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It's a fortunate thing that CFC's ways are more tolerant. The conversation would never have gotten this long on a lot of other sites. One of the TrekBBS mods (another Canadian) was flabbergasted when I mentioned it in the Canadian politics thread.
And I have now found that thread and am reading all of the kind and loving things you are saying about me there. I'm not going to continue the discussion of Amerindian assimilation, so I'm not going to respond to those parts of your comments here. I wish to have a future on this forum.
I'd ask if you understood how rude and sexist that is, but you obviously don't. The family life I had resulted in putting me very out of step with most of my age-peers in a number of important ways.
Sexist? LOL, I didn't say a thing about your gender, I am just as sassy towards males I disagree with as I am towards females I disagree with.
You don't appear to be earning much respect here. In fact, I've yet to see anyone supporting your revolting worldview, or even your treatment of fellow forum members - who did accord you the courtesy of interacting with you.
I have received some PMs in support of my comments here, but I will keep them anonymous because I respect people's privacy. I am also going to refrain from discussing certain aspects of my views here from now on.
OMG, you are so full of yourself! No, you don't get to presume that you understand me or my family. My mother did have her good points as well, though she had a way of doing a 180-degree turn on a dime between being pleasant and being verbally abusive when I was older and physically abusive when I was a child. That's why I've said my parents' divorce was the best thing that could have happened and I didn't have to live under her roof anymore.
Then you don't get to presume that you understand me, and thus, you don't get to presume that I am "so full of [myself]."
If you can't be bothered with my full name, everyone here calls me "Valka". But on the other hand, I'm not sure I'm comfortable with my name being tainted by your filthy keyboard, so maybe you should just call me "Ma'am". Seeing as how I'm so much older than you.
You're not the Queen, so I won't be calling you "Ma'am", but you can feel free to call me "Baas".
LOL. What a revolting idea.

Smarter people than you have tried to defeat me over the years, either in threads or by other behaviors that at times made life here a bit on the hellish side. Guess what - either they left voluntarily, were permabanned, or gave up, and I'm still here. I will continue to be here, long after you're gone.
Seeing as I am more than 3 decades younger than you, I will probably still be posting here once you are no longer with us, unless you plan to live past 110 years old. Do you?
I get the impression that you don't have much respect for either them or their age group, though, do you. There's a difference between occasional visits and living with them every day for many years, interacting not only with them but also their age-peers. People my age thought it weird to live with my grandparents and couldn't understand why I myself didn't hate it. Well, it wasn't perfect (I've mentioned the bigoted, patriarchal views of my grandfather), but it was better than wondering every day if my mother was going to hit me, or make some nasty comments intended to hurt.
I far prefer their age group to my own.
As for you not being a teenager... yeah, I've been mentally revising your age a couple of times over the course of these two threads you've been part of. Are you sure you don't need your parents' permission to register here? Is COPPA still a thing for forums?
My age begins with a 2, and contains two digits.
Most people express age in years, not months.
See above. I'm not responding to the rest of your comment because I'm staying away from the topic of Amerindians and assimilation. You already know how I feel about them and their cultures, and I don't want to get in any more trouble, so I'm done with that topic.
It's chump change though in the grand scheme of things. Government spends over a $100 billion per year. What's a few hundred million here and there.

For some strange reason a lot of Safi's migrate here.

If you have a underclass that's treated like complete frapbyou get the crime, corruption, instability and problems SA has today's.

Were one of the least corrupt countries on the planet one of the most peaceful and richer as well despite lacking SA natural resources.

Must be doing something right. F all NZers migrate to SA for some strange mysterious reason.
Of course, you can also deal with a criminal underclass by increasing the amount of police officers, increasing the sentences for crimes, imprisoning more people, etc...It's the carrot vs the stick. I prefer the stick. Inspector Javert from Les Mis is a good representation of my ideal law enforcement.
 
paul here like literally "we deserve it because we have it" and "we're gonna beat you up if you don't let us"
a group that was unable to defeat you in any way.
yikes
You just kind of gave into their demands even though they had no way of enforcing them, which is, quite frankly, baffling to me.
yikes
 
And I have now found that thread and am reading all of the kind and loving things you are saying about me there. I'm not going to continue the discussion of Amerindian assimilation, so I'm not going to respond to those parts of your comments here. I wish to have a future on this forum.

