K-Mod: Far Beyond the Sword

[noto2]

Charles I play a difficulty level that has me losing 3/4 of my games, can you say the same? The fact is that some wonders are difficult to get and others much less so. The temple of artemis, the pyramids, the great lighthouse, these are difficult to get because the AI is competitive in building them. The parthenon and great library are less so because the AI does not usually go that tech path and the great library is cheap. Is Angkor Wat difficult to get? I don't think so...if it was important to you to get it I think it would be relatively easy to get compared to the other wonders in the game.
Anyway, you never addressed what I said. If you want to buff priests then what are you going to do about the Angkor Wat?

 

[Charles555nc]

Ya I play emperor and I lose about 3/4ths of my games, then again I don't go around calling things "easy" either. I noticed you didnt mention your difficulty (not that im competing with you, theres alot better players out there than me).

You should know that if you rush one thing, you may be missing out on other things you shouldve rushed for the long run. People complain that getting early religion is too easy in Kmod, then again you cant grow cities without agriculture, sailing, or animal husbandry. And theres often a neighbor to fight.

I dont consider 2 hammer 1 gold priests to be a problem, at all. Ankor wat is a pretty meh wonder anyway. At emperor difficulty I can almost never afford to go representation either because heriditary rule is needed for happiness.

If you buffed priests to be a base of 1 hammer 1 gold +1 espionage (priests were some of the first spies) or 1 hammer 1 gold +1 culture (priests spread culture in history), I really dont think that the game would change much at all, other than make priests a little more used.

 

[Chronis]

I agree that it isn't easy to directly compare K-Mod to unmodded BtS by just looking at the changelog... It's something a bunch of people have asked for, and I don't want to do it. Someone else could do that just as easily as me.

If you help Ripple01 and Glider1 get the merge of revDCM and K-Mod up and running (something that requires programming skills far beyond mine) I will write you up a nice
professional looking changelog that makes it easy to compare K-Mod to unmodded BTS.

Last I heard they were very close
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=12498248&postcount=3698

Just having problems with a few bugs.

 

[Charles555nc]

Karadoc,

I have been wanting to trade with Mao Zedong for forever, he has part of my christian religion, but hasnt converted yet, and is pleased with me, but for more than 100 turns wont trade techs with me.

Is this a bug?

 

[noto2]

Charles, ah, well when you put it that way I guess it makes sense, adding 1 culture or 1 EP would be fine for priests. I never thought of the need since the only reason I hire priests is to generate a prophet when I want a shrine, but that would be fine for balance, imo. I play Kmod, emperor, random personalities, and no diplo victory. Random personalities makes the game much harder than you think, I would argue it is worth at least 1 difficulty level, perhaps even more. The reason is because very high level players will base their entire strategy around the diplomacy spreadsheet. If you know the inner mechanics of the game you will know exactly what you need to do to get leader X to be bribed to war against leader Y, and you'll know when you are at risk of being attacked and when not. This is especially true in the base game, less so in Kmod. The base game is laughable in this regard... a player can use diplomacy to guarantee themselves safety. They can sit there and wonderspam and defend their cities with 1 warrior each, so long as their neighbour won't declare on them based on the diplomacy spreadsheet. I didn't want to play a game like that so I opted to play with "random personalities", and it makes things much more difficult because I can't predict AI behaviour at all. I can be attacked at any time, although it's less likely when the leader is friendly with me. So it's difficult to gauge what difficulty I play at.

 

[Charles555nc]

I do random personalities as well


For those talking about slavery being 2 strong, if Karadoc gave the forge a +1 hammer base, do you think that once a city got a forge that newer cities would less reliant on slavery for making buildings and units?

 

[Haydar]

This should have been released as an official patch. Thank you so much.

 

[noto2]

Ah so then you know all about random personalities, oh boy, diplomacy is MUCH more difficult

 

[Gamer999]

Hi Karadoc, sorry for misleading you with the global warming because it seems that it is working as intented in all maps indeed. However I still think that when playing late game scenarios an option to disable it would be nice because often cities might be differently placed and the population density with factories and power makes games different in maps like earth. Of course it's out of the main game category but it's just a suggestion.

Great going.

Edit: What I mean with scenarios when cities are placed in predefined spots for example.^

 

[Dumanios]

I like this mod, but I'd like to set the diplomacy sidebar to show civ names instead of leader names, like in RFC and BUG mod.

 

[Charles555nc]

For a possible buff for serfdom, why not include horses, pigs, sheep and cows to the +1 gold list.

