City State Colour

[blackcatatonic]

This is very convincing, but I'm still not sold. As I said in another thread though, it's interesting (and encouraging in some ways) to look at it from this perspective.

I don't think I will believe that Italy/Venice are in until I see it.

 

[Menzies]

To reiterate the point:

- Every time that a city state has been given the same colour-type combination of a known city state, it has meant it is a replacement

There are other eccentricities, and if you wish to know about them you should read the original post, but the above is the key point and what pretty much any analysis should be based on. It's one key prediction from here is:

- Riga has replaced Ragusa

What that means is still up for interpretation.

As an amendment to the original post though, Ur appears to be light-purple, not purple, meaning that it would not be Lisbon's replacement. There is also no light-purple, maritime city state, meaning that it may be a new addition as with Sofia.

 

[Louis XXIV]

Given that, which city-states are new and of what type? One militaristic and one maritime so far? Am I missing any? I can see adding militaristic because the number falls far short. Maritime is weird to me because there are already plenty of those (and Ur still seems to me to be less than ideal for a maritime).

 

[Menzies]

Given that, which city-states are new and of what type? One militaristic and one maritime so far? Am I missing any? I can see adding militaristic because the number falls far short. Maritime is weird to me because there are already plenty of those (and Ur still seems to me to be less than ideal for a maritime).

I made the point before that the number of new city states seen is quite high, and could be suggestive or more (or about as many) as we think there should. That was even based on it being Italy added (removing Genoa, Florence, Milan, Venice and Ragusa). They may have added a number of new ones for whatever reason. Who knows. Maybe they decided that the new mechanics meant that a different distribution fit better, say 12 maritime, 12 cultural, 10 mercantile, 8 militaristic, 6 religious, who knows.

What does remain clear though is that a city state appearing with the same colour-type combination of a known one (either having their colour changed to that or a new one all together) represents a city state being replaced, as it has meant that, and only that, since the release of vanilla. City states being shifted was only done to replace other city states (and that was only in Gods & Kings). As we know that total city state numbers hasn't been constant, all we're really left with that is solid is this colour-type replacement observation. I guess if we're describing city state hypotheses or theories, this should be called the law of city state colour-type replacement.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

Does anyone else notice thatn when they replace the City States, all they change is the name? (and obviously civilopedia entry?)

I mean, I believe Oslo and Copenhagen were replaced by Sydney and Quebec City, both with the same colour and same city style (i.e Art Style). That being European

Bratislava replaced Warsaw, and I am undobutely assuming it's gonna use European style.

Panam City replaces Rio de Janeiro, which I assume had American city style..

Lisbon is where it gets tricky, but like pointed out, Ur is not a direct replacement for the city (ligther colour) and Ur is not European (while Lisbon is).

 

[Menzies]

Does anyone else notice thatn when they replace the City States, all they change is the name? (and obviously civilopedia entry?)

I mean, I believe Oslo and Copenhagen were replaced by Sydney and Quebec City, both with the same colour and same city style (i.e Art Style). That being European

Bratislava replaced Warsaw, and I am undobutely assuming it's gonna use European style.

Panam City replaces Rio de Janeiro, which I assume had American city style..

Lisbon is where it gets tricky, but like pointed out, Ur is not a direct replacement for the city (ligther colour) and Ur is not European (while Lisbon is).

This is a very good observation. An extremely good one in fact. It certainly seems to have passed me by in all this analysis.

Now, I'd make the point that city states are more than just a name, a colour and a small bit of music, they actually have personality values attached. I never actually thought of comparing these though.

I would first point out though that Sydney replaced Copenhagen for the Danes' DLC, although Stockholm and Copenhagen shared a colour-type combination. This did however, happen a couple of times in vanilla, although Gods & Kings has no two city states sharing colour-type combination. I would again at this point that every time that a city state has been given (whether a known city state with a changed colour-type combination, ie. Lhasa and Belgrade, or an entirely new one) a known colour-type combination, it has been a replacement.

Here are the ones for Oslo, Copenhagen, Quebec City and Sydney:

Oslo
Type: Maritime
Colour: Blue
Style: European
Naval: 8
Growth: 8

Copenhagen
Type: Maritime
Colour: Middle Blue
Style: European
Naval: 8
Growth: 8

Quebec City
Type: Maritime
Colour: Blue
Style: European
Naval: 8
Growth: 8

Sydney
Type: Maritime
Colour: Middle Blue
Style: European
Naval: 8
Growth: 8

I would also point out that Naval and Growth does vary between city states, these just happen to be the same. I could show more examples, but let's be honest, from some of the responses (and certain threads) it's clear that most who saw it (or responded to it at least) didn't bother reading that wall of text, and there's no sense in overloading another post with information.

