Auric as avatar simply sucks and is not worth of hassling. Hint - no blitz promo.

Since its movement has been increased from 4 to 7, Blitz would be far too dominant in this unit. I did not see as flavorful to have the God of Winter resorting to thousands of melee attacks in order to decimate entire armies. It's not like Auric is without options for killing many units, though.

snowfall is avalable to many units, ironically you simply do not need so much strenght after snowfall, but multiple killing opportunity aka blitz.

ExtraModMod Features said:
Auric Ascended gets +10 Ice Affinity. Gets 4 first strikes. Causes collateral damage (60%). Movement increased from 4 to 7. Resurrects in the capital when killed. Ignores city defenses when attacking. Gets March as a free promotion. Can cast Greater Slow. Can cast Animate Frostlings.

Besides having a greater range, Greater Snowfall is the only snowfall without a damage cap. A single attack from a unit with monstruous strenght along with 60% collateral, followed by a Greater Snowfall means that Auric can kill many units in a single tile. Since it now resurrects and has an increased movement speed, you can freely use Auric as a nuke as long as you are sure that the enemy does not have the Godslayer.

Bear also in mind that, although it is still not implemented, in ExtraModMod it is intended to give the Illians the victory as soon as they have Auric, and no other player controls the Godslayer. I hope to have this feature implemented in 0.5.0.

Although I do not intend to add Blitz to Auric for the reasons given above, feel free to suggest any other possible improvements.
 
Auric's Snowfall is actually a different spell from the standard one, and significantly more powerful (Greater Snowfall, range 2, doesn't affect own units, damage averages 80% and max 100%). And if you don't need much strength to finish off the enemy...just carry around some extra tier 3 units to finish them off? Sure it means you can't solo as him, but I've never seen that as his "thing" anyway - I don't see Auric ever getting his hands dirty himself tbh, I'd expect him to just sit back and blast away.
Honestly, the only change I would make is potentially increasing healing or healing after attack.
Crosspost: I certainly wouldn't improve him from the EMM version. I think that may go a bit far tbh - my concept is that he basically makes your stack impossible to beat (unless they have the Godslayer) meaning you can advance irresistibly. This renders it an I Win (as long as I don't face the Godslayer) setup, but not an instant win - the enemy has time to prepare and try to resist. That setup looks like you could just charge Auric off on his own to conquer the world (and fast too) which is an implementation I don't think I like.
 
honestly, him just being immortal to all but the Godslayer is enough imho ....

being 30 str +20 ice str +10 ice affinity (illians start with one), even at just 4 move + flying (for 5 total move) its enough.

We don't need this excess of 4 first strikes or 7 moves imho. Let me think on it for a bit though. Giving him 20 range paradrop from an Illian city might be a worthy addition .... and I suppose depending on circumstance, the nature of
 
it seems that the stigmata promotion doesn't work , the units have it doesn't benefit from the counter(half the counter bonus)
Also, some of the techs which i haven't research have beakers already in it.(seems it happens after open border)
 
honestly, him just being immortal to all but the Godslayer is enough imho ....

Where does the Godslayer come from? Is that a scenario?

it seems that the stigmata promotion doesn't work , the units have it doesn't benefit from the counter(half the counter bonus)
Also, some of the techs which i haven't research have beakers already in it.(seems it happens after open border)

I don't know about the stigmata promotion yet, however I do agree the techs seem different. I wasn't looking for a pattern, but there were times I could research a tech in 1 turn, or only a handful of turns, when it should have taken me the normal research time. I don't know where I was getting the research points into the techs. Figured it was part of the mod somehow.

Also, The Luichurp cast their world spell on turn one (Luichurp really need help LOL), and no barbarian leaders spawned. No acheron, orthus, etc. Only the AC leaders spawned (yersinia, etc.).

The AI is better at keeping Basium and Hyborem alive, but they always die eventually (removing their Civ traits).

IMO. The best illians leader at EMM is dumannios - arc/sage

Due to civcs cottage economy in EMM is viable option, worked very well for illians instead of usual aristogarianism.

Auric as avatar simply sucks and is not worth of hassling. Hint - no blitz promo.