Sexist? LOL, I didn't say a thing about your gender, I am just as sassy towards males I disagree with as I am towards females I disagree with.

I have received some PMs in support of my comments here, but I will keep them anonymous because I respect people's privacy. I am also going to refrain from discussing certain aspects of my views here from now on.

Then you don't get to presume that you understand me, and thus, you don't get to presume that I am "so full of [myself]."

You're not the Queen, so I won't be calling you "Ma'am", but you can feel free to call me "Baas".

Seeing as I am more than 3 decades younger than you, I will probably still be posting here once you are no longer with us, unless you plan to live past 110 years old. Do you?

I far prefer their age group to my own.

My age begins with a 2, and contains two digits.

See above. I'm not responding to the rest of your comment because I'm staying away from the topic of Amerindians and assimilation. You already know how I feel about them and their cultures, and I don't want to get in any more trouble, so I'm done with that topic.

Of course, you can also deal with a criminal underclass by increasing the amount of police officers, increasing the sentences for crimes, imprisoning more people, etc...It's the carrot vs the stick. I prefer the stick. Inspector Javert from Les Mis is a good representation of my ideal law enforcement.

And how's that working out for SA with the riots etc.
 
And how's that working out for SA with the riots etc.
indeed, and that's a big point there: this whole avuncular ultrapolice idea doesn't work

(also lol like javert was explicitly a cruel, horrible villain, whose views and practices are not just displayed as abhorrent, but fundamentally inept. it's a literal ahab story of a guy who pushes "justice" to the inevitable end of self-destruction. he's the embodiment of blind justice gone too far, and paul's sitting there like "yep this works")
 
indeed, and that's a big point there: this whole avuncular ultrapolice idea doesn't work

(also lol like javert was explicitly a cruel, horrible villain, whose views and practices are not just displayed as abhorrent, but fundamentally inept. it's a literal ahab story of a guy who pushes "justice" to the inevitable end of self-destruction. he's the embodiment of blind justice gone too far, and paul's sitting there like "yep this works")

Heh yeah. Basically it's in our best interests from a pragmatic PoV to raise the Maori standard of living.

Various ways to do that SA is a prime example of what not to do.

First black person I ever met was SA dodging apartheid in small town NZ in the 80's.

He was a dentist kids went to local school. Small Town 90-95% white back then. Least diverse town in the country was half an hour north.

Better immigrants than a good chunk of the whites fleeing here post 1994.
 
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At this rate I kinda doubt you’ll be here Thursday.
In the darkest hole, you'd be well advised
Not to plan my funeral, before the body dies...
paul here like literally "we deserve it because we have it" and "we're gonna beat you up if you don't let us"
yikes
yikes
If we don't deserve it, neither do the Bantus. If we're going based on the original owners of the land, it should all go back to the Khoisan. If we're going based on who currently owns it, and who acquired it legally, it's us. If we apply some twisted pretzel logic full of special pleading, we can make a case to give it to the Bantus.
And how's that working out for SA with the riots etc.
Even in African countries where there are very few White people, there are still riots.
Even if we gave up everything and left the country, you would still have riots and power struggle between various Bantu groups, between Bantus and Coloureds (this is the proper term in South Africa, it refers to a group of multiracial origin, I know Americans don't like it, though) and Indians, etc...
So, by robbing us of our land and wealth and ethnically cleansing us from our home, you wouldn't stop the riots, you would merely change the groups involved in them.
indeed, and that's a big point there: this whole avuncular ultrapolice idea doesn't work

