What other Civs would you like to see added to DoC

I think a 'Quebec' civilization would be a good idea if there were both French and non-French cities in North America around the time of the current Canada spawn and most of Quebec's core were not occupied by another civilization. However, if there were only French or only non-French cities or Quebec's core were mostly occupied, Canada should spawn.

I put Quebec in brackets since its core/historical area could stretch into Louisiana and represent an independent French-speaking state in North America.
 
I'd like to see a Bulgarian civ too! My biggest worry, though, that it still overcrowds Constantinople in the bigger map. Same worries for the Hungary civ, actually--it looks like a one-city core to me.
 
The first suggestion in this thread was Celts. It would be nice to bring back Stonehenge. Though if Celts were playable in game I think it could only be justified by making Natives into several playable civs as well which is a whole 'nother can of Borbetomagus.
 
Maybe another Latin American to improve the gameplay in the region. Brazil and Argentina almost don't declare war eachother. Peru (Incan's respawn) always collapse or is defeated by Argentina or Colombia. Colombia always falls too and invests its millitary power in conquering indy cities outside Latin America. Maybe could be Paraguay. They have an interesting history of economical and political isolationism from the great powers of 19th century and also they tried to be a independent power in the region, but that ended up very bad for them.
 
Maybe another Latin American to improve the gameplay in the region. Brazil and Argentina almost don't declare war eachother. Peru (Incan's respawn) always collapse or is defeated by Argentina or Colombia. Colombia always falls too and invests its millitary power in conquering indy cities outside Latin America. Maybe could be Paraguay. They have an interesting history of economical and political isolationism from the great powers of 19th century and also they tried to be a independent power in the region, but that ended up very bad for them.
Speaking of Peru, respawns that represent vastly different cultures like Peru should probably be turned into their own Civs. Much like how Iran is planned to be separated from Persia.
 
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There might be enough space for Chile on the new map and would make for a more interesting Argentina game with multiple potential adversaries in the neighbourhood. Bolivia could be a good add but I think it would be quite weak due to unfavourable terrain.
 
Reminds me of the jokes about a "realistic" Byzantine UHV way in the past: Lose 66% of your territory by 645 AD; Lose your capital by 1204 AD; Be conquered by 1453 AD. Some civs in the game have really had it rough lol.
Korea UHV1: Be Chinese vassal by 1910ad and last for 1000 years. UHV2: Be Japanese vassal from 1910ad to 1945 ad.
South Korea UHV3: Be America vassal from 1951ad till now
North Korea UHV3: Be Russia vassal from 1951 till 1991 and have a nuke before 2010ad.
 
Korea UHV1: Be Chinese vassal by 1910ad and last for 1000 years. UHV2: Be Japanese vassal from 1910ad to 1945 ad.
South Korea UHV3: Be America vassal from 1951ad till now
North Korea UHV3: Be Russia vassal from 1951 till 1991 and have a nuke before 2010ad.
That reminds me I haven't played as Korea in a very long time. Now that they have a new UU I should give them a shot (and see if I can get a nuke!)
 
North America needs to have native Americans represented. It's just so jarring so reach the New world and find it totally empty. It breaks immersion, is HUGELY ahistorical, and it robs the player of the ability to exploit or cooperate with the indigenous people to set up their colonies. I'd suggest:
Iroqouis full-blown civ as they were the most organized and powerful North American indigenous group, they also practiced agriculture.
Native team cities for all major tribes.
Independent cities for the Mississippi Mound culture. As Isdan pointed out, we don't have enough knowledge for leaders, uu or uhv for them so making a full civ wouldn't be feasible. However they practiced agriculture and had large settlements with monumental structures (mounds).

I'd also suggest there be a mechanism for "Indian Wars," as they called them. Something like, when old world civilizations reach a certain population/land area amount in the new world, natives get a stack of units. For each native city razed/captured in N.A., natives get a stack. Would give the player a incentive to burn/capture cities (gaining land and wiping out chance for stacks being spawned due to population/land), but also a drawback as natives would get more units for cities burned. Perhaps stack size could be connected to size of city razed/captured or even to total population of native cities in N.A. (less remaining pop=less units spawned).