I agree Dumannios looks like a good pick. Anagantios looks decent. I may make a game with half barbarian leaders, so Braeden could work there as well. Also, the "favored" effect from Spiritual didn't seem to increase xp for my Eidolons. Only the 3 priests of Winter.

I did pretty good with City States & Agrianism. Consumption at first with Military State, but realized Scholarship & City States worked better with some specialist wonders and the increased work speed on ice terrain. When I got Auric, he was seriously unstoppable. I didn't put him out by himself if I could help it, but I couldn't believe how dominating in combat he was. The 7 move is very nice, plus I had 4 ice mana. The Blitz doesn't make a difference. I would move in 2 archmages with snowfall, then use his greater snowfall, and no stack could face us. Only drawback was the entire world made peace and focused on us, so I haven't finished the game as it's going to be a grind. Weird part is no Shadows have attacked me yet...only assassins.

It is not possible to create additional Priests of Winter in ExtraModMod. Although undoubtedly Spiritual is not as strong for the Illians as it is for other civilizations, with this trait Riuros gets a stronger start since he is able to switch Civics as soon as possible without fear of anarchy, and he is able to pull a better Priest of Winter rush than the other leaders because they are more powerful. Another advantage is that he can build the Temple of the Hand faster, which is a must for expanding aggressively on bad terrain.

I'm glad that you like the new leaders :)

The new leaders really enhance the game IMO. You make some good points about Riuros, but for my epic games it doesn't help as much. My games usually last well beyond AC 100, and lucked out because all 3 priests survived. Otherwise, there is a fair chance I can't make anymore ICE mana. Also, when I went to the Letum Frigus, there was no benefit like there used to be for the Illians (on the other side of the map).

Edit: Oh, and puppet states didn't seem to work even though it was enabled. Maybe some of my problems are the full of resources mapscript?

Edit: 2nd game the regular barb heroes are working (at least Orthus so far).
 
Also, when I went to the Letum Frigus, there was no benefit like there used to be for the Illians

yes, in current EMM letum frigus is not working as intended. I simply had to add aggressive trait to my illians leader via WB.
 
Auric ever getting his hands dirty himself tbh, I'd expect him to just sit back and blast away.
Honestly, the only change I would make is potentially increasing healing or healing after attack.
Crosspost: I certainly wouldn't improve him from the EMM version. I think that may go a bit far tbh - my concept is that he basically makes your stack impossible to beat (unless they have the Godslayer) meaning you can advance irresistibly. This renders it an I Win (as long as I don't face the Godslayer) setup, but not an instant win - the enemy has time to prepare and try to resist. That setup looks like you could just charge Auric off on his own to conquer the world (and fast too) which is an implementation I don't think I like.

That's exactly what I had in mind while improving Auric. In fact, at the end I thought that it may be too powerful in unintended ways already.

honestly, him just being immortal to all but the Godslayer is enough imho ....

being 30 str +20 ice str +10 ice affinity (illians start with one), even at just 4 move + flying (for 5 total move) its enough.

We don't need this excess of 4 first strikes or 7 moves imho. Let me think on it for a bit though. Giving him 20 range paradrop from an Illian city might be a worthy addition .... and I suppose depending on circumstance, the nature of

Although the post seems unfinished, I'll answer the part about movement. My point for giving it 7 moves was to make sure that it could quickly defend Illian territory, and that it could join advancing armies swiftly. I never thought about paradrop, maybe it could be better to lower Auric to 5+flying and give him paradrop instead.

it seems that the stigmata promotion doesn't work , the units have it doesn't benefit from the counter(half the counter bonus)

What makes you think that it does not work? Since I have not touched anything related with Stigmata, it would be strange for it to break. If I remember correctly it should appear in the tooltip.

Also, some of the techs which i haven't research have beakers already in it.(seems it happens after open border)

That is because of technology diffusion, a feature enabled in More Naval AI some months ago. If you have open borders with other civilizations, they will slowly get technology progress towards technologies that you have and they don't, and viceversa. I believe this feature can be disabled via game options.

Where does the Godslayer come from? Is that a scenario?

