Requests for new components (and features)

[Refar]

Citizen Automation + Forced Specialists (Assign a specialist while citizen governor is on and the governor will only assign specialists of the same type).

I know there is a lot of rant about automation. And it is fully justified an the Auto Wokers. But in the case of citizen governor it must be from people who never tried (seeing how many people not even know how it works). Because the governor does work nearly perfect - he will respond -mostly in a correct manner- to forced specialist, city specialization, happiness and grow issues.

Take a big city and play around with forced buttons, city focus and no growth buttons to get a feel to how the governor will respond. You have of course still to check regulary (and in very rare cases disable and override the automation) but most of the time it will do exactly what you need.

+ cities like GPP farm, where you care about the specialists te most are generally easy to manage - you want all food you get and lots of specialists. Set food+gpp focus and force specialists of the types you want, to avoid spies being assigned.

 

[EmperorFool]

I use the governor quite a bit, actually, if you include the avoid growth feature.

I'll give the emphasize buttons an honest try, though.

 

[Eunomiac]

Wow, I'm glad my suggestions were so well received! Now you've given me the confidence to dump more on you:

Revamped Strategy Layer: The Holy Grail of BUG Mod features, so shrouded in distilled awesome that I had resigned myself to its impossibility. The strategy layer as-is sucks. No, that's being generous: it's the crowning embarrassment of the Civ franchise. The most sophisticated strategy game in computer history offers a strategy layer that can't be viewed in combination with resource flagging, can't be viewed zoomed-in, has a cloud layer obscuring everything by default and provides a single crayon for your planning. Here is what I would step over my own mother to see:

• a city BFC shape that you can plop down in the strategy layer, for in-game dot-mapping. That hashed BFC overlay that appears when you select a Settler would be perfect.
• little tokens you can drop on tiles to identify things like which forests you want to save for lumbermills, or farms you want to switch to watermills, or blockade points for military invasion, etc. These tokens could be as simple as circles with the letters of the alphabet in them, leaving remembering what means what to the player.
• the ability to hide the strategy layer when you don't need it
• the ability to flag resources (Ctrl-R) while in the strategy layer
• the ability to zoom in with the strategy layer active

Who v who - I have the same issue and answer that by hovering over the numbers and working from that. Any graphical suggestions on how to answer this question? [re: Diplomacy Advisor Glance tab]

Comparing the Glance and Relations tabs, the only things the Glance tab has that the Relations tab doesn't are the attitude numbers. These numbers hardly take up much real estate, so I can't help but think there must be some way of incorporating those numbers into the Relations tab and removing the Glance tab altogether. I have little experience with those monster 25 opponent games, though, during which the Relations tab gets rather cluttered already.

Alternatively, a title line could be added to each of the pop-ups that appear when you hover over the attitude totals: "Suleiman is Annoyed with Montezuma," followed by all of the attitude modifiers explaining why. A simple reminder across the top of the Glance tab could read: "The listed attitudes run FROM top TO left" or something.

Someone else mentioned this. I'm sure it is a feature request in our sourcesave listing (somewhere).

Hmm... sourcesave listing? Where is this? It would save me from repeating suggestions in the future.

A small request about reminders: a option to set a reminder-like for when another civ(s) gets a certain tech.

There must be a set of formulaic text entries that go into the log whenever certain things happen, so perhaps a trigger system could be constructed off of these text entries? That would allow all sorts of fun triggers, of the following form: "whenever X would be entered into the log, alert me with message pop-up Y". Holy moly, that would be sweetness incarnate.

re: Tech Diplomacy Advisor Definitely not skipping this, but I see the discussion has been moved to another thread, where I will head next!

Do you use the SVN version of BUG or the 3.0 (or BAT 1.0) release? IIRC, I made some alterations after the release that help here. Instead of the "show next turn" option when a reminder pops up, it asks "show again at end of turn?" and if you say yes, it appears again and then you can have it show next turn too.

I just started using the SVN version, and just noticed this change. VERY helpful! It's already saved me from leaving a 1-pop city stagnating for a hundred years with the Artist specialist I used for an early border pop...

Honestly, though, this solves the minimized-at-end-of-turn problem as far as I'm concerned. If it's really that complex to go all the way to icon-at-right, I'd consider this a low priority. The repetition thing, though, that would be huge!

Glad to have bug reports as well as new features, so thanks! And it feels great to hear from users that like the mod so much. So thanks again!

