Any map where you can really use triremes and galleasses?

[TurboJ]

As per headline, I like to play in the old eras and on many maps triremes and galleasses can be completely useless. You can't get a fighting position if there is only one tile of shallow water on the shoreline. And if your enemy is further away and another AI has claimed that one tile of shore in your way, then you can't get to the target (especially if you don't still have civil service).

Any ideas? Maybe some map settings would allow this...
I love the map on the 'Fall of Rome' scenario, but I would like a map I could actually explore.

Or maybe there's a mod that increases the width of shallow shore water?

*sorry, accidentally on the wrong sub forum but could not delete*

 

[Wodan]

I mostly use triremes for sea resource defense against barbs. Making one trireme, then promoting it with sea+1 and extra sight upgrades to an excellent caravel to scout the planet.

Galleasses, I don't understand your complaint at all. They are terrific units whether to defend or attack. If you're DOWed, you can use them to snipe at the invading army so that once it gets to your city you have a much easier time. Also, note that you can have a Galleas AND a siege unit in your city, giving you THREE bombardment attacks against the invaders. It's like a special ability saying "You can have 2 siege units in your cities."

On attack, same thing. A defending city can only hit one of your units, so as many Galleasses you send in gives you that many more attacking siege units to take the city down.

 

[Loucypher]

His problem is moreso that they are limited in range rather then anything else.
In that case, Small Continents Plus is a good map. It allows circumnavigation of the world in shallow waters, tends to have plenty of waterways for your shallow-water ships to navigate...yeah, it's a good bet.

 

[joncnunn]

Any water based map (large island, small island, etc.) will mean you need a couple of Triremes to explore.
Try to get them back shortly after Astronomy so you can upgrade to Caravels ASAP.

Galleasses : the main point of building these is that it's much cheaper to build these and upgrade to Frigates than to build Frigates directly.
Frigates will be highly useful taking over any enemy coastal city. And are a must if serious naval combat is expected.

 

[George Abitbol]

Galleasses are quite fragile, but with range promotion or logistics (easy if the city has barracks+armory) they are devastating against cities, as they'll be untouchable. And they do a decent job for defense, because they can be stacked inside a coastal city with another land range unit.

If you're looking for a good map, I suggest you the Communitas map script (find it on steam), I talked about it on a other topic few minutes ago. Two continents, with tons of small islands, inland seas with strategic straights, and a lot of shallow waters for your galleasses.

 

[TurboJ]

Thanks, people! My goal would be to wage naval war more flexibly in the old eras (playing epic or marathon) so it's as much a question of shallow sea paths' width as it is of their lenght.
I haven't really seen many maps where you would get these shallower seas such as is on the Fall of Rome scenario.

The Small Continents Plus is one of my favourites. Maybe I will experiment with it setting world age to 3 billion years + large quantity of sea...

 

[klaskeren]

sure, scout with trieremes and use them to take cities, galleas are just like bad frigates, but they get to job done if u know how to use them, allowing for a faster victory

 

[peddroelm]

is less about the map and more about the civ IMO

Polynesia can do great with ocean faring galleas fleet (Honor opening to get range then logistics faster) .. Without ability to enter (shortcut + attack from) ocean tiles it will be hard to take cities with galleas alone in 99% of the maps ..

the other one IMO are the ottomans - with them I think one plan could be to flood triremes and beeline caravel tech .. Mass upgrade, DOW a neighboring naval power and take over their fleet thus becoming THE naval power ..

Byzantium can use 1,2 dromon for barb duty or could mass them (beeline frigate tech) but that rarely allows to also found a religion ..

 

[Ieldra]

My experience with triremes and galeasses is that they are very useful for early exploration and barbarian hunting on map types like "Small Continents", but are seriously hampered by AI shelf territory combined with the unavailability of Open Border treaties in the early game. If the only way to avoid your coastal ships getting stuck behind enemy territory is going to war, it's usually better to keep them at home, and the maintenance means that it's often more cost-efficient in the long run to dismiss all but two or three and build caravels when they become available. Even as the Ottomans, where you can easily maintain a large fleet, I didn't find lots of use for them throughout the Medieval era. The coastlines were explored, barbarians were mostly wiped out in the area reachable, there were no ocean-faring enemies so basically all I needed was two of each to guard my coastlines.

 

[TurboJ]

I see your points, but I'm wondering if there would be a map that would suit my idea of early domination on marathon. I enjoy the old eras and those units, but the problem of early naval warfare is that the shallow sea tiles are too limited. For this reason I would like to find a map where there were broader shallow sea areas, so I could enjoy things like quinqremes and galleasses more. I don't think it's realistic how most maps limit the early ships to a single tile at the shore, where historially, there have been quite extensive fleets and big naval battes in the classical times, in the mediterranean. That's what I would like to see. Then maybe Carthage also felt like 'the' naval power.

So I'm mostly looking for immersion and fun here, I do understand some of the strategic concerns and trying to win on the higher levels.. I just want a good, realistic early-game map

 

[Ieldra]

I don't think there is a standard map type that reliably creates maps that suit your preferences. I have played some very interesting Small Continents maps with landmasses separated by extended shelf regions, where you could find your way to many interesting places early in the game with little hindrance from enemies' borders or deep ocean. There have been moments when I thought "Eh, never thought you could get *here* with a trireme". However, you aren't guaranteed to have that. You might as well end up on an island surrounded by ocean together with one other civilization.

 

[sherbz]

Ignore the standard game and play a scenario

 

[klaskeren]

I see your points, but I'm wondering if there would be a map that would suit my idea of early domination on marathon. I enjoy the old eras and those units, but the problem of early naval warfare is that the shallow sea tiles are too limited. For this reason I would like to find a map where there were broader shallow sea areas, so I could enjoy things like quinqremes and galleasses more. I don't think it's realistic how most maps limit the early ships to a single tile at the shore, where historially, there have been quite extensive fleets and big naval battes in the classical times, in the mediterranean. That's what I would like to see. Then maybe Carthage also felt like 'the' naval power.

So I'm mostly looking for immersion and fun here, I do understand some of the strategic concerns and trying to win on the higher levels.. I just want a good, realistic early-game map

small islands/archipelago i think

 

[Cromagnus]

Archipelago for sure. Galleas are at their best in this map type because there's more total shallow water. In my experience at least. Small islands can still have very large (impassable) areas of deep water. However, on every map type you will most likely only be able to attack a city with 1 or 2 triremes at most, and 3-4 galleas at most. But, like klaskeren says, once you learn to use them optimally, they're quite effective. Triremes not so much. I use them like horsemen, to swoop in and capture a city at zero strength. Otherwise they're useless after like 0AD.

Low sea level helps increase the amount of shallow water, but it doesn't widen it. Nothing does, TMK.

 

[Buccaneer]

Civilization is designed for the breadth and diversity of history. If you want to focus on a particular era with its units, play a scenario instead. Paradise Found could come closest of the packaged scenarios; there should be user-made scenarios focusing on ancient/classical naval warfare.

 

[ravenmagus]

Archipelagos are a great map for Galleas because nearly everything is connected by shallow water (..usually) and pretty much everyone's going to be coastal. Venice can easily conquer most of the world in the early ages with their Great Galleas.

 

[dojoboy]

The small continents plus and continents plus maps offer a great variety.

 

[Buccaneer]

Most of the time I play Small Continents with Low Seas.

 

[Crafty Bison]

tiny islands, low seas.

 

[zukenft]

the fantasy map script should have that option. although the script creates too much tundra areas for my liking, and it often have a 'new world' continent that doesn't have any luxuries.