The cherry on top would be an event around 1790 or so where a stack spawns with a great General or unit with Great General promotion called Tecumseh. If Tecumseh survives past a certain date or wins a certain amount of battles/captured cities, Native American Confederation civilization spawns with all native cities in NA flipping. Core territory can be in Indiana (where Prophetstown was located) and maybe Michigan (where British promised Tecumseh land for his nation) and or western US. This way the conflicts between NA settlers and native nations can be represented and there can be a chance for there to be a modern Native American nation in North America as almost did happen.

Of course there should also be mechanisms for trade/diplomacy/disease within the native cities (a la Colonization), but that may be a bit more difficult to code. Events giving gunpowder and horse units to natives should also be considered as happened in real life.
 
North America needs to have native Americans represented. It's just so jarring so reach the New world and find it totally empty. It breaks immersion, is HUGELY ahistorical, and it robs the player of the ability to exploit or cooperate with the indigenous people to set up their colonies.

I strongly agree. There has been some discussion on this on and off, and I think the Haudenosaunee (Iroquois) and Inuit have been the strongest contenders to be added so far. I don't think Leoreth has any concrete plans to add them yet though. There are a bunch of other things in the queue first, including changes to how civ slots are dealt with which I believe it a prerequisite to adding any further civs.

Iroqouis full-blown civ as they were the most organized and powerful North American indigenous group, they also practiced agriculture.

I wonder how true this is vs them just being one of the best known. Either way, I agree they should be added. I would love to see them and at least one of their main rivals, like the Huron or Wabanaki confederacies, and there just might be enough room for that on the larger map. If it's possible, it would enrich gameplay in pre-colonial eras, and create a setup for the French and English to side with different native civs as happened historically, or for a variety of alternate outcomes.

Native team cities for all major tribes.
Independent cities for the Mississippi Mound culture. As Isdan pointed out, we don't have enough knowledge for leaders, uu or uhv for them so making a full civ wouldn't be feasible. However they practiced agriculture and had large settlements with monumental structures (mounds).

Generally good point, though I expect there will be a wide variety of opinions among players about which ones should be included. I also think a civs like the Sioux should be included as their own civ, but ideally with mechanics that better reflect their mostly (as far as I know) nomadic society.

I'd also suggest there be a mechanism for "Indian Wars," as they called them. Something like, when old world civilizations reach a certain population/land area amount in the new world, natives get a stack of units. For each native city razed/captured in N.A., natives get a stack. Would give the player a incentive to burn/capture cities (gaining land and wiping out chance for stacks being spawned due to population/land), but also a drawback as natives would get more units for cities burned. Perhaps stack size could be connected to size of city razed/captured or even to total population of native cities in N.A. (less remaining pop=less units spawned).

I think something like this would be good, though I'd like to see a mechanic that primarily responds to expansion on the part of colonial civs, rather than just pop level. Like, capturing territory should trigger more units to make further conquests more difficult, though it would have to be balanced to be challenging, but still fun.

The cherry on top would be an event around 1790 or so where a stack spawns with a great General or unit with Great General promotion called Tecumseh.

Yeah, that would be cool.

If Tecumseh survives past a certain date or wins a certain amount of battles/captured cities, Native American Confederation civilization spawns with all native cities in NA flipping. Core territory can be in Indiana (where Prophetstown was located) and maybe Michigan (where British promised Tecumseh land for his nation) and or western US. This way the conflicts between NA settlers and native nations can be represented and there can be a chance for there to be a modern Native American nation in North America as almost did happen.

I'm not so sure about this. First, because I don't know if Leoreth is open to including civs that were short-lived or hypothetical. Maybe he is though, we'll have to see what he says. Second though, if such a civ were added, I don't think all native civs in NA should flip to it, unless these cities are only in a fairly limited area.

Of course there should also be mechanisms for trade/diplomacy/disease within the native cities (a la Colonization), but that may be a bit more difficult to code. Events giving gunpowder and horse units to natives should also be considered as happened in real life.