(also lol like javert was explicitly a cruel, horrible villain, whose views and practices are not just displayed as abhorrent, but fundamentally inept. it's a literal ahab story of a guy who pushes "justice" to the inevitable end of self-destruction. he's the embodiment of blind justice gone too far, and paul's sitting there like "yep this works")
No, Javert was a tragic hero, or maybe a tragic antihero. It's a story of a man with impeccable character who decides to end his life rather than live in debt to a criminal. Let's look at his situation:
Valjean, an escaped convict, had joined the rebellion, which had captured Javert and wanted to execute him. Valjean volunteers for this role, and takes Javert into an alley where they cannot be seen by the rebels. He shoots a shot that intentionally misses Javert (so that the rebels hear a shot), and the lets Javert go, telling Javert where he can find Valjean when the rebellion has been suppressed.
Javert, at this point, has two equally bad choices. He can either
1. Go to arrest Valjean, the man who spared his life ("live in the debt of a thief")
Or he can
2. Let Valjean go, and thus shirk his duty to the law ("yield at the end of the chase")
Since neither of these options is ethically defensible, he chooses to instead commit suicide in order to escape from the world of Jean Valjean.
A man so devoted to justice that he sacrificed his life rather than his morals.
Heh yeah. Basically it's in our best interests from a pragmatic PoV to raise the Maori standard of living.
You could at least ask for something in return, i.e. more English language in Maori communities, for them to dress in a more Western way, for them to go to Christian church, etc...Essentially trade them money for Westernization.
Various ways to do that SA is a prime example of what no to do.
Our situation was completely different than yours. We were surrounded by hostile enemy nations starting in the mid-70s, getting worse when Rhodesia became Zimbabwe, etc...and Boers were outnumbered by Bantus, whereas Anglos outnumbered Maoris. So it's not a really fair comparison. We were in a much more precarious position, geopolitically, demographically, and diplomatically (since we received far more grief from the international community than you did).
First black person I ever met was SA dodging apartheid in small town NZ in the 80's.

He was a dentist kids went to local school. Small Town 90-95% white Back then. Least diverse town in the country was half an hour north.
And now, New Zealand has become a target for mass migration.
Better immigrants than a good chunk of the whites fleeing here post 1994.
Once again, one of the last socially acceptable prejudices (anti-white) makes an appearance! Imagine if some US politician, say Donald Trump, had said "whites are better immigrants than a good chunk of Syrian refugees." Imagine the outrage and uproar there would be. But for some reason, almost no one cares if White South Africans are insulted...back to the topic of Les Mis, as Valjean sings in his Soliloquy, "I have come to hate the world, this world that always hated me." White South Africans have received a disproportionate amount of hatred from the world compared to what our people have done in history...lots of countries have done far worse than us, and received a fraction of the hatred. Mugabe killed more people than Dr. Verwoerd, yet Mugabe got to live out a long, luxurious life, and Dr. Verwoerd was brutally murdered by an alt-left fanatic. All the horrible things the communist government was doing in China, yet we got far more sanctions than they did in the 1980s.
 
In the darkest hole, you'd be well advised
Not to plan my funeral, before the body dies...

If we don't deserve it, neither do the Bantus. If we're going based on the original owners of the land, it should all go back to the Khoisan. If we're going based on who currently owns it, and who acquired it legally, it's us. If we apply some twisted pretzel logic full of special pleading, we can make a case to give it to the Bantus.

Even in African countries where there are very few White people, there are still riots.
Even if we gave up everything and left the country, you would still have riots and power struggle between various Bantu groups, between Bantus and Coloureds (this is the proper term in South Africa, it refers to a group of multiracial origin, I know Americans don't like it, though) and Indians, etc...
So, by robbing us of our land and wealth and ethnically cleansing us from our home, you wouldn't stop the riots, you would merely change the groups involved in them.