I kind of told a lie when I said I'd post a few bugs. I'm not entirely sure if they've been fixed in more current builds, or if they're BAT Mod vs. BUG Mod vs. Civ IV core stuff, so I was going to hold off until I saw them again. While I'm here, I'll just list them very briefly and perhaps you can indicate which ones I should report in full:

• circling intercepting fighters remain circling in the air after the carrier moved away (just the graphic; the carrier still contains three usable jets)
• while playing germany, the maceman icon appeared as an archer icon (though a very pretty germanic knight appears when I finally train the maceman)
• python callback errors when I try to hover over fighters, airships or (IIRC) guided missiles, though the game didn't last long enough to test it on later air units
• the contact-by-leader screen is too small to contain some of the longer diplomacy text in BAT
• Civ4lerts regularly informs me that the civ I'm at war with is willing to trade techs with me
• inaccurate "worst enemy of..." lines appearing in the hover pop-ups in the Diplomacy Glance screen

Ah, I so rarely have the governor on, but I have seen that yellow outline on a specialist after adding one before, but I didn't connect the two.

The specific idea for a yellow outline just popped into my head, image and all. I suspect I too have seen this before, and my subconscious diligently retrieved it for this suggestion. Interesting how the mind works

I also suspect Eunomiac wants this feature to work without the governor.

Yeah, definitely, though later posts in this thread have convinced me to give the governor another try.

When the governor is turned off, I think specialists are simply assigned in order, starting at the top with the infuriatingly useless Spy specialist. If code limitations prevent changing this general behavior, maybe an interim fix could be as simple as changing the order of specialists to something more reflective of general play? Perhaps Engineer could come first (if you have a Forge in your city, it's a good chance you want the extra hammers), followed by Merchants. I'm sure everyone has differing opinions on which specialists are most important, but I'm equally sure that (almost) everyone would agree that Engineer --> Merchant --> Merchant is superior to Spy --> Spy --> Spy

Or maybe an alert could be added to Civ4lerts for whenever the computer automatically assigns a specialist on its own in one of your cities. Maybe the alert could even be limited to auto-assignments of Spy Specialists (which is rarely intended by the player, I assume):

Berlin grew to size 12.
Berlin hired a SPY SPECIALIST.

Okay, I'm going to take a break from posting to play a bit of Civ IV. Then I'll head over to the tech tree thread.

 

[ruff_hi]

Revamped Strategy Layer

See here.

... so perhaps a trigger system could be constructed off of these text entries?

This is the most annoying part of american english that I know. The 'off of' just drives me crazy [rant on!] ... ... what is wrong with 'constructed off these text entries' for goodness sake. The 'of' is totally redundant and, worst than that ... sounds stoopid, totally stoopid!!![/rant off]

phew - feel better now - another fine post. I like (most) of it.

 

[jray]

Or maybe an alert could be added to Civ4lerts for whenever the computer automatically assigns a specialist on its own in one of your cities.

Berlin grew to size 12.
Berlin hired a SPY SPECIALIST.

That's an awesome idea. Better yet, it could alert you about all new citizens, for example:

Berlin grew to size 12, now working Mine with 1 3 1.

I spend a lot of time double-checking each new citizen, and this would save most of that time. I donno if you can do that kind of thing in Python, but it'd be cool!

 

[EmperorFool]

Comparing the Glance and Relations tabs, the only things the Glance tab has that the Relations tab doesn't are the attitude numbers.

I must disagree with you here. The entire reason for the Glance tab is to see all relations at a glance. The Relations tab requires you to click on each leader to get an overall picture of the geopolitical situation. The numbers themselves are incidental (I'll be adding an option to remove them eventually) given that there are hidden modifiers that affect the displayed attitude.

Alternatively, a title line could be added to each of the pop-ups that appear when you hover over the attitude totals: "Suleiman is Annoyed with Montezuma," followed by all of the attitude modifiers explaining why.

Am I missing something? The hover already shows this when you point at an attitude number. Regardless, the only way to change hover text is to create a new DLL. It's on the board, but I just haven't had the time yet, and that makes it much harder for users to merge BUG with their other favorite mods (Revolutions, Better AI, unofficial patches, etc).

Hmm... sourcesave listing? Where is this?

Click on SF.net in my sig and select Trackers : Bugs (or Feature Requests) in the menu along the top.

There must be a set of formulaic text entries that go into the log whenever certain things happen, so perhaps a trigger system could be constructed off of these text entries?

This is how Autolog works, and we could certainly add more Civ4lerts.

Honestly, though, this solves the minimized-at-end-of-turn problem as far as I'm concerned.