Yeah, I agree that would be cool too.
 
I also think a civs like the Sioux should be included as their own civ, but ideally with mechanics that better reflect their mostly (as far as I know) nomadic society.
Once Leoreth revisits the whole 'civ slots' issue, we need to have a discussion about properly incorporating nomadic civs into the game. It's not just Native Americans -- it's the entire history of the Eurasian steppes: the Scythians, the Iranians, the Celts, the Goths, the Huns, the Bulgars, the Magyar, the Parthians, the Turks (including but hardly limited to the Seljuks), the Yuezhi, the Uighurs, the Xiongnu, the Jurchen, the Khazars, and of course the Mongols.

Figuring out a way to accurately represent "these were advanced and powerful civilizations that for most of their history did not have settled cities" within the game, is a huge task, but a hugely important one if we want this game to truly represent world history.

But that's a conversation that can wait until Leoreth figures out how to remove the cap on civilizations.
 
After seeing the suggestions above about Indonesia I'm going to suggest that the Andaman Islands spawns a militia that can't be defeated sometime around the 18th century.
 
Once Leoreth revisits the whole 'civ slots' issue, we need to have a discussion about properly incorporating nomadic civs into the game. It's not just Native Americans -- it's the entire history of the Eurasian steppes: the Scythians, the Iranians, the Celts, the Goths, the Huns, the Bulgars, the Magyar, the Parthians, the Turks (including but hardly limited to the Seljuks), the Yuezhi, the Uighurs, the Xiongnu, the Jurchen, the Khazars, and of course the Mongols.

Figuring out a way to accurately represent "these were advanced and powerful civilizations that for most of their history did not have settled cities" within the game, is a huge task, but a hugely important one if we want this game to truly represent world history.

But that's a conversation that can wait until Leoreth figures out how to remove the cap on civilizations.

This is all true. Until that time though I think there should be native team settlements wherever possible, so at least these people are represented in some way.
 
Figuring out a way to accurately represent "these were advanced and powerful civilizations that for most of their history did not have settled cities" within the game, is a huge task, but a hugely important one if we want this game to truly represent world history.
As mentioned, this conversation can and should wait until Leoreth starts dealing with the 'civ slots' issue. I'm mainly writing this to brainstorm, and so I don't forget some of the ideas that are popping into my head.

1) find a way to represent the 'inner tribes'/'outer tribes' division in most nomadic confederations. This was true of the Scythians, the Huns, the Turks, the Mongols, and most likely the other steppe tribes that I'm not as familiar with, as well as the Iroquois and other Native American tribes. Basically: the single tribe/clan/family in power would surround themselves with several close allied groups, which would in turn be surrounded (often geographically) with other tribes and factions, more distantly allied, typically controlled by the inner group (without receiving the same benefits as received by the inner tribe). This might be represented via civics. More ambitiously, it might be represented by giving nomadic civs limited control over their full empire -- you can identify targets and declare war, but the 'outer tribe' armies might act independently of your control (though you benefit from their victories).

2) find a way to represent nomadic 'tent cities' -- not just their mobility, but the fact that they benefited mostly from flat grasslands since that's where their horses and other livestock could thrive. Disincentive nomadic cities from settling near hills or forests that ordinarily have better production. One possibility: nomadic cities are only able to work grassland or plains tiles. Alternately, nomadic cities might be limited to only working tiles with pasture-resources (horses, cows, sheep, etc.) but receive must better bonuses from those resources. Find a way to tie total units produced to number of horses/animal resources? (With the bigger map, we should consider adding a lot of horses and similar resources to the steppes in that case). Also, make it possible for 'tent cities' to become real settlements. Karakorum becoming an actual city during the Mongol conquests (specifically as a result of loot and captives being brought back to show off) is a good example, though there have been many others before and after them.

