RK-08: Atomic Betty
- Thread starter Meatbuster
- Start date
Hmmm, looks like it's just you and me left here, vra.
I can be persuaded to declare on Mehmed instead of Mao.
I chose Mao mainly because our eastern ocean is narrower than our western ocean. We will begin this invasion without overwhelming land forces so we'll depend on our ability to pump out ground units to ferry to the battle front. The shorter distance will help us out.
I wouldn't be too concerned with Mao's Infantry. We'll be fighting mostly wounded troops if our nuclear launches are successful. If we can build 10 ICBMs prior to declaring and land, say 7 of them -- 2 at Beijing, and one each at the 5 neighboring cities around Beijing -- the city will fall on the first turn by amphibious assault and any nearby potential counterattackers will all be wounded.
On the other hand ...
Mehmed is second in land-mass with around 20% so we could win by domination by capturing half of his territory. I don't understand why we'd want to raze any cities, though. Besides the fact that they pop cultural borders, cities make better beachheads because of their defensive bonuses and because reinforcements disembarking from transports are available for counter-counter-attacking on the turn they arrive in the city, not the turn after they land.
Let's hear your plan and rationale.
I can be persuaded to declare on Mehmed instead of Mao.
I chose Mao mainly because our eastern ocean is narrower than our western ocean. We will begin this invasion without overwhelming land forces so we'll depend on our ability to pump out ground units to ferry to the battle front. The shorter distance will help us out.
I wouldn't be too concerned with Mao's Infantry. We'll be fighting mostly wounded troops if our nuclear launches are successful. If we can build 10 ICBMs prior to declaring and land, say 7 of them -- 2 at Beijing, and one each at the 5 neighboring cities around Beijing -- the city will fall on the first turn by amphibious assault and any nearby potential counterattackers will all be wounded.
On the other hand ...
Mehmed is second in land-mass with around 20% so we could win by domination by capturing half of his territory. I don't understand why we'd want to raze any cities, though. Besides the fact that they pop cultural borders, cities make better beachheads because of their defensive bonuses and because reinforcements disembarking from transports are available for counter-counter-attacking on the turn they arrive in the city, not the turn after they land.
Let's hear your plan and rationale.
Immaculate
unerring
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2003
- Messages
- 7,623
are you the only two players left to actually launch these things?
Okay...Ze plan.
Points to keep in mind:
1) The thing with using Nukes...is beside being messy, cause a -2 whenever you nuke enemy lands/units...and a nice round penalty with everone else, 5 Nukes and the whole world will declare war on us.
2) Tokugawa is Pleased with us, and has spent a good chunk of time at war with Mao and Mehmed. Also, this means these guys all will have well promoted military due to the stalemate.
3) Tokugawa is lacking Railroads.
4) Two Nukes WILL ELIMINATE a stack of ANY SIZE force of enemy Navy. (I playtested this.)
5) Mao and Mehmed have a defensive pact, and the same tech level, so it would be prudent to consider them one big country for the purposes of this.
6) 1/2 of an enemy territory v(and pop?) counts for domination after capitulation.
7) We don't have alot of transports.
8) We have few tanks, but alot of Infantry.
9) Computers obsoletes Sankore AND the Minaret.
10) When War is declared, troops are expelled to the nearest untaken/home square.
So, with that in mind come our military options...I've nicknamed them...
A) The China Card.
B) The Kyoto Accord.
C) The Ottoman O-ssult.
All would see us allowing Wang to capitulate to us (and tacking no city even if he offers one) as soon as we take the continent. And all would see us getting spies over there fast, going through Japan.
First off, we have...
The China Card
As a protective Civ, we'll find trouble here no matter what the era. These guys are industrial powerhouses, and have excellent production capabilites in places our navy can't hit. Also, China has loads of flat land, We invade from our western shores through Gunagzhou, strike to Xian and Hangzhou...while taking heavy fire across plans from Ottoman and Chinese army troops. And, as we only have Infantry and Tanks, we'll be moving at a snails pace where I could see us gettign Gunship blasted. We'll have nukes of course, but beside being messy, will make it hard to get production/population up. I would do it...but I'm not so thrilled over it. I think we've better options on the table.