There's far more coolness in store for this when I can get around to it, but I don't want to let the cat out of the bag yet.

circling intercepting fighters

Not BUG or BAT. This must be an engine issue like units running in from off-screen when moving just a single tile, even walking across water sometimes. Look out, it's Jesus, and he's brought a sword!

while playing germany, the maceman icon appeared as an archer icon (though a very pretty germanic knight appears when I finally train the maceman)

This could be BAT (Varietas Delectat). Please submit a bug to the tracker or better yet, check out VD's form first if you don't mind.

python callback errors when I try to hover over fighters . . .

BUG bug. Fixed in SVN. Maybe just the new core branch. If so available soon.

the contact-by-leader screen is too small to contain some of the longer diplomacy text in BAT

Civ's fault. I suppose we could shorten the diplomacy texts in BAT. 1, 2, 3, not it! Actually, like all of the BAT stuff, those came from another mod. We could still fix it, but better to fix it in the original mod if it's still supported.

Civ4lerts regularly informs me that the civ I'm at war with is willing to trade techs with me

Yeah, I never liked that much either. I have considered adding code to inform Civ that players at war aren't likely to trade techs. It needs to be fixed in both Civ4lerts and the Tech Trade tab. How about this as a message?

Monty has learned Biology and taunts you from afar with its farm-improving goodness. If you were at peace, he probably wouldn't trade it to you, so you might as well pry it from his cold, dead hands.​

inaccurate "worst enemy of..." lines appearing in the hover pop-ups in the Diplomacy Glance screen[/code]

Really? That's a Civ (hover text) issue, and I'm not running 3.17 yet, but could you post a screenshot anyway?

Or maybe an alert could be added to Civ4lerts for whenever the computer automatically assigns a specialist on its own in one of your cities.

That's an awesome idea. Better yet, it could alert you about all new citizens, for example:

Berlin grew to size 12, now working Mine with 1 3 1.

What I discussed above (store state of all citizens for each city) would enable this feature. I'd have to find all the events during which it makes sense to compare the state of your cities to the saved state.

This would make a great addition to Civ4lerts.

 

[Eunomiac]

I must disagree with you here. The entire reason for the Glance tab is to see all relations at a glance.

Makes sense.

Am I missing something? The hover already shows this when you point at an attitude number.

Er, right. It does indeed. I don't think I missed it, as much as assumed that was the source of my confusion while I was writing my last post.

I think I get confused because I'm used to reading left-to-right, and so the first icons I read are those at left. Then I have to switch everything around in my head to read the numbers as "top feels X attitude to left." Perhaps the vertical icons could be moved to the right side of the screen, and a little "down-then-right" arrow added just beneath each of the top leaderhead icons (like a reflected "Enter" key arrow). Having just looked at the screen, I think something as simple as moving them onto the right side might make the whole Glance tab more intuitively clear — the arrow might not be necessary.

Civ's fault. I suppose we could shorten the diplomacy texts in BAT. 1, 2, 3, not it! Actually, like all of the BAT stuff, those came from another mod. We could still fix it, but better to fix it in the original mod if it's still supported.

Hrm, but I like the authentic-sounding diplomacy text! ;-) Would it be possible to expand the width of the window a bit, or is that not doable without changing DLLs or SDKs or other acronyms?

How about this as a message?

Monty has learned Biology and taunts you from afar with its farm-improving goodness. If you were at peace, he probably wouldn't trade it to you, so you might as well pry it from his cold, dead hands.​

*snort* Monty? Tech something everyone else hadn't scored a century ago? More like:

Monty has learned Paper and taunts you from afar with its map-making goodness. He probably wouldn't trade it to you even if you hadn't already mastered Fission, so you can safely ignore him while he hurls Pikemen at your Panzers.​

I'll get the rest of those bugs in tomorrow!

 

[EmperorFool]

Having just looked at the [Glance tab] screen, I think something as simple as moving them onto the right side might make the whole Glance tab more intuitively clear — the arrow might not be necessary.

Hmm, I suppose that could work. I've been tempted to redo this screen for a long time to fix outstanding issues (doesn't draw correctly when you aren't player 0) and add more features and a new layout.

One such feature (which would solve this issue) is a "flip rows/columns" button to swap the direction of feeling. You can currently sort columns to see the attitudes of a single AI toward all other civs, but that's rarely useful. More likely I want to sort how the AIs feel about a single player.

I also want to be able to assign my own attitudes to players so that it will group my friends and foes separately.

Would it be possible to expand the width of the window a bit, or is that not doable without changing DLLs or SDKs or other acronyms?

