then, I could implement the variant of TAC as it is for Release 1 already.

So do you want to have the TAC variant for Release 1 ?

 

[Schmiddie]

1. dunno / abstention
2. Try to have less Specialists for Mining ( I would prefer 2 - one for gold, gems and silver, one for ore and stones). But please - Do not change this prior to release no. 1!
3. dunno / abstention
4. dunno / abstention ( I have never played one or another version since I never played a game until the WoI).

 

[Tigranes]

1. Forbid. Those 3 categories do not enjoy the progress of the Colonies, they try to flee, why would they bother to proselytize? Criminals cannot even train in Villages, how can they be role models? What Missionaries?
2. Miner/Special Miner is all we need.
3. Yes please! But go even further. Nothing should work at Furious level, no cooperation whatsoever, not even talking to the Chief! To avoid Native raids I was methodically killing all the Natives except the one in the Village that provides important training. After the war was over and they built a new settlement I sent my scout there and Chief was happy to welcome me with 350 gold!
4. I just love the new TAC approach to WoI! Just make waves more unpredictable. It goes 10-20-30-40% -- shuffle those sizes please or come up with more unpredictable scenarios. Common strategy is fortify just 1 single coastal capital and wipe troops sent by the king. Perhaps King can get smarter and go after inland cities sometimes...

 

[Hrvoje193]

I like smugglers idea, but realistically smugglers should also be available during revolution, cause that is perfect time for "doing business".

 

[colonialfan]

1. (A) I'm with Tigranes on this.
2. (A) I don't think we need multiple specialists for miners.
3. (A) Again I'm with Tigranes, if possible lets push it further with the natives. Afterall we are taking their land, destroying their culture and giving them smallpox, so when they are mad, I don't think any 'sweet talking' should work with them.
4. (A) Tigranes comments get my vote. I think one wave is a little ridiculous and historically inaccurate. After the battles of Lexington and Concord, the British sent out an addtional force of around 5,000 troops. When the next British wave of troops landed at New York in 1776 they numbered around 30,000.

 

[raystuttgart]

Ok, if I don't hear any objections until tonight I will:

Implement:
1. Forbid Profession Missionary for Criminals, African Slaves, Native Slaves <--- Already implemented.
2. Include War of Independence from TAC (with minimal changes of my own)
3. Block Talking to Chief, Missioning, Training, Stirring Up Natives at Attitude Furious <--- Already implemented.

Plan for Release 2:
4. Lowering Number of Mining Specialists

------------

Additional Comments:

For Release 2 it is planned anyways to enhance / improve War of Independence.
(King getting 2 Types of Ships with different UnitAIs, generally improving AI of Royal Troops, ...)

But we will have a detailled discussion about this, before I start implementing, of course.

 

[raystuttgart]

@team:

I have uploaded some changes to Profession Missionary.
(New revision available in SVN.)

1. Criminals, African Slaves and Natives Slaves cannot have that profession anymore.
2. In order to assign that profession to another Unit you must have at least a Chapel in your city
(or a higher level of religious building)

Changes for Profession Missionary is deactivated by default.

But everybody who does like that mini feature, can simply go to GlobalDefinesAlt.xml and set
USE_NEW_RULES_FOR_PROFESSION_MISSIONARY to 1.

Is that ok ?
(If not, I will remove it again.)

Please somebody else test, too.

 

[raystuttgart]

@team:

As desired I have implemented and uploaded Specific Actions not possible if Natives furious.
(New revision available in SVN.)

These actions will not be possible if the Natives are furious:

1. Talking to Chief (and getting presents)
2. Establishing a Mission
3. Stirring Up Natives
4. Training at Natives

However I did not remove the Button (for the action) in that case.
(Because players would think it is a bug.)

Instead, the button is there, but when you try to do the action you will get:
(The action will fail but you can try again, when relations have improved.)

• Warning Sound
• Red Button of Action that failed
• Red Warning Message

So in order to be able to perform these actions again you will need to improve relations again.
(By Diplomay or Trade or ...)

Is that ok ?
(If not, I will remove it again.)

Please somebody else test, too.

 

[Tigranes]

This looks so cool!

Unfortunately I cannot test this because I am playing long, very long game, already invested 48 hours in it and don't want to risk save-compatibility before I finish. "Long" means Normal speed and Standard sized Western Hemisphere map -- trying to recreate Spanish Empire with Cortes on Conquistador difficulty. Not a single Conquistador event even though I was almost constantly at war with Natives. I don't know why Normal speed feels like Epic or Marathon with RnR but progress is very slow... It is early 1700 and I finally built my third Governor's Palace...