The Kyoto Accord.
We're short of transports, and the Japs really don't like the other two so much. So, we ferry out troops there then pop across the line somwhere and go raiding. It should be mentioned if they have a ROP with Japan, they can attack us BUT, they cannot bombard cultural defence in cities. Not a bad idea...but, a mixture of a logn border and the fact that every Nuke will raise Japanese paranoia...well, not the best. Better than China Card I'd say.'
The Ottoman O-ssult.
Transport our troops in boatloads to Japan and wait. Raze the two costal cites, build our beachhead, and use the inland sea. Send troops in Japan there to defend/upgrade. Now, they has a few benefits not instantly realized. First off, it's where our army is atm (west coast). Second off, no cultural issues means a fast cultural defence buildup. Then use our forces to secure Zonguldak and Matsuyama and head south. All this time, Chinese and Ottoman troops are fretfully emptying thier lands trying to kill us, and pick them off as they popup. Also, as soon as Toka delclares war, (if he does) our troops are sent to the outskirts of a city which is ours, and suffers no cultural issues. I like this plan the best because it means the war is fought on our terms, and leaves us fighting in the territory of a Civ who's not proctective, and renders the main advantage of the protective one useless as it tries to fight a cross border war. Not to mention, less war weariness for us, MUCH more for China.
Conclusion
My main point is that if we tech to computers, we can get Mech Infantry and Bombers, the first of which will be around 60 Mechs within a turn or two of upgrades. We can start the war with Bombers/Infantry then, by the time we're really into it in 20-30 turns, have Mechs. They are good defenders, good attackers...and have two movement points. If we go into China, I guarentee you they will clam, and give thier troops the City Defence trait. Not to mention the Ottoman force. And, we can't Nuke everything...3 troops = 1 Nuke from London...
Points to keep in mind:
1) The thing with using Nukes...is beside being messy, cause a -2 whenever you nuke enemy lands/units...and a nice round penalty with everone else, 5 Nukes and the whole world will declare war on us.
2) Tokugawa is Pleased with us, and has spent a good chunk of time at war with Mao and Mehmed. Also, this means these guys all will have well promoted military due to the stalemate.
3) Tokugawa is lacking Railroads.
4) Two Nukes WILL ELIMINATE a stack of ANY SIZE force of enemy Navy. (I playtested this.)
5) Mao and Mehmed have a defensive pact, and the same tech level, so it would be prudent to consider them one big country for the purposes of this.
6) 1/2 of an enemy territory v(and pop?) counts for domination after capitulation.
7) We don't have alot of transports.
8) We have few tanks, but alot of Infantry.
9) Computers obsoletes Sankore AND the Minaret.
10) When War is declared, troops are expelled to the nearest untaken/home square.
So, with that in mind come our military options...I've nicknamed them...
A) The China Card.
B) The Kyoto Accord.
C) The Ottoman O-ssult.
All would see us allowing Wang to capitulate to us (and tacking no city even if he offers one) as soon as we take the continent. And all would see us getting spies over there fast, going through Japan.
First off, we have...
The China Card
As a protective Civ, we'll find trouble here no matter what the era. These guys are industrial powerhouses, and have excellent production capabilites in places our navy can't hit. Also, China has loads of flat land, We invade from our western shores through Gunagzhou, strike to Xian and Hangzhou...while taking heavy fire across plans from Ottoman and Chinese army troops. And, as we only have Infantry and Tanks, we'll be moving at a snails pace where I could see us gettign Gunship blasted. We'll have nukes of course, but beside being messy, will make it hard to get production/population up. I would do it...but I'm not so thrilled over it. I think we've better options on the table.
The Kyoto Accord.
We're short of transports, and the Japs really don't like the other two so much. So, we ferry out troops there then pop across the line somwhere and go raiding. It should be mentioned if they have a ROP with Japan, they can attack us BUT, they cannot bombard cultural defence in cities. Not a bad idea...but, a mixture of a logn border and the fact that every Nuke will raise Japanese paranoia...well, not the best. Better than China Card I'd say.'
The Ottoman O-ssult.
