Caveman 2 Cosmos (ideas/discussions thread)

I just spend a few hours looking for a bug but in the end it was no bug because it is by design.

One AI city just built ~800 Units in a few turns and that made those turns a bit slower. It is caused by all the buildings giving production or +% to production and +325% to Military Unit Production also seems alot?

What era???

If this isn't terribly abnormal then it's a disharmony between unit and building costs and production capabilities n that era. Yes the military production % total seems high and 800 in a few rounds of ANY unit seems like it should well be impossible no matter what unit (what unit was it btw?)
 
What era???

If this isn't terribly abnormal then it's a disharmony between unit and building costs and production capabilities n that era. Yes the military production % total seems high and 800 in a few rounds of ANY unit seems like it should well be impossible no matter what unit (what unit was it btw?)


Medieval Era and i don't know the exact number of turns it took to build those units, it was less then 10 turns.

If a City has enough Production to build World Wonders in two turns with additional +325% to Military Unit Production alot is possible.
 
True. Did any particular buildings stand out as offering an exhorbitant amount of military production?

I know the Medieval era allows a lot of military to come out in a hurry but it still seems like a hell of a lot there.

Also wondering about the gamespeed...
 
Side note: C2C just recently passed Zappara's Rise of Mankind 2.91 for 3rd place on all time downloads. 171,xxx d/ls.

JosEPh
 
True. Did any particular buildings stand out as offering an exhorbitant amount of military production?

I know the Medieval era allows a lot of military to come out in a hurry but it still seems like a hell of a lot there.

Also wondering about the gamespeed...

I think at the moment Units are to cheap and way to much Gold is available. I played a bit A New Dawn and it is a huge difference i suggest you do the same to see what i mean.

Gamespeed is Snail and i would post the save but i deleted it:(.
 
I think at the moment Units are to cheap and way to much Gold is available. I played a bit A New Dawn and it is a huge difference i suggest you do the same to see what i mean.

Gamespeed is Snail and i would post the save but i deleted it:(.

We probably could do to increase unit costs. Gold probably is a bit too high as well but if we can get population taking up more education that would probably sort itself out.
 
I think that cutting back on the "manufactured resource" spam, which generates tonnes of resources for each civ and brings lots of cash into the game, would also help a great deal. It's not just for the player - I loaded into one C2C game and a BUG message helpfully told me that Cetshwayo of the Zulus had over 20,000 gold with which to barter!
 
Here we go +500% from modifiers and +395% to build that unit is just insane:eek:.
 

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I think some buildings instead of giving +% of military production should be required to build that kind of units.

Example
Armourer should be required to build heavy land units
Bow maker required to build archery units

We have. That logic for siege units, chariots, mounted so why not for land units?

In. C2C. We have to little discussion how things should work to be logical.

Another flaw is very cheap wooden ships.
 
It's definitely better than adding to the glut of gold, hammers and health that cities pick up so quickly after the early game.
 
Here we go +500% from modifiers and +395% to build that unit is just insane:eek:.
I think it would be helpful to see the buildings that are causing this huge +% for production/military production. If we're going to look at nerfing we need to know what it is we're looking to nerf.

Also... I'm a little curious about the resource production modifiers and where they're coming from... Obviously not as severe an issue but I'm a little confused by it since I don't usually get that far into the game in my tests.

I think some buildings instead of giving +% of military production should be required to build that kind of units.

Example
Armourer should be required to build heavy land units
Bow maker required to build archery units

We have. That logic for siege units, chariots, mounted so why not for land units?

In. C2C. We have to little discussion how things should work to be logical.

Another flaw is very cheap wooden ships.
I would agree BUT it would first require a little more review on the subject of the AI. If I'm not mistaken, and I may be, when an evaluation for what unit to build takes place, the city is evaluating what it can build only. This would mean that it's not inspired by this unit evaluation stage, to build first the building that would unlock the best unit it could otherwise build. Therefore it just picks a fairly inappropriate build potentially instead.

We then rely on the building to evaluate as valuable and to come up in earlier evaluations than the unit evaluation. However, if the building isn't perceived as valuable enough to bother then there's thereafter a disconnection between understanding that there could be a better unit that should be selected - it would just take a building to get it first.

AKA, I don't know if Koshling solved this problem or if it's still an issue but it MAY be bad for the AI to rig almost all units to require a building.

However, it's not a bad idea. It could give more buildings purpose therefore allowing us to nerf those building effects to bring things back into greater stability while maintaining usefulness for the building's existence.


True too that an honest evaluation of all building concepts and chains and reasonable progressions could help a great deal with a lot of balance issues.

It's just a very VERY VERY large task and would require a great deal of patience. Doing to buildings by some type of categorization method, what I'm doing to naval units, would be quite helpful if we can have that much patience and open communication to achieve real solutions.
 
Vokarya has a couple of threads devoted to doing just that in the RAND forum. Why not start some (resources, buildings etc.) and see where they go?
 
It's a matter of manpower. I'd play a supportive role in such an effort but I'm already working on one such project directly and it's still got a ways to go to reach full fruition.

You seem to have an interest. I'm sure I speak on behalf of the team to say it would be a welcome effort if you wanted to initiate such a project. I'd just ask you give us the format to really openly discuss things there because I know there's a lot of considerations and opinions about those considerations that are pre-existing on these issues. Lots to sort out.
 
Well, I'm willing to try, but given I know next to nothing about the actual coding, my main benefit is the open discussing of things. :)
 
I don't see this excess of gold until the late Medieval if then and I play on Noble difficulty! I am always struggling to get enough units to defend myself up until Classical as well.
 
Well, the Prehistoric Era seems better balanced now (for gold, at least) but at least by the Classical Era, I have more money than I can usually spend. I play on Noble too.

I'm often hurting for Gatherers/Workers and other units too, but that's not very important when each civ has only a few cities each.
 
Most of these works are in XML and this is "quite" easy :)

Looked in a couple of Civ4BuildingInfos.XML files. One with 318 entries and the other with 374 entries.

There is a tag <iAIWeight>0</iAIWeight>

It is set to 0 in everycase. So appears not to be used at the moment.

Could this be used (with the relevant cpp code), to get the AI to construct buildings that provide new units etc.
 
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