P666-04 : Yet Another Trash Game

[Cam_H]

^ No no ... it's your baby now!

I will still complete my P666-04 ... hopefully in the next day or two. I still think that there's life in P666-04 if Öjevind thinks his game is trashy and needs a round to fix it.

Can I substitute in and out of the game (play the occasional round)? If that's unacceptable to you guys, then it's perfectly acceptable to me.

 

[FeedBack]

I'm in, of course. And I think cabert is the right choice for leader if Cam doesn't want to. I just put myself as a name if no one else would want (or if cabert's wife requests him too).

@Mice: I was talking about the size of the turnsets. I was running away from work, so I couldn't review the post.

So, let's talk about the next game.
Leader: Stalin is good. Cossacks and wonders!
Map: Small is consensus. But I think continents isn't a good idea. One continent will have 3 civs and the other 2 civs. If we get the 2-civ continent, it's almost an isolated start. Maybe lakes. What do you think?
Speed: normal is ok for me!

About Monarch+ players... Well, if we advertise on the new SG's thread we may be able to grab some.

 

[pigswill]

I'll give it a whirl once I've finished gotm6 (end date March 15 so not too far away). Hopefully Cam_H will be able to join in.

I'd rather play standard than small map. Normal speed (seem to have been playing several games on epic) coz we'll get to the end of the game in fewer turns. Continents is a pretty standard map script.

In terms of leaders I ain't too bothered with a specific leader but I'd like to play a leader with spiritual for easy civics changes.

 

[mice]

Yes I agree that small continents is weird. Small only came up because I misunderstood you. Normal speed for me too.

Trash thread must include Cam . The substitute in and out is OK with me.

 

[cabert]

Yes I agree that small continents is weird. Small only came up because I misunderstood you. Normal speed for me too.

Trash thread must include Cam . The substitute in and out is OK with me.

ok, so either standard continents or small pangea/terra?
And cam, don't be shy. You're welcome to play (or not) any and every round.

Pigswill wants a spiritual leader.
There are 2 leaders with which I have never won :
- Saladin that I've never played at all
- Brennus which I lost with in RK's SG.
Ho, there is ramses too, but I have cam's great initial save to try again. I think a cultural victory is due for this one.
I seem to play a lot of spiritual civs in my (rare now) solo games.
To be true, I am never playing for anything else than cultural, when I play a spiritual leader .


So we have a roster with
- cabert (hey if I open the thread, I deserve to be in front )
- Pigswill
- mice
- Fbelintani
- Öjevind
- 1/2 cam_h

that 5 1/2 players.
Not really enough.

I agree with cam about Öjevind's game. If there is something to "fix" we may just as well finish it.

 

[FeedBack]

Well, can I have a request then? As it will be my first Monarch game, could we do it with a... uh... more powerful leader? Saladin is Protective and Brennus is Charismatic. Can I request Gandhi or Mansa Musa? Philosophical and Financial are traits I can handle better... Especially Philosophical.

As a "vote", I'd like a small pangaea/terra map. You know... Public defeat is not a good thing!

 

[mice]

I agree, small sounds good for pangea or terra could be fun. About leader, I guess that Pigswill requested a spiritual leader partly because that way you can switch back out of "bad" civic choices after taking on someone elses save. Stalin sounded fresh to me though. And then there's cossacks

 

[cabert]

Well, can I have a request then? As it will be my first Monarch game, could we do it with a... uh... more powerful leader? Saladin is Protective and Brennus is Charismatic. Can I request Gandhi or Mansa Musa? Philosophical and Financial are traits I can handle better... Especially Philosophical.

As a "vote", I'd like a small pangaea/terra map. You know... Public defeat is not a good thing!

there will be no defeat (at least I hope not)
Monarch isn't that hard, and with a focus on war, it's becoming easy.

I agree, small sounds good for pangea or terra could be fun. About leader, I guess that Pigswill requested a spiritual leader partly because that way you can switch back out of "bad" civic choices after taking on someone elses save. Stalin sounded fresh to me though. And then there's cossacks

spiritual is the most powerful trait IMHO.
but I would have enjoyed a Stalin game certainly.

What do you say, Pigswill?
What do you say, Ojevind?
What do you say, Cam?

 

[Cam_H]

What do you say, Cam?

Well I half-feel as though I've conceded away my right to determine anything much about P666-05 in light of the waivering position on my involvement!

But seeing that I was asked ...

I've always believed that the game set up for this P666 series should be reasonably close to the default settings because the further you stray from these, the more you distort the game, and I'm concerned that for what was intended to be 'a good general learning experience' becomes a bit too affected by the irregularities that might stem from strange map settings. A bit of variation doesn't concern me (e.g. P666-04 on Low Sea Level Panagea) but for my money I think that some maps will push you towards certain map-specific strategies, and I'm not sure if that's all that helpful.

Personally I'd go back to a Space Race victory condition instead of a Domination because P666-04 was so war-oriented that a developmental game with a bit more focus on triangular diplomacy could be good. If that was the plan, then I'd accommodate fbelintani and select Mahatma Gandhi as the leader for P666-05 ... for the reasons set out already; Spiritual has its attractions for this type of game. Philosphical will put a greater slant on Great People use and the Farm Economy, and given that the game's going to Monarch, the lightbulbing of Great People will be a useful learning topic. You start with the 'Fast Worker', so no bee-lines for the UU needed, while the Mausoleum is just 'ever so useful' so no need for a bee-line there either I'd suggest!

For a Spiritual leader with less dominant traits than Gandhi's Philosophical, I'd consider Asoka (Organised) or Isabella (Expansive).