3) provide options for the settled civilizations to either a) bribe the 'barbarians' into not attacking them, b) vassalize one steppe tribe so they attack other unfriendly tribes, c) become vassalized without losing their autonomy or separate administration. China for most of its history had a very sophisticated system of diplomacy to keep the steppe peoples at each others' throats and away from the northern Chinese plain. The Byzantines had a similar diplomatic policy, albeit even more complicated. The Byzantines were also known for relocating different steppe tribes away from the frontier they would normally threaten, and deploy them to an entirely different frontier as mercenaries/warm bodies to fight barbarians on a different border.

4) the nomadic people of the steppes were known for two things -- regular invasions into the settled regions south of the steppes, and heavy sustained involvement in the cross-continent trade that later became known as the Silk Road. Figure out a way to represent the trade aspect of nomadic life, especially the middleman role of the Tarim Basin (west of China) and Transoxiana (north of Iran). No idea how to implement this, though I suspect it should be closely tied to the diplomacy mechanic above.

5) find a way to demonstrate how nomadic people were able to migrate, conquer, and settle new regions that became their new heartland/core. The Turks invading Asia Minor are probably the best example of this -- the Turkic people originated out of the same region as the Mongols, but had little difficulty in moving their homeland across most of Eurasia when they moved into the Anatolian highlands. I am no programmer, so this might be impossible to implement, but I wonder if it'd be possible to design a 'dynamic core' system, where civs can change their own settler maps over time due to population and culture (e.g. Rome starts with a very small core limited to Rome itself, expands to the rest of Italy, then gradually adds a few more major cities around the Mediterranean as they are integrated into the Roman system). If this mechanic were generally permitted for most civs, then it'd be a matter of changing the modifiers for nomadic civs, so they'd find it easier to make new 'core tiles' (and easier to lose old core tiles) as the population moves into a new region.

6) find a way to represent just how absolutely freakish the Mongol conquests were -- both in terms of administration, and in terms of how quickly new areas were conquered. Normal steppe tribes should have certain advantages (especially in stronger cavalry), balanced by unique disadvantages (much less population, poor organization and administration, etc.). The Mongols should receive the full benefits of nomadic tribes and settled civs -- strong cavalry, huge population, unparalleled administration, etc. One possibility for showcasing how fast they moved, would be having their unique 'ger' building give a mobility promotion to all units, with +1 movement and 'commando' abilities over poor terrain. Basically, find a way to represent the Mongol army as being entirely comprised of cavalry, even their siege engineers, enabling them to move across the entire Eurasian steppes in a few turns without having to wait for their slow siege weapons.


That's all for now.
 
Maybe another Latin American to improve the gameplay in the region. Brazil and Argentina almost don't declare war eachother. Peru (Incan's respawn) always collapse or is defeated by Argentina or Colombia. Colombia always falls too and invests its millitary power in conquering indy cities outside Latin America. Maybe could be Paraguay. They have an interesting history of economical and political isolationism from the great powers of 19th century and also they tried to be a independent power in the region, but that ended up very bad for them.

Paraguay? The first nation to have rail roads, telegraphs, adequate secular public education, no foreign debt, and socialized land management (that render the nation with a virtual 0% unemployment) in South, if not, all Latin America? Sadly it belongs to Alternate history mod, I recon UHV 3 would be have Brazil or Argentina raze one of your cities... To those who are fluent in Spanish, I recommend watching the 6th episode of the TV show Algo Habran hecho por la Historia Argentina (S2 E2).

There might be enough space for Chile on the new map and would make for a more interesting Argentina game with multiple potential adversaries in the neighborhood.
Awesome Idea!!!
 
You know, without wanting to get too much into political and ethical discussions, you are recommending to name as historical victory, or as one of the greatest achievements of the Jewish people, the systematic killing of Muslim people. Other civs have UHVs related to war and conquest, but the praise lies in the conquest of the land, not on the killing of the population - and much less of the targeted killing of a specific population - we have a word for that, it's called genocide. A Jewish civ and even an Israeli civ would be interesting (map and game permitting), but this is not the kind of things you celebrate and remember as a historic national achievement.

I do agree that it is not a good UHV goal and it is offensive, but assisasination of Great People is not genocide.
 
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