Another interesting point, in Sydney and Quebec City's city state entries are some very subtle bits of code... Very subtle. From Sydney's:

<Civilopedia>TXT_KEY_CIV5_COPENHAGEN_TEXT</Civilopedia>

From Quebec City's:

<Civilopedia>TXT_KEY_CIV5_OSLO_TEXT</Civilopedia>

Hmmm... Anyhow, the mechanism of replacement is quite obvious, and has been observed in all cases. Whilst we know that the total number of city states, and the relative distribution may alter, we have only ever observed a city state gaining a known city-type combination in the case that it is a replacement. As such, this is the only solid law of city states that we have, and the only solid base to speculate from.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

Menzies, how about you check out if the other City States have the same thing? Specifically God and Kings city states that replace old cities states, liek Vienna.. and.. err.. yeah.

P.S - You made a typo and wrote Stockholm instead of Copenhagen when you listed the 4 city states and how similiar they are.

 

[Menzies]

Menzies, how about you check out if the other City States have the same thing? Specifically God and Kings city states that replace old cities states, liek Vienna.. and.. err.. yeah.

P.S - You made a typo and wrote Stockholm instead of Copenhagen when you listed the 4 city states and how similiar they are.

Copenhagen was no typo. Sydney came in to replace Copenhagen when Denmark was added (which included Oslo) as DLC. Stockholm was replaced as part of the Gods & Kings expansion and didn't have a direct replacement as such (read the original post for further explanation). I did specially point this out in the previous post:

I would first point out though that Sydney replaced Copenhagen for the Danes' DLC, although Stockholm and Copenhagen shared a colour-type combination.

As for other city states, the known city states that replaced others which were removed (Lhasa and Belgrade for Vienna and Edinburgh) kept their original civ text keys. The following had text keys of replaced civs:

Sydney - Copenhagen
Quebec City - Oslo
Kathmandu - Seoul

That is, it was seen for the DLC replacements, but not for the expansion.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

Oslo
Type: Maritime
Colour: Blue
Style: European
Naval: 8
Growth: 8

Stockholm
Type: Maritime
Colour: Middle Blue
Style: European
Naval: 8
Growth: 8

Quebec City
Type: Maritime
Colour: Blue
Style: European
Naval: 8
Growth: 8

Sydney
Type: Maritime
Colour: Middle Blue
Style: European
Naval: 8
Growth: 8

Should it be Oslo, Stockholm, Quebec City and Sydney? Because I was refering to that. you said Stockholm and not Copenhagen.

 

[Menzies]

Should it be Oslo, Stockholm, Quebec City and Sydney? Because I was refering to that. you said Stockholm and not Copenhagen.

Sorry, it should say Copenhagen, not Stockholm. My mistake.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

Not sure if you guys know, but Ragusa does NOT share Riga's colour... I'm sure you know that though.

 

[Menzies]

Not sure if you guys know, but Ragusa does NOT share Riga's colour... I'm sure you know that though.

It does. If you feel you feel it doesn't justify yourself.

It would be very convenient if it doesn't though, I really don't want Venice or Italy in, so I'm very interesting now.

Edit: If it is me mistaking the colour, it certainly is either Cyan or Middle_Cyan. If it's middle Cyan (as I thought), then it is Ragusa, if not, it is Venice. That really doesn't change much, although it does strengthen Italy's case, and makes me feel stupid for getting the colour wrong.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

So, if we wanted to eliminate Jakarta, we would need to find a new city-state with Gray color in the Maritime catagory, right?

And a New Light Purple Militaristic city-state would replace Hanoi, right?

 

[Menzies]

So, if we wanted to eliminate Jakarta, we would need to find a new city-state with Gray color in the Maritime catagory, right?

And a New Light Purple Militaristic city-state would replace Hanoi, right?

Exactly...

I can't wait for new screenshots, I'm actually more excited for city states than anything else at this point.

 

[Aaron90495]

Incredibly impressed by your analysis as always, Menzies. This looks pretty thorough, and I'm now pretty convinced Italy/Venice is in.