Whenever an Illian completes the ritual and creates Auric Ascended, the most powerful civilization that isn't them will get the Godslayer via an event. A unit bearing the Godslayer can permanently kill Auric just by being in combat against him, even if it would lose. This happens in normal games too (you will notice it when you try to attack an stack with Auric and you suddenly have very small chances of winning), so be careful while moving Auric around :)

I wasn't looking for a pattern, but there were times I could research a tech in 1 turn, or only a handful of turns, when it should have taken me the normal research time. I don't know where I was getting the research points into the techs. Figured it was part of the mod somehow.

Besides what I explained earlier in this post, there should be no other changes to technology progress with regard to default FFH2. Bear in mind that some random events grant you technology progress in what you are currently researching.

Also, The Luichurp cast their world spell on turn one (Luichurp really need help LOL), and no barbarian leaders spawned. No acheron, orthus, etc. Only the AC leaders spawned (yersinia, etc.).

I still disagree with the general opinion of Luchuirp being weak, specially in smaller maps in which their stack speed is not that important. The Luchuirp AI will cast its spell ASAP in order to get an early Great Engineer and to get a production boost in its capital. Having this bonus in the early game gives them a significant edge.

Although it is true that Acheron is spawning less frequently than before (I still have to look into ways of solving this issue), Orthus should appear normally unless you are playing in a map that gets crowded very early or you have disabled its game option.

The AI is better at keeping Basium and Hyborem alive, but they always die eventually (removing their Civ traits).

I believe that there is an issue ticket in the MNAI tracker for improving this situation in the future.

I agree Dumannios looks like a good pick. Anagantios looks decent. I may make a game with half barbarian leaders, so Braeden could work there as well. Also, the "favored" effect from Spiritual didn't seem to increase xp for my Eidolons.

Braeden is the only leader intended to be somewhat weak, but I could change that and give him proper traits. Favored is not an effect but a promotion, which is granted to all divine units. It may be possible that it is being granted only when the unit is built and not when it is being upgraded, and therefore if you upgraded your Eidolons from Melee units they wouldn't get the Favored promotion. I'm not sure if not having Favored on upgrade is intended or not.

Only drawback was the entire world made peace and focused on us, so I haven't finished the game as it's going to be a grind.

That's caused by The Draw ritual. The other civilizations do not take the return of the God of Winter lightly (the last time it was allowed to roam around it plunged the world into a centuries long ice age, after all) and they react accordingly.

The new leaders really enhance the game IMO. You make some good points about Riuros, but for my epic games it doesn't help as much. My games usually last well beyond AC 100, and lucked out because all 3 priests survived. Otherwise, there is a fair chance I can't make anymore ICE mana.

That's intended for making the Illian player having to choose between rushing or keeping one of them around.

Edit: Oh, and puppet states didn't seem to work even though it was enabled. Maybe some of my problems are the full of resources mapscript?

The mapscript should not be a problem. In order to create Puppet states, you need to research Feudalism first. This technology was stated incorrectly in the Features page of the wiki, and it will be fixed too in the emm_features.txt file distributed along with ExtraModMod for the next version.

yes, in current EMM letum frigus is not working as intended. I simply had to add aggressive trait to my illians leader via WB.

If you believe that you have found something not working as intended in EMM, please report it as a bug in this thread. In this particular case, though, Letum Frigus is working as intended. The FIRST civilization to reach Letum Frigus with a unit will get their special effect. The Illians get the Aggressive trait, while the Amurites get a Golden Age. Other civilizations get nothing, but they still try to visit Letum Frigus anyways (I do the same when I'm playing as non Illian). Civilizations that reach Letum Frigus after the first visit will get nothing. This is how it works in MNAI (and in default FFH2, I think), and I tested this in 0.4.1 before posting and it is working as I described.
 
What makes you think that it does not work? Since I have not touched anything related with Stigmata, it would be strange for it to break. If I remember correctly it should appear in the tooltip

In the main ffh mod , if i use a unit with stigmata promotion to attack enemy , the combat odds will show the bonus(eg the counter is 20, then 10% bonus), but in your modmod it doesn't show.
 