No, Javert was a tragic hero, or maybe a tragic antihero. It's a story of a man with impeccable character who decides to end his life rather than live in debt to a criminal. Let's look at his situation:
Valjean, an escaped convict, had joined the rebellion, which had captured Javert and wanted to execute him. Valjean volunteers for this role, and takes Javert into an alley where they cannot be seen by the rebels. He shoots a shot that intentionally misses Javert (so that the rebels hear a shot), and the lets Javert go, telling Javert where he can find Valjean when the rebellion has been suppressed.
Javert, at this point, has two equally bad choices. He can either
1. Go to arrest Valjean, the man who spared his life ("live in the debt of a thief")
Or he can
2. Let Valjean go, and thus shirk his duty to the law ("yield at the end of the chase")
Since neither of these options is ethically defensible, he chooses to instead commit suicide in order to escape from the world of Jean Valjean.
A man so devoted to justice that he sacrificed his life rather than his morals.

You could at least ask for something in return, i.e. more English language in Maori communities, for them to dress in a more Western way, for them to go to Christian church, etc...Essentially trade them money for Westernization.

Our situation was completely different than yours. We were surrounded by hostile enemy nations starting in the mid-70s, getting worse when Rhodesia became Zimbabwe, etc...and Boers were outnumbered by Bantus, whereas Anglos outnumbered Maoris. So it's not a really fair comparison. We were in a much more precarious position, geopolitically, demographically, and diplomatically (since we received far more grief from the international community than you did).

And now, New Zealand has become a target for mass migration.

Once again, one of the last socially acceptable prejudices (anti-white) makes an appearance! Imagine if some US politician, say Donald Trump, had said "whites are better immigrants than a good chunk of Syrian refugees." Imagine the outrage and uproar there would be. But for some reason, almost no one cares if White South Africans are insulted...back to the topic of Les Mis, as Valjean sings in his Soliloquy, "I have come to hate the world, this world that always hated me." White South Africans have received a disproportionate amount of hatred from the world compared to what our people have done in history...lots of countries have done far worse than us, and received a fraction of the hatred. Mugabe killed more people than Dr. Verwoerd, yet Mugabe got to live out a long, luxurious life, and Dr. Verwoerd was brutally murdered by an alt-left fanatic. All the horrible things the communist government was doing in China, yet we got far more sanctions than they did in the 1980s.

White South African immigrants don't have the best reputation here due to the way they talk about others basically non whites.

To be fair most have been alright.

We did force the Maori to learn English they got physically punished for speaking it at school.

Worked about as well as you would expect. These days there's more of a push to learn Maori.

At middle school (age 10-12) I got to spend time at a Kohanga Reo basically a Maori school. Nice people had fun. That was in 89/90.

Also visited the local Marae (meeting house).

We never excluded the Maori from social life in NZ though. By that I mean there was no apartheid or segregation my grandparents let my uncle's play with their kids in the 40's and 50's.

Turns out if you don't treat people like complete crap you get better results in your society. Strange concept I know.

There was casual racism etc we're not perfect compared to Australia, USA, SA things are good comparitively. Lnever felt uncomfortable or threatened on a Marae or getting drunk with Maoris and you're the minority.
 
