Tradition's 4 cities opening

[The Pilgrim]

There have been many discussions about the patch, all posts since November (?) are dealing with post patch situation. This strategy still works. But it won't work if you take it as a strict build/tech order rather than a set of general guide lines. Everything in this game is situational. Sometimes (often post patch and often on low/mid levels regardless the patch) your opponents don't have cash, sometimes you don't have a good enough land, sometimes both, sometimes you spawn isolated and sometimes something else happens and messes up with your plans.

I suggest to open your own thread, post some screenshots and a save with description of what you did and let others share their insights.

 

[Sabertooth]

I think you've hit the nail on the head. I've been following the strategy in the OP rather slavishly, thinking it was kind of a step for step blueprint on how to steamroll the game. It might have been that as well at one point, but not anymore.

 

[ScantilyCladLad]

i duno i think u guys are taking it too literally. There is a lot of things that need to be tweaked based on the starting conditions and surrounding area/opponents.

Just use it as a general framework and its great, it basically took me from emperor -> competing on deity

 

[Autokrator48]

Is there a way to adapt this strategy if only 1-2 resources are available and if one of them is sea-based? I've tried this opening a few times on Emperor/Immortal, but usually what ends up happening is that I only have one resource to sell; and usually no ones has the money for it so I can't get my settlers working, effectively blocking me from making more than 1-2 cities. :/

I really don't like reloading, as I feel it's kind of like cheating.

 

[JothHago]

Never had that problem, civ engine usually allows starting location to have 2-3 luxury resources around starting position, even if it means using 2-3 turns to find the best starting spot.

 

[Autokrator48]

Never had that problem, civ engine usually allows starting location to have 2-3 luxury resources around starting position, even if it means using 2-3 turns to find the best starting spot.

Perhaps it's just really bad luck, but it happened to me like 3-4 times in a row

 

[JothHago]

Next time before re-rolling, scout around the area. I've played a substantial amount of games, and a lot of the regulars will say it as well, that usually you have bad starts in regards to terrain, but in terms of resources, just have to scout around.

 

[Autokrator48]

Next time before re-rolling, scout around the area. I've played a substantial amount of games, and a lot of the regulars will say it as well, that usually you have bad starts in regards to terrain, but in terms of resources, just have to scout around.

Well I usually scout around, but often what happens is that I find tons of more copies of the resource I already have, and perhaps 1 new in a single area near an AI, but thing is if I get that resource, which I can, the AI will usually DoW me, making getting that resource useless since I won't have enough to defend myself by that point, I will lose an AI to sell it to (I normally find 1-2 AIs in the beginning - I play on Large Continent); and it all goes downhill from there.

And what should I go for if some of the resources are sea-based?

Outside of those particular scenarios, however, the strategy is good.

Also, Scout is the first thing I get.

 

[Justice1337]

There have been many discussions about the patch, all posts since November (?) are dealing with post patch situation. This strategy still works. But it won't work if you take it as a strict build/tech order rather than a set of general guide lines. Everything in this game is situational. Sometimes (often post patch and often on low/mid levels regardless the patch) your opponents don't have cash, sometimes you don't have a good enough land, sometimes both, sometimes you spawn isolated and sometimes something else happens and messes up with your plans.

I suggest to open your own thread, post some screenshots and a save with description of what you did and let others share their insights.

Yeah, I revisit this thread myself now and then and have basically come to this conclusion. This thread gives guidelines and not a build order. My only remaining issue is this...

Provided the guidelines are 1) sell early luxuries, regardless of unhappiness and 2) buy Settlers whenever possible rather than building them, then how much does this thread have to do with Tradition social policies?

Those two have pretty much become Civ gospel, but so arguably have Tradition SP's. And so people come here, can't implement those SP's to the letter, but still find themselves swimming in a sea of advice from more experienced players that this is the preferred opening on Deity.

In some place there should be analysis to catalog what works, where, why, and how much it has to do with SP choices. That's what a guide to a Deity-level opening would look like. Absent that, there comes a point where the risks of oversimplification and the weight of obsolete experience outweigh the surviving utility of an accepted way to play.

Case in point, a lot of players still come here as their first stop when first taking on Deity, instead of posting their attempts, being persistent, and asking for specific advice in the way Pligrim above and most every other top-level poster would recommend is approprite right now. A lot do that as well, but many are still confused by the idea that there could be a one-stop-shop or an all-purpose guide that serves everywhere.

 

[Tabarnak]

Yeah, I revisit this thread myself now and then and have basically come to this conclusion. This thread gives guidelines and not a build order. My only remaining issue is this...

Provided the guidelines are 1) sell early luxuries, regardless of unhappiness and 2) buy Settlers whenever possible rather than building them, then how much does this thread have to do with Tradition social policies?