Technology Diffusion in MNAI is part of the Advanced Tactics option, which I believe is enabled by default in EMM.

re: Stigmata bonus - are you looking at the regular odds display or are you using the Advanced Odds display option from BUG? It's also important to note that the display odds are used for the UI only and are calculated separately from the actual combat odds.
 
Technology Diffusion in MNAI is part of the Advanced Tactics option, which I believe is enabled by default in EMM.

re: Stigmata bonus - are you looking at the regular odds display or are you using the Advanced Odds display option from BUG? It's also important to note that the display odds are used for the UI only and are calculated separately from the actual combat odds.

I don't know about advanced odd display(does the advanced odd display in default is on?),i mean the regular odds display
 
I ran into an Out of Sync error today while playing with my friend.

I'm playing as Elohim, and I have recently built a second city.

Whenever I double click the second city and go into the city view, the game out of syncs.

If there is any other information I can provide to help find this, I would be more than happy to. :D

EDIT: Possible false alarm. Just browsed through posts and found out installing EMM over a copy of More Naval AI can cause out of syncs. My friend and I will do clean installs and see if that helps. :D
 
So what's the main difference between this and MNAI? Also, the main post here says it can be installed over any version of MNAI, but the Bitbucket homepage states it has to be a clean patch o installation of FFH2. Which is true? And if the former is true, does that include the latest 2.53 patch from MNAI?
 
I recently got an event after I killed Hyborem and took his Gela. There were a bunch of choices of what to do with it... as Malakim I chose to "purify it in the Mirror of Heaven." When my paladin walked over the Mirror with the Gela, the Infernals declared war on me (they were my vassals) and a bunch of demonic barbarian champions spawned around that area. Gela was converted into a sweet trident with +2 holy and +1 sun affinity (!!). What do the other versions of the event do?

Also, sometimes I get this event where a wanderer comes to my palace and asks me what kind of stories I'm interested in. I usually choose "We do not have time for this" rather than paying 50 gold to hear about "the Wonders of Erebus" or "the greatest city he has ever seen." What does this event do?
 
Also, sometimes I get this event where a wanderer comes to my palace and asks me what kind of stories I'm interested in. I usually choose "We do not have time for this" rather than paying 50 gold to hear about "the Wonders of Erebus" or "the greatest city he has ever seen." What does this event do?

It reveals the map location of something, depending on your choice, e.g., a unique feature, a city, etc.
 
Never seems to work for me...as in, nothing ever gets revealed. Will try again and report back.

Also, has anyone had an issue with the music turning off randomly and staying off for long periods of time? I am only having this issue with the latest version of Terkhen's mod... Magister modmod seems to be working fine.
 
In the main ffh mod , if i use a unit with stigmata promotion to attack enemy , the combat odds will show the bonus(eg the counter is 20, then 10% bonus), but in your modmod it doesn't show.

Could you show me an screenshot of how it is shown in default? I don't know what I am looking for.

I ran into an Out of Sync error today while playing with my friend.

I'm playing as Elohim, and I have recently built a second city.

Whenever I double click the second city and go into the city view, the game out of syncs.

If there is any other information I can provide to help find this, I would be more than happy to. :D

EDIT: Possible false alarm. Just browsed through posts and found out installing EMM over a copy of More Naval AI can cause out of syncs. My friend and I will do clean installs and see if that helps. :D

Yes, although the original readme meant "a More Naval AI version equal or older to the one included in EMM", this wasn't properly described and I chose to just mention clean installations only. I'm very interested in fixing OOS errors (there is a very rare OOS with still unknown causes lurking in EMM) so if you get one again after doing clean installs please enable the options mentioned in the Testing guide and provide me with the information mentioned there so I can fix it :)

So what's the main difference between this and MNAI? Also, the main post here says it can be installed over any version of MNAI, but the Bitbucket homepage states it has to be a clean patch o installation of FFH2. Which is true? And if the former is true, does that include the latest 2.53 patch from MNAI?

Thank you, I forgot to update the first post after updating the bitbucket repo. Supposedly it should work if you paste EMM on top of either FFH2 or any MNAI version equal or lesser to the one included in EMM (in case of 0.4.1, it is MNAI 2.53), but it's probably safer to use clean installations.