Transport our troops in boatloads to Japan and wait. Raze the two costal cites, build our beachhead, and use the inland sea. Send troops in Japan there to defend/upgrade. Now, they has a few benefits not instantly realized. First off, it's where our army is atm (west coast). Second off, no cultural issues means a fast cultural defence buildup. Then use our forces to secure Zonguldak and Matsuyama and head south. All this time, Chinese and Ottoman troops are fretfully emptying thier lands trying to kill us, and pick them off as they popup. Also, as soon as Toka delclares war, (if he does) our troops are sent to the outskirts of a city which is ours, and suffers no cultural issues. I like this plan the best because it means the war is fought on our terms, and leaves us fighting in the territory of a Civ who's not proctective, and renders the main advantage of the protective one useless as it tries to fight a cross border war. Not to mention, less war weariness for us, MUCH more for China.
Conclusion
My main point is that if we tech to computers, we can get Mech Infantry and Bombers, the first of which will be around 60 Mechs within a turn or two of upgrades. We can start the war with Bombers/Infantry then, by the time we're really into it in 20-30 turns, have Mechs. They are good defenders, good attackers...and have two movement points. If we go into China, I guarentee you they will clam, and give thier troops the City Defence trait. Not to mention the Ottoman force. And, we can't Nuke everything...3 troops = 1 Nuke from London...
Yes, Immac, it looks like it's just vra and me remaining.
I see what you're trying to do, vra, by razing the two coastal cities and building our own beachhead city. That then opens up two additional inland cities as being accessible to our navy through the inland sea. The downside I see to your plan is that it targets smaller cities, leaving Mehmed's 3 best cities alone to pump out counter-attackers.
I think you can pull it off but I like the idea of taking out China's 3 best cities first, not 5 of Mehmed's smaller cities.
I see what you're trying to do, vra, by razing the two coastal cities and building our own beachhead city. That then opens up two additional inland cities as being accessible to our navy through the inland sea. The downside I see to your plan is that it targets smaller cities, leaving Mehmed's 3 best cities alone to pump out counter-attackers.
I think you can pull it off but I like the idea of taking out China's 3 best cities first, not 5 of Mehmed's smaller cities.
Okay, sign me up for your Ottoman O-sault. Just make sure you've got some kind of reaction force on our east coast to handle any Chinese landings that are sure to occur.
I wouldn't worry about ferrying units to Japan first. Just load up all the transports we can muster and build nukes like there is no tomorrow. This war could be over long before we get mechanized infantry. Our production is likely to fall off a bit as global warming/nuclear winter is caused by our nukes. But so will the rest of the world's production and GNP.
I concur with the 15-turn plan. You're up. Make it happen.
I wouldn't worry about ferrying units to Japan first. Just load up all the transports we can muster and build nukes like there is no tomorrow. This war could be over long before we get mechanized infantry. Our production is likely to fall off a bit as global warming/nuclear winter is caused by our nukes. But so will the rest of the world's production and GNP.
I concur with the 15-turn plan. You're up. Make it happen.
FeedBack
Time for some FeedBack!
Well, just something I'd like to contribute, even if I won't be able to play...
Consider building airports. With them, we can lift 1 unit/turn to a city overseas. It's good to use when you take at least two cities and are planning to get the others. You can reinforce all cities every turn and group any SoD's you may want in less than half of the time it'd take to ferry by sea...
Just my 2 cents. And sorry to leave you guys so near the end...
Consider building airports. With them, we can lift 1 unit/turn to a city overseas. It's good to use when you take at least two cities and are planning to get the others. You can reinforce all cities every turn and group any SoD's you may want in less than half of the time it'd take to ferry by sea...
Just my 2 cents. And sorry to leave you guys so near the end...
Well, I played it...and here's the report. Oh, and nevermind my previous comment. Let's take 10 turns each. This is going to be long and hard...
They say nothing ever goes the way you want it in life. It seems Civ shows an eerie resemblance. While our invasion was flawless, and we lost nary a troop, our issues in the Atlantic...let's just say all goes mostly well, and we have a small situation to contain...anyway...