No, Javert was a tragic hero, or maybe a tragic antihero. It's a story of a man with impeccable character who decides to end his life rather than live in debt to a criminal. Let's look at his situation:​
Valjean, an escaped convict, had joined the rebellion, which had captured Javert and wanted to execute him. Valjean volunteers for this role, and takes Javert into an alley where they cannot be seen by the rebels. He shoots a shot that intentionally misses Javert (so that the rebels hear a shot), and the lets Javert go, telling Javert where he can find Valjean when the rebellion has been suppressed.
Javert, at this point, has two equally bad choices. He can either
1. Go to arrest Valjean, the man who spared his life ("live in the debt of a thief")
Or he can
2. Let Valjean go, and thus shirk his duty to the law ("yield at the end of the chase")
Since neither of these options is ethically defensible, he chooses to instead commit suicide in order to escape from the world of Jean Valjean.
A man so devoted to justice that he sacrificed his life rather than his morals.
book's very explicit about him being horrible and the reasons for his suicide. hugo's characterization of the guy is in the text, it's as descriptive as saying something is of some color, and not really a question of interpretation. javert kills himself because of despair, realizing that his worldview that he has lived staunchly with through his whole life after prison is not applicable to the real world. it's a crisis of faith and rather than dealing with it, he chooses not to work it out and rather commits suicide as a way out of the pain. it's not a glorious sacrifice for anything, it's an idiot realizing idiocy and giving up. he does not sacrifice himself for justice, but rather opts out because his idea of justice is a false one. it's wasted life because he chose to waste it. he's not a tragic hero. maybe he's a tragic villain - at least a complex one, as good villains are - but he is explicitly a cautionary tale of how destructive heavy-handedness is in legalism, embodied both in the failure of it (through the interactions with valjean) and in himself (he dies = rigid "justice" dies). it's not even that complicated to understand in writing, it's a question of literary framing, the whole book is literally about the dignity of human life and freedom, it's the whole point, and you're sitting there like "this whole guy self-destructing out of lack of reality - he's right mayn".

like, just... pick another ideal character of justice, fictional or not. instead of someone explicitly used to completely destroy what you believe

it's as edgy as the people watching The Dark Knight and being like "this joker guy is so cool, he's so edgy and true" and fail to realize the whole point of the movie is that the joker is wrong. at the precipice of the whole story, he is proven wrong and that's the point.
 
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White South African immigrants don't have the best reputation here due to the way they talk about others basically non whites.
I don't know why everyone is so obsessed with the way White South Africans view non-Whites...you should hear some of the things that the black community in South Africa says about us...
To be fair most have been alright.
:goodjob:
We did force the Maori to learn English they got physically punished for speaking it at school.
Well, I'm not advocating for that in this thread, I am saying that New Zealand could offer them money in exchange for them adopting a more Anglo culture and the English language. This is different than forcing them to assimilate. It's the carrot, instead of the stick.
Worked about as well as you would expect. These days there's more of a push to learn Maori.
Not sure why anyone would want to learn a language that is pretty much useless in terms of employment prospects.
At middle school (age 10-12) I got to spend time at a Kohanga Reo basically a Maori school. Nice people had fun. That was in 89/90.
Why would you want to learn Maori instead of a more useful language such as Afrikaans, French, German, Spanish, etc?
Also visited the local Marae (meeting house).
Apparently it's some kind of pagan temple, according to Google. I wouldn't go to one, since I am Christian and I do not wish to be involved in the worship of false gods.
We never excluded the Maori from social life in NZ though. By that I mean there was no apartheid or segregation my grandparents let my uncle's play with their kids in the 40's and 50's.
Wasn't NZ's goal to assimilate them, though? Just like North America and its Amerindians? Whereas, in South Africa, trying to assimilate the black population wouldn't have worked since they outnumbered us 3:1. (They now outnumber us 10:1, because their birth rate is higher than ours and many of us have fled the country, our future looks pretty bleak.)
Turns out if you don't treat people like complete crap you get better results in your society. Strange concept I know.
Tell that to Julius Malema.
There was casual racism etc we're not perfect compared to Australia, USA, SA things are good comparitively. Lnever felt uncomfortable or threatened on a Marae or getting drunk with Maoris and you're the minority.
Do you really think I'm unaware of the fact that I'm a minority in my own homeland? Every election in my lifetime has driven that point home for me.
book's very explicit about him being horrible and the reasons for his suicide. hugo's characterization of the guy is in the text, it's as descriptive as saying something is of some color, and not really a question of interpretation. javert kills himself because of despair, realizing that his worldview that he has lived staunchly with through his whole life after prison is not applicable to the real world. it's a crisis of faith and rather than dealing with it, he chooses not to work it out and rather commits suicide as a way out of the pain. it's not a glorious sacrifice for anything, it's an idiot realizing idiocy and giving up. he does not sacrifice himself for justice, but rather opts out because his idea of justice is a false one. it's wasted life because he chose to waste it. he's not a tragic hero. maybe he's a tragic villain - at least a complex one, as good villains are - but he is explicitly a cautionary tale of how destructive heavy-handedness is in legalism, embodied both in the failure of it (through the interactions with valjean) and in himself (he dies = rigid "justice" dies). it's not even that complicated to understand in writing, it's a question of literary framing, the whole book is literally about the dignity of human life and freedom, it's the whole point, and you're sitting there like "this whole guy self-destructing out of lack of reality - he's right mayn".
I've never read the book, I only know the musical. Javert killed himself because Valjean, in sparing his life, put Javert in an untenable position. Either he could act immorally in turning in a man who saved his life, or he could act immorally in shirking his duty to the law and letting a escaped convict go. He chose an honourable third path. Javert had a huge amount of honour and a noble character.
like, just... pick another ideal character of justice, fictional or not. instead of someone explicitly used to completely destroy what you believe