With all that said, if the 'pure' educational thing isn't really what the roster's after, then that's fine. If the decision is to play on a non-standard map or play with a self-imposed game variant then that's more than OK by me.

b.t.w. ... I'm another one who's never played as Stalin! If the verdict is a Stalin-lead Domination shot, then that's fine too.

 

[pigswill]

Gandhi for space, Asoka for war.
Still going for standard continents.

 

[Roland Johansen]

Hello everyone here.

I was informed by Cabert that you were playing a special variant of a succession game here. He invited me to join you, so I read a bit through the threads. I understand the concepts of the game and it sounds interesting and fun.

Let me introduce myself first. I've been playing civ since civ 1 and am very familiar with the game. I regularly answer questions in the quick answers/ 'newbie' questions thread and also like to join in some strategy discussions about the game. I normally play huge maps on the epic game speed at the immortal level. So I don't think that monarch level should be a problem, but I'll be unfamiliar with the map size and speed settings. I usually play a moderately aggressive game. I'm not the type to attack with my first units, but if I see an advantage in war, then I'll wage war. On the other hand, I also want to develop the cities in my empire. So I'm something inbetween a builder and a warmonger. This will also be the first succession game that I join, so that will also be new ground for me. If you're willing to have me in the team, then I'm willing to join.

Since I'm the newbie in this group, I won't voice a strong opinion about the game settings. You regulars may decide that. However, as the goal seems to be a learning experience, I would like to suggest a multiple continent type of map. You're missing a part of the game strategy if you're never forced to use the oceans and if you can get contact with everyone early in the game. The chance of another island/continent with strong opponents with a different religion adds another dimension to the game. It also means that some luxury or food resources are not available on your starting continent and you will thus need astronomy to get those resources. This can be hard if they don't share your religion.

I'll follow the discussion here and see where it goes. See you around.

 

[mice]

Gandhi for space, Asoka for war.
Still going for standard continents.

Same for me. You're right about standard continents ,and I favour space/Gandhi.

It's great news Roland Johansen . Roland got me started with great answers in the Newie question thread, many moons ago.

 

[Cam_H]

Well you didn't need Nostradamus to predict that the developmental build towards Infantry would take more time and lead to a delayed 'outcome' than the ruthless drafting and whipping of Riflemen - although 'clicks' for those of you who successfully went this path!

If anyone gives a "hoot" (or substitute own term at your pleasure), please find attached an 1820AD game as much promised.

I decided to avoid Rifling rather than racing for it, thereby being able to churn out City Raider Macemen > Grenadiers > Infantry. I'm also about to get The Kremlin. Furthermore - I took Railroad, which gave me a productivity boost from select tiles and the 'can't touch this' Machine Guns.

Despite all of these good intentions and seemingly reasonable measures, it's clear that when the 'chips are down' that a 'firm hand' (go with Rifles) was the better option.

If people want to press on with this as the Trash Game, then I certainly understand. I've got a fair slab of the turf, but plenty still to go. I bribed Genghis to fight Mao (for Communism).

 

[cabert]

so next game is gandhi for space, warlords 2.08 monarch, standard continent, with Roland as life vest
Welcome aboard Roland.

And Cam, I see no trash to save. Just a little slower conquest.
Do you want me to finish your game? Too lazy to do it yourself?
I'll give it a try. Shouldn't be long.

 

[pigswill]

I'm wondering if we're established enough to set up a thread for discussing future games, series in general, recruiting players etc. It would keep the game threads uncluttered. We could call it 'The Trash Talk Thread'.

 

[Cam_H]

I'm confident that this game is won ... it's very much as you say ... "slower".

I think that the big lesson here is that there's no need to build towards what I would describe as Twentieth Century units (Artillery, Infantry, Marines) if you're well set up for an Industrial Age victory. I was lacking confidence in Grenadiers and Cannons when I saw Genghis' Cav's, and felt that another step was required.

I'm sort of keen to see Öjevind's game if he's nervous about whether victory is likely ...

 

[cabert]

I'm wondering if we're established enough to set up a thread for discussing future games, series in general, recruiting players etc. It would keep the game threads uncluttered. We could call it 'The Trash Talk Thread'.

There was a thread leading to this serie. We could just go back there

 

[futurehermit]

Well, can I have a request then? As it will be my first Monarch game, could we do it with a... uh... more powerful leader? Saladin is Protective and Brennus is Charismatic. Can I request Gandhi or Mansa Musa? Philosophical and Financial are traits I can handle better... Especially Philosophical.

As a "vote", I'd like a small pangaea/terra map. You know... Public defeat is not a good thing!

charismatic weak? it's one of the most powerful traits in the game!!!

 

[cabert]

I'm confident that this game is won ... it's very much as you say ... "slower".

I think that the big lesson here is that there's no need to build towards what I would describe as Twentieth Century units (Artillery, Infantry, Marines) if you're well set up for an Industrial Age victory. I was lacking confidence in Grenadiers and Cannons when I saw Genghis' Cav's, and felt that another step was required.

I'm sort of keen to see Öjevind's game if he's nervous about whether victory is likely ...

I failed to reach conquest playing from your save
I hit domination after vassalizing mao. Should have razed everything (instead of gifting it back to mao) when I hit GK.
Side note : to build infantry, you need rifling!

 

[Cam_H]

Thanks for playing!

Re. Rifling; I was putting out City Raider Macemen with the view to upgrading to Grenadiers immediately for as long as practicable, and Infantry once I acquired Rifling. Rifling would have put an end to my City Raider promotions for a while (excl. Cannons).

[Edit] Reading my earlier post I see that I wasn't that clear in articulating my thinking. [/Edit]