There isn't a main difference between ExtraModMod and More Naval AI... there are a lot of small differences. The biggest ones are:


There are many other smaller changes, that you can check at the Features page.

I recently got an event after I killed Hyborem and took his Gela. There were a bunch of choices of what to do with it... as Malakim I chose to "purify it in the Mirror of Heaven." When my paladin walked over the Mirror with the Gela, the Infernals declared war on me (they were my vassals) and a bunch of demonic barbarian champions spawned around that area. Gela was converted into a sweet trident with +2 holy and +1 sun affinity (!!). What do the other versions of the event do?

Those come from the More Events modcomp included in Events Enhanced :)

Also, has anyone had an issue with the music turning off randomly and staying off for long periods of time? I am only having this issue with the latest version of Terkhen's mod... Magister modmod seems to be working fine.

That's weird. I can't help you much with that because I never play with music on. Does this happen for anyone else too?
 
Yes, although the original readme meant "a More Naval AI version equal or older to the one included in EMM", this wasn't properly described and I chose to just mention clean installations only. I'm very interested in fixing OOS errors (there is a very rare OOS with still unknown causes lurking in EMM) so if you get one again after doing clean installs please enable the options mentioned in the Testing guide and provide me with the information mentioned there so I can fix it :)

Thanks a bunch for the response! Doing a clean install did indeed solve our OOS issues. We do still seem to have one OOS per game, early on, around turn 20 - 30, but it only happens once, and then the rest of the game has been fine.

I did, however, run into another issue in our last game which I'm not sure is working as intended.

I was playing as the Balseraphs, and I had Loki, who should not be killable unless his space is completely surrounded by enemies since he automatically flees. Loki was sitting in a city I had just captured, along with a large stack of Mimics and such. I was at war with the AI Svartalfar. The AI attacked my city with an Assassin, and much to my surprise, it killed Loki. Are Assassins, or units who attack the weakest unit in a stack supposed to be able to kill Loki even if he isn't surrounded?

I guess it's possible the AI had completely surrounded my city with invisible units before attacking, but I highly doubt that is the case. :p I checked a few spaces around my city after the attack, but no enemy units were there.

Another thing I'd like to point out, in a different game, I had an extremely irritating experience involving the new Balseraph leader that has the Barbarian trait. I forget their names, but it's the three creepy looking midgets as a portrait. I had the good fortune of Orthus spawning right next to me, and he captured my capital city. The Barbarian trait Balseraphs were near me as well, and they walked Loki onto the city and converted it with Orthus standing right on top. They then left it undefended, and Orthus moved to stand on an adjacent square. I declared war on the Balseraphs and sent a warrior to recapture the city, only to have the it sacked and re-recaptured by Orthus, and then re-converted by the Balseraphs' Loki multiple times. XD

It was so annoying, and in my rage, I was typing up a post about how stupid that new Balseraph hero is with Loki being able to freely convert Barbarian cities without them doing anything about it, even if left undefended, but then I got over it and forgot about it. Still wanted to mention it, though, as it felt rather silly at the time.

Also, I want to say thank you for all the work you've done on this mod, -especially- the Out of Sync fixes. I only play this game multiplayer with my friends, and rampant Out of Sync was the main reason I stopped playing a few years ago. I was so happy to find More Naval AI, and EMM have stable multiplayer. :D
 
Braeden is the only leader intended to be somewhat weak, but I could change that and give him proper traits. Favored is not an effect but a promotion, which is granted to all divine units. It may be possible that it is being granted only when the unit is built and not when it is being upgraded, and therefore if you upgraded your Eidolons from Melee units they wouldn't get the Favored promotion. I'm not sure if not having Favored on upgrade is intended or not.
about favor: normally it increases free xp gain per turn;
Eilodon do not have free xp gain per turn... so while they might get the promotions, they don't get any benefit.
I think that for the xp gain per turn to work, the unit needs "divine" promotion ... (or channeling 1/2/3) .. in any cases, eidolon don't have these promotions.. so don't get free xp gain per turn.
 
Top Bottom