it's as edgy as the people watching The Dark Knight and being like "this joker guy is so cool, he's so edgy and true" and fail to realize the whole point of the movie is that the joker is wrong. at the precipice of the whole story, he is proven wrong and that's the point.
The character I felt an affinity for in the Dark Knight was the guy who lost half of his face. I don't recall his name, it's been a decade since I saw that movie.
 
I don't know why everyone is so obsessed with the way White South Africans view non-Whites...you should hear some of the things that the black community in South Africa says about us...

:goodjob:

Well, I'm not advocating for that in this thread, I am saying that New Zealand could offer them money in exchange for them adopting a more Anglo culture and the English language. This is different than forcing them to assimilate. It's the carrot, instead of the stick.

Not sure why anyone would want to learn a language that is pretty much useless in terms of employment prospects.

Why would you want to learn Maori instead of a more useful language such as Afrikaans, French, German, Spanish, etc?

Apparently it's some kind of pagan temple, according to Google. I wouldn't go to one, since I am Christian and I do not wish to be involved in the worship of false gods.

Wasn't NZ's goal to assimilate them, though? Just like North America and its Amerindians? Whereas, in South Africa, trying to assimilate the black population wouldn't have worked since they outnumbered us 3:1. (They now outnumber us 10:1, because their birth rate is higher than ours and many of us have fled the country, our future looks pretty bleak.)

Tell that to Julius Malema.

Do you really think I'm unaware of the fact that I'm a minority in my own homeland? Every election in my lifetime has driven that point home for me.

I've never read the book, I only know the musical. Javert killed himself because Valjean, in sparing his life, put Javert in an untenable position. Either he could act immorally in turning in a man who saved his life, or he could act immorally in shirking his duty to the law and letting a escaped convict go. He chose an honourable third path. Javert had a huge amount of honour and a noble character.

The character I felt an affinity for in the Dark Knight was the guy who lost half of his face. I don't recall his name, it's been a decade since I saw that movie.

If you want a government job learning Maoribis near mandatory or at least a massive advantage.

Teaching,vuniversitirs, civil service. Very easy language to learn.

Maraes are not temples although they might use them for spiritual purposesvidk. Their house their castle.
 
If you want a government job learning Maoribis near mandatory or at least a massive advantage.
Why? Getting a government job in Australia doesn't require speaking Aboriginese. Getting a government job in Canada doesn't require speaking Eskimo/Inuit. Getting a government job in the US doesn't require speaking Cherokee. Why does New Zealand, uniquely among the Anglosphere countries, require government workers to learn a precolonial language? Are there really that many Maoris who are unable to speak English?
Teaching,vuniversitirs, civil service. Very easy language to learn.
But why is NZ society emphasizing it? Why not just have it so that if Maoris really want to learn it, they can learn it from their parents/grandparents, but it's not so prominent in your society?
Maraes are not temples although they might use them for spiritual purposesvidk. Their house their castle.
I disagree that NZ is their house more than it is yours. It's at least, just as much your house as it is theirs.
 