I executed the assault flawlessly. I used the 2 ICBMs to weaken the targets, and settled on a farm in an optimum defensive city spot. I also took sometime to steal Ottoman military plans...all to say is that they are bulding wells...and well...I suspect they REALLY don't like us in Ottoman lands. Also, I sent over a transport of Marines...do with them what you will.
The thing is, here's where things got interesting. You might notice in that save I'm only at war with the Ottomans. This is because China had attacked Japan, severing the pact. However, because I wanted China to have a headache when they attacked Japan, I decleared to draw away the Chinese troops and stop a possible Capitulation. The spy that is observing the battle is seeing Tanks and Marines against Riflemen. So...I made a highly unsual move. In the hopes of saving our allies in the north, I gave them the techs needed to get Infantry. And about 500 gold in upgrade cash. They'll need more to stop the advance over there, as if he fully upgrades the troops which he's been doing and send in a medic, the Japanese capital shold hold long enough to send him help.
I can't say as many good things of the Battle of the Atlantic. I set up a massive dragnet of navy troops...and was basically fighting frantically throughout the turnset playing at all times for the highest postive outcome. I was slaughtering enemy Navy left and right as I the Battleship heavy plan payed dividends. Unfortunately, I was unable to stop all the invasions in time as i simply didn't have enough ships to kill the approaching Transports/Destroyers that simply came at us from every direction in the Atlantic. When you load the save you'll see what I mean by our nautical trouble. Not that you'll need to look as far as the previously Ottoman lands to find it.
As for why...
China captured Siguna.
*sighs while absorbing the boos*
They landed 3 Artillery, 2 marines and an Infantry. Against a Redcoat. I upgraded him and added a tank hoping to call thier bluff..meh...nope.
That said, life is looking up on the whole.
During the turnset, I teched up to Computers - losing three amazing wonders at the same time wasn't fun - and built the beginings of a Air Force. As for our new Air Force, it's been rebased in the other city in the south east island, waiting to bomb any approaching troops, as well as support a quick retaking of Sigtuna, which the kindly Chinese kept.
China did manage to land a force at the paddock north-east of Roskilde. But that I have no doubt will hold. You may want to hurry another garrison over there if you have concerns. Either way, the only way OUT of that paddock is throguh the city, and they are NOT going through there. By Zeus they're not!
Anyway, the basic plan I had in mind was a quick recapture of Siguna and defence of Roskilde. I'd think one tank would be enough while you bomb them to near death. Then, rebase mabye all but three in our new city on the other continent. Meanwhile kill off Ottoman troops as they come to ye doorstep and get ready for the mass upgrade to Mech Infantry in 5 to 7 turns. Oh, please be light on the Nukes. They have a terrain Penalty of minus two which means our upgrades mech infantry will still move like snails. Increase the airports and conquer man =)
Oh...and the clock is ticking...we've 100 turns...see ya in ten!
They say nothing ever goes the way you want it in life. It seems Civ shows an eerie resemblance. While our invasion was flawless, and we lost nary a troop, our issues in the Atlantic...let's just say all goes mostly well, and we have a small situation to contain...anyway...
I executed the assault flawlessly. I used the 2 ICBMs to weaken the targets, and settled on a farm in an optimum defensive city spot. I also took sometime to steal Ottoman military plans...all to say is that they are bulding wells...and well...I suspect they REALLY don't like us in Ottoman lands. Also, I sent over a transport of Marines...do with them what you will.
The thing is, here's where things got interesting. You might notice in that save I'm only at war with the Ottomans. This is because China had attacked Japan, severing the pact. However, because I wanted China to have a headache when they attacked Japan, I decleared to draw away the Chinese troops and stop a possible Capitulation. The spy that is observing the battle is seeing Tanks and Marines against Riflemen. So...I made a highly unsual move. In the hopes of saving our allies in the north, I gave them the techs needed to get Infantry. And about 500 gold in upgrade cash. They'll need more to stop the advance over there, as if he fully upgrades the troops which he's been doing and send in a medic, the Japanese capital shold hold long enough to send him help.