Because Liberty had take so much place before GnK. And after some testings, it was obvious that the Tradition tree was the perfect fit for peaceful and science focused games, though the original idea was to build the most productive cities. So it was time for Tradition to regain some noble stories

Liberty was always be the #1 tree for any kind of victories, even when Landed Elite was op before they changed it(some months after release of vanilla). Liberty's biggest advantages was the free settler from your 2nd policy and free gp who doesnt delay your 2nd gp. It was incredibly strong.

Liberty is stronger for dom. victories because you can keep your early gold to rush buy and upgrade units instead of settlers/workers. Just make sure to keep the train rolling through eras.

 

[Buccaneer]

Long Live This Thread! How soon for the next one?

 

[Unresolved]

We should close this thread out in style or something . It's the thread that broke G&K after all.

 

[Txurce]

Yeah, Tabarnak - let's see you do it again!

 

[Tabarnak]

Yeah, Tabarnak - let's see you do it again!

Hehe well i already started BNW and everything is more scarce(AI is also less angry and less powerful)! There will be specific strategies for all trees but i'm working on a 3 Trad cities start right now

 

[JorshRod]

Hehe well i already started BNW and everything is more scarce(AI is also less angry and less powerful)! There will be specific strategies for all trees but i'm working on a 3 Trad cities start right now

I've found that trying to do this on BNW, I was having a very hard time keeping up with happiness once I founded my fourth city. I was slowing growth intentionally, building all the happiness buildings I could, and was hovering around -5 to -9 happiness around turn 120. I am starting again and going to focus on 3 cities and slower growth.

 

[Tabarnak]

*SPOILERS* (BNW)

Spoiler :

Here is a little preview of what i'm playing with under Tradition. Standard speed, pangea, emperor. It's a very good land with 2 DoFed civs befure the turn 45. Just watch at which speed cities are growing right now...food trades!

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

(Edit) : Only 8 turns later...i'm close to be ready for the NC

Spoiler :

Facts :

-You can sell ambassies for 1 gpt
-You can sell a group of 3 horses or iron for 4 gpt, making 6 iron tiles very valuable early on
-You can sell a lux for 6 gpt

Conclusions :

I wan to prioritize horses and iron over lux techs outside mining. The idea is to get maximum benefits from civs as early as possible. Since they rarely get over 6 gpt i need to sell horses and iron to finance the expansion.

It's hard to get a DoF with a civ and i will probably focusing on gpt deals most of the time. But this is my best start so far

 

[EEE_BOY]

early food is too powerful, I expect the food trade cut by half in a future balance patch, the late hammer is ok though.

You are using land trade route, imagine what a cargo ship can do

 

[Blicero]

It was all in vain, however. Before I could move my settler two tiles I discovered that the Ottomans had settled not one, but two cities (!) directly around me completely blocking my way forward and stealing the luxuries I had hoped to use to continue my development, leaving me with a sliver of seacoast to my east and a vast, luxury-free jungle at least six tiles deep to my south.

So I gave up in frustration. Again. Like I said, I can't get this strategy to work at all.

So, my observation here is that you're losing sight of the forest in the trees. I've been spending all my time lately honing the skill which I think you should: Adaptability. This start you describe is part of the RNG aspect of the game. Once you roll a map, anything can happen. And the best players adapt to any situation rather than give up at what they think is an impossible execution of a bespoke and highly premeditated strategy.

It's kind of like use the force, Luke. The goal here is to blow up the Death Star. The goal is not to shoot two torpedoes into a womprat-sized hole while avoiding the three TIE fighters on your tail. That is the Situation.

Your start sounds very unlucky (and also very aggressive given you said you were playing King?). But it's not the end of the world. The goal of T's guide was to set yourself up for the mid-game with a solid foundation of science & production in a network of 4 cities. You're trying to build that from scratch every time. What Suleiman has just done is build it for you. What I would do is plop a library in your capital and then bee-line construction while you build 6-7 archers and a couple of spearmen / warriors. Once you get 3 archers or so, click the DoW so you start weakening his force and leveling up your units. But be careful not to lose any...

At construction upgrade everything into CB and start getting your 4 cities this way. Also too they're sure to have a nice collection of buildings in them, and a nice perk is that the puppeted cities won't interfere with the NC delivery.

What's interesting is that if you watch some of the recent Diety LPs, they follow this guide pretty loosely and sometimes not a all.

 

[Paradigne]

I haven't had the time to play a full game, but I have started a new one each night.

The last game, Assyria plopped there third city right next to my capital before I could even build a settler (scout, shrine, worker, settler). It wasn't a terrible location, just pretty bad production.

Oh - and their capital was on the other side of a standard continent.

 

[Blkbird]

*SPOILERS* (BNW)

Conclusions :

I wan to prioritize horses and iron over lux techs outside mining. The idea is to get maximum benefits from civs as early as possible. Since they rarely get over 6 gpt i need to sell horses and iron to finance the expansion.

It's hard to get a DoF with a civ and i will probably focusing on gpt deals most of the time. But this is my best start so far

I get a bit confused on the language regarding your resource priority - could you please clarify it?

And what's your tech order for this start?