Why? Getting a government job in Australia doesn't require speaking Aboriginese. Getting a government job in Canada doesn't require speaking Eskimo/Inuit. Getting a government job in the US doesn't require speaking Cherokee. Why does New Zealand, uniquely among the Anglosphere countries, require government workers to learn a precolonial language? Are there really that many Maoris who are unable to speak English?

But why is NZ society emphasizing it? Why not just have it so that if Maoris really want to learn it, they can learn it from their parents/grandparents, but it's not so prominent in your society?

I disagree that NZ is their house more than it is yours. It's at least, just as much your house as it is theirs.

The Marae is on their land that's their house their castle. There's all sorts of protocols to visit.

NZs fairly unique in the anglo based countries in the way they treated the natives. Colonialism wasn't great for them but as I said they were never excluded socially.

If you read surviving accounts from the imperial erabthey never really denied the Maori their humanity and their seemed to be respect there at least by the standards of the 19th century.

Culturally pre 1980's everyone went to the same schools same events, and rugby. If you have Maori's in your soirt team or workplace they get invited to the after party.

That was in the good old days. It didn't prevent racism but it kept a lid on white supremacists. They're very rare here not saying they don't exist

Conversations countries are having now we had back in the 70's and 80's. NZs opinion on apartheid 1981.


Maori renaissance started in the 70's.

Why? NZ has always been more progressive in most ways than the rest in anglosphere. Women got the right to vote 1893 (1920 in USA) one of the first countries to build the welfare state.

No segregation no apartheid lots of intermarriage between the Maori and Pakeha. Hard to be a white supremacist when your family has Polynesian branches or your kids have Maori ancestry.
 
The lack of requirements for native languages in the Canadian public service is more to do with the complexity of having a fair number of different local native languages. Even then there are discussions underway on how to better dupport indigenous languages.

The "they can just learn English and screw other languages" notion just create a country-wide equivalent of the bland soulless cookie-cutter 1950s neighborhood. Boring.
 
Is the Dutch Reformed Church big in South Africa? I visited a Dutch Reformed Church today since I’m living on Staten Island at the moment and recently found out one of my ancestors was part of a Dutch Reformed Church in New Amsterdam and lived on Staten Island but was French actually. I didn’t know this before since I’m from the South and this was a different branch of the family and it’s just by coincidence I’m in New York.
 
Good to hear Maori isn’t hard to learn. Navajo I think has by far the most fluent speakers in the US among American Indian languages.

It seems to me very complicated. Like if you want to say “give me ….,” there’s a separate verb to use depending on if you’re talking about a round object, a long thin object, an open bottle, an animate thing, and others.

Cherokee is similar that way.
 
Good to hear Maori isn’t hard to learn. Navajo I think has by far the most fluent speakers in the US among American Indian languages.

It seems to me very complicated. Like if you want to say “give me ….,” there’s a separate verb to use depending on if you’re talking about a round object, a long thin object, an open bottle, an animate thing, and others.

Cherokee is similar that way.

Maori uses latin alphabet only uses 26 of those letters and sentence structure very similar to English.

And there's a lot of loan words or close enough. Eg.

Kai= food
Morena=morning (as in good morning)
Kumara= sweet potato (kumara chips/skins rock)
 
I've never read the book, I only know the musical. Javert killed himself because Valjean, in sparing his life, put Javert in an untenable position. Either he could act immorally in turning in a man who saved his life, or he could act immorally in shirking his duty to the law and letting a escaped convict go. He chose an honourable third path. Javert had a huge amount of honour and a noble character.