I can't say as many good things of the Battle of the Atlantic. I set up a massive dragnet of navy troops...and was basically fighting frantically throughout the turnset playing at all times for the highest postive outcome. I was slaughtering enemy Navy left and right as I the Battleship heavy plan payed dividends. Unfortunately, I was unable to stop all the invasions in time as i simply didn't have enough ships to kill the approaching Transports/Destroyers that simply came at us from every direction in the Atlantic. When you load the save you'll see what I mean by our nautical trouble. Not that you'll need to look as far as the previously Ottoman lands to find it.
As for why...
China captured Siguna.
*sighs while absorbing the boos*
They landed 3 Artillery, 2 marines and an Infantry. Against a Redcoat. I upgraded him and added a tank hoping to call thier bluff..meh...nope.
That said, life is looking up on the whole.
During the turnset, I teched up to Computers - losing three amazing wonders at the same time wasn't fun - and built the beginings of a Air Force. As for our new Air Force, it's been rebased in the other city in the south east island, waiting to bomb any approaching troops, as well as support a quick retaking of Sigtuna, which the kindly Chinese kept.
China did manage to land a force at the paddock north-east of Roskilde. But that I have no doubt will hold. You may want to hurry another garrison over there if you have concerns. Either way, the only way OUT of that paddock is throguh the city, and they are NOT going through there. By Zeus they're not!
Anyway, the basic plan I had in mind was a quick recapture of Siguna and defence of Roskilde. I'd think one tank would be enough while you bomb them to near death. Then, rebase mabye all but three in our new city on the other continent. Meanwhile kill off Ottoman troops as they come to ye doorstep and get ready for the mass upgrade to Mech Infantry in 5 to 7 turns. Oh, please be light on the Nukes. They have a terrain Penalty of minus two which means our upgrades mech infantry will still move like snails. Increase the airports and conquer man =)
Oh...and the clock is ticking...we've 100 turns...see ya in ten!
Admiral Kutzov
Idiot Emeritus
lurker's comment:
re the airports, if there is one in the receiving city, you can dump as many units as you want in there each turn
can't wait to see the pix
re the airports, if there is one in the receiving city, you can dump as many units as you want in there each turn
Immaculate
unerring
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2003
- Messages
- 7,623
Haha- you finally launched the nukes.
You have made history gentlemen.
You have made history gentlemen.
I know! And gosh isn't making history fun. Which reminds me. By the looks of things Frankor, we've aroud 3 turns to move before the Japanese capital will face the full Chinese force. If you lead a bombing raid then rebase say half our invasion force in Samsun, our bombers will be able to save Kyoto as well as still hit any targets in the area.
Only 2 nukes!?!?!
I'll work on building bombers and units to defend our shores, our beach head and Japan's capital, while building nukes everywhere else. Piece of cake
I want nukes nukes nukes! Nuke enough cities and the waves of counterattackers will dry up and wither away.
I'll work on building bombers and units to defend our shores, our beach head and Japan's capital, while building nukes everywhere else. Piece of cake
I want nukes nukes nukes! Nuke enough cities and the waves of counterattackers will dry up and wither away.
I want Nukes too...but...not too much of a good thing...
The waves of counterattackers will heal up while the fallout will cause us to move 1 square a turn. Otoh...50 Bombers which we can have in 10 turns weaken enemy troops in a similar fashion without that nasty fallout...plus a few ICBM's mixed in for good measure when we need to get in somewhere fast.
Anyway, the Japanese situation is reaching critical. Unless we want them to capitulate, we're going to have to move fast to bomb the Chinese stacks in Japan. We need to Nuke Samsun and move in Marines and Infantry next turn so we can rebase and bomb by the turn after.
That, and another gold donation to Japan may not be amiss.
The waves of counterattackers will heal up while the fallout will cause us to move 1 square a turn. Otoh...50 Bombers which we can have in 10 turns weaken enemy troops in a similar fashion without that nasty fallout...plus a few ICBM's mixed in for good measure when we need to get in somewhere fast.
Anyway, the Japanese situation is reaching critical. Unless we want them to capitulate, we're going to have to move fast to bomb the Chinese stacks in Japan. We need to Nuke Samsun and move in Marines and Infantry next turn so we can rebase and bomb by the turn after.
That, and another gold donation to Japan may not be amiss.