 

[noto2]

So I've had yet another game where I got dogpiled by the AI on my continent for no reason that I can figure out. I'm not even close to the AI's, I don't even share a border with anyone and I didn't adopt a state religion, but both AI's closest to me attacked. The funny thing is I'm playing Sitting Bull and my dog soldiers easily dealt with the archer invasions, but still. The oddest thing is that when I met Napoleon he was immediately 'annoyed' with me and this changed to cautious after about 2 turns for no reason I can figure out. The same thing happened with Cathy. What is this mechanic that causes the AI to be immediately annoyed and what does it mean? Is it the reason I'm getting dogpiled?
Save file attached

 

[Manco Capac]

So I've had yet another game where I got dogpiled by the AI on my continent for no reason that I can figure out. I'm not even close to the AI's, I don't even share a border with anyone and I didn't adopt a state religion, but both AI's closest to me attacked. The funny thing is I'm playing Sitting Bull and my dog soldiers easily dealt with the archer invasions, but still. The oddest thing is that when I met Napoleon he was immediately 'annoyed' with me and this changed to cautious after about 2 turns for no reason I can figure out. The same thing happened with Cathy. What is this mechanic that causes the AI to be immediately annoyed and what does it mean? Is it the reason I'm getting dogpiled?
Save file attached

From what I'm looking in K-mod SDK, I see a big part of the original code section for attitude incrementation was kept mostly intact. Karadoc added as a comment:

"most of this function has been moved from CvPlayerAI::AI_getAttitudeVal"

Meaning I think he hasn't touched it.

Thus, from the limited knowledge for now (still looking at the same time), the ANNOYED attitude you see may come from original hidden diplo modifiers changing with score. There is one always positive, so that one doesn't concern us. But the first one is about how is your score level compared to the AI. Since early game, it is subjected to many variations, thus you may see their attitude flickers like temper-tantrum children. I don't recall such thing with Cathy, but Monty...oh yes! Probably they were too busy on unit spamming that you went over them in score through techs or perhaps wonders (I don't know yet) and that led to hidden diplo hit.

Still, I can't open your game yet (I don't have K-mod installed on my laptop), so it's a blind assumption.

BTW, don't forget to reply to TMIT. It doesn't matter the answer. But a clear answer will dispel the uncertaintly. Noto pls. *Dolan*

 

[Cruel]

So I've had yet another game where I got dogpiled by the AI on my continent for no reason that I can figure out. I'm not even close to the AI's, I don't even share a border with anyone and I didn't adopt a state religion, but both AI's closest to me attacked. The funny thing is I'm playing Sitting Bull and my dog soldiers easily dealt with the archer invasions, but still. The oddest thing is that when I met Napoleon he was immediately 'annoyed' with me and this changed to cautious after about 2 turns for no reason I can figure out. The same thing happened with Cathy. What is this mechanic that causes the AI to be immediately annoyed and what does it mean? Is it the reason I'm getting dogpiled?
Save file attached

It is precisely why I suggested the k-mod incorporating this component:

Show Hidden Attitude Mod:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=335966

There are five hidden AI attitude factors that can affect your relations. This mod reveals all of them.
No more wondering why your "+5" neighbor is only cautious with you!

• First Impression: A combination of iBaseAttitude, iBasePeaceWeight, iPeaceWeightRand, iWarmongerRespect, and iAttitudeChange.
• Team Size: The AIs don't like permanent alliances or unbalanced teams. Unless they are on the best team!
• High Score: Several AIs care about who has the better score.
• Low Score: AIs are more willing to cooperate if you are both on the bottom half of the scoreboard.
• Losing War: Losing a war makes AIs mad.

 

[Manco Capac]

Wow, I spotted on the right stuff! Didn't know K-mod kept so much of the original BTS, although it is a passive mechanics that doesn't really need change. What were needed for a change were AI actions.

Again, I think you had a high score.

 

[noto2]

Ah, thank you, I had seen that before but forgot about it, thanks for the reminder. Btw, I'm sorry, reply to TMIT about what?

 

[Charles555nc]

Noto: Ive noticed I can get dogpiled early if I get "too good" a start.

One game I had my capital on a plains hill so I rushed a worker on city size 1 while I tech rushed pottery for cottages and had plenty of floodplains (and only had one expansion city though).

Boom, archer invasion by two different civs. Game over.

 

[Manco Capac]

Ah, thank you, I had seen that before but forgot about it, thanks for the reminder. Btw, I'm sorry, reply to TMIT about what?

Succession game. You're supposed to have received a message just like me.

 

[Manco Capac]

Noto: Ive noticed I can get dogpiled early if I get "too good" a start.

One game I had my capital on a plains hill so I rushed a worker on city size 1 while I tech rushed pottery for cottages and had plenty of floodplains (and only had one expansion city though).

Boom, archer invasion by two different civs. Game over.

Dogpile is not really the term. That would be they concerted to go against you, which obviously doesn't happen around 3000 BC or 2000 BC. Dogpiling starts with Alphabet.

 

[noto2]

oh I see, didn't even notice the PM heh heh