The character I felt an affinity for in the Dark Knight was the guy who lost half of his face. I don't recall his name, it's been a decade since I saw that movie.
you're halfway there here.

javert's morals meant that the only two choices were both immoral in his worldview. therefore acting morally in his worldview is impossible. the worldview is why he lived. so he decided to end it since with the destruction of his morals, there was nothing left to live for. valjean's act obliterated rigid legalism.

idealizing javert is not just missing the point. it's to declare that when your idiocy is faced with reality, you shouldn't care about reality. it's to choose to not recognize how the world works. to choose to be impractical. to choose to be stupid.

and of course you don't like the joker. that was not my point.
 
The Marae is on their land that's their house their castle. There's all sorts of protocols to visit.
Amazing how some people let a small amount of power go to their heads.
NZs fairly unique in the anglo based countries in the way they treated the natives. Colonialism wasn't great for them but as I said they were never excluded socially.

If you read surviving accounts from the imperial erabthey never really denied the Maori their humanity and their seemed to be respect there at least by the standards of the 19th century.
It almost seems like they respected the Maori more than they respected the Boers. Did the Maori ever get put in concentration camps like the Boers did?
Culturally pre 1980's everyone went to the same schools same events, and rugby. If you have Maori's in your soirt team or workplace they get invited to the after party.

That was in the good old days. It didn't prevent racism but it kept a lid on white supremacists. They're very rare here not saying they don't exist

Conversations countries are having now we had back in the 70's and 80's. NZs opinion on apartheid 1981.


Maori renaissance started in the 70's.
Why? If they were not segregated, why didn't they assimilate and merge with the mainstream population, the way the Huguenots did in South Africa?
Why? NZ has always been more progressive in most ways than the rest in anglosphere. Women got the right to vote 1893 (1920 in USA) one of the first countries to build the welfare state.
I don't think I would like living in NZ very much...
No segregation no apartheid lots of intermarriage between the Maori and Pakeha. Hard to be a white supremacist when your family has Polynesian branches or your kids have Maori ancestry.
The question is whether intermarriage leads to them being assimilated into our group (as with the Huguenots in the Cape Colony), or us being assimilated into their group (what mostly happens in modern day intermarriages - look at Walter Sisulu, who had an English father, or US President Obama, half white, raised by white grandparents, identifies as black). Given the fact that we are vastly outnumbered in South Africa, I do not wish for us to intermarry with the Bantu majority, since it will lead to the end of our existence as a people. It's the same reason that the Jewish minority did not like intermarriage with the Christian majority in medieval Europe...they knew it would lead to the end of their group.
That said, I don't support legal restrictions on intermarriage.
The lack of requirements for native languages in the Canadian public service is more to do with the complexity of having a fair number of different local native languages. Even then there are discussions underway on how to better dupport indigenous languages.
Why? Why not just have the Amerindians learn the mainstream languages?
The "they can just learn English and screw other languages" notion just create a country-wide equivalent of the bland soulless cookie-cutter 1950s neighborhood. Boring.
Better than a multicultural Frankenstein of a nation.
Is the Dutch Reformed Church big in South Africa? I visited a Dutch Reformed Church today since I’m living on Staten Island at the moment and recently found out one of my ancestors was part of a Dutch Reformed Church in New Amsterdam and lived on Staten Island but was French actually. I didn’t know this before since I’m from the South and this was a different branch of the family and it’s just by coincidence I’m in New York.
Yes, over 1 million members.
you're halfway there here.

javert's morals meant that the only two choices were both immoral in his worldview. therefore acting morally in his worldview is impossible. the worldview is why he lived. so he decided to end it since with the destruction of his morals, there was nothing left to live for. valjean's act obliterated rigid legalism.

idealizing javert is not just missing the point. it's to declare that when your idiocy is faced with reality, you shouldn't care about reality. it's to choose to not recognize how the world works. to choose to be impractical. to choose to be stupid.

and of course you don't like the joker. that was not my point.
When you have sworn an oath to an authority, as Javert did (his oath was to enforce the law), it is immoral to act contrary to the oath you have sworn.
 
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