So close! This window is in the EXE (not moddable at all). Same with the trade negotation window.

*snort* Monty? Tech something everyone else hadn't scored a century ago?

True, what was I thinking? Monty is my standard AI-to-bash I suppose.

 

[r_rolo1]

May I suggest a somewhat big pile of work? Ok, not so much .....

Have you ever considered making a tab in the Military advisor ( or simply boosting the default one somehow ) in a way that we can pick individual units, Civ III style, instead of simply classes, like it is today ? In civ IV every unit can be unique due to the promos and sometimes it would be nice to have a tool to find quickly that %&#&#%$%&/#/ Woodie warrior for making him a nice super doctor.... But that it is not possible in Civ IV current military screen, that only shows types of units

 

[Eunomiac]

An idea for the BAT Mod:

In SimCity Societies, you construct a city by plopping down individual buildings. Behind the scenes, each of these buildings has a "profile metric" that associates the building with a certain flavor of society. These metrics are summed across all of the buildings in your city to arrive at a total score for each society profile.
For example, a "Ministry of Propaganda" might have these profile metrics: "Authoriarian +50, Cyberpunk +25, Capitalist -5, Contemplative -15, Fun Land -30."

Each profile has associated with it a host of audio and graphical effects, with thresholds determined by separate XML files. These ambient effects cover everything from cars on the road, to added building features, to weather.
For example, neon lights appear on building faces when your total Cyberpunk metric is >500, while the light posts change into candy canes at Fun Land 1000+.

The beauty of the SimCity Societies system is its clever structure. Each type of effect gets its own XML file, which lists when and how the effect appears based on these total metrics. This means that new effects can be added simply by dropping in a new XML file, and new society profiles can be added by cherry-picking the types of effects you want for it and adding those details to the relevant effects XML file.
For example, a "fog.xml" file defines the fog effect: "light brown smog" with Industrial >500, "heavy brown smog" with Industrial 1000+, "light grey smoke" with Cyberpunk >500, "white mist" with Nightmare 1000+, etc. A "sun.xml" file defines things like sunrise, sunset, intensity and color, giving permanent darkness at Nightmare 1000+ and permanent sunshine at Fun Land 1000+.

This means that the effects can be created independently from the triggering profiles, and vice-versa: you don't need to know how to design particle effects to create a society profile using fog, you simply need to tell fog.xml what to do and when to do it.

Perhaps we could consider adding this sort of thing through BAT, to the extent that the modability of the graphics engine allows? Initially, we'd only need the enabling structure — once the system is implemented, then people can contribute however they can. A graphical effect here, a triggering condition there, and a constantly changing visual experience based on the direction you take your Civ. Imagine search lights appearing in your cities/towns when you implement the Police State civic, a smoggy haze over cities with coal power, colorful parades with a Culture slider above 50%, or lights appearing in windows when you research Electricity.

 

[ruff_hi]

May I suggest a somewhat big pile of work? Ok, not so much .....

Have you ever considered making a tab in the Military advisor ( or simply boosting the default one somehow ) in a way that we can pick individual units, Civ III style, instead of simply classes, like it is today ? In civ IV every unit can be unique due to the promos and sometimes it would be nice to have a tool to find quickly that %&#&#%$%&/#/ Woodie warrior for making him a nice super doctor.... But that it is not possible in Civ IV current military screen, that only shows types of units

Sure - I'll just fire up a little program that I wrote to enable me to gain access to your civ4 files ... right - it is up and running. 1 sec while I put in this mod. Done! Now - fire up your civ4 copy, go to the MA (F5) - I put a little bit of text just about the list of unit types - it says "show individual units" (or something like that). Click on that and you will get a complete list of individual units.

Spoiler :

its actually already in the game

 

[r_rolo1]

Oh, that you, mr ruff too bad I have my civ computer shutted down

Spoiler more serious anwser :

I know that it is in game... but the interface is definitely not intuitive. Civ III one, with the graphical rows of sepearted units, was....

 

[r_rolo1]

* stupid lag *

 

[r_rolo1]

* deleted *

 

[ruff_hi]

Oh, that you, mr ruff too bad I have my civ computer shutted down

You best check your game - as I don't think having your PC off stopped me from updating it .

 

[Cammagno]

its actually already in the game

Well... no.
It's possible to see the individual units, but not to "pick up" them.
Selecting a single unit selects all the unit of the same class.
But I remember EF saying something about not possible to separate them without DLL or something like this...

 

[ruff_hi]

Well... no.
It's possible to see the individual units, but not to "pick up" them.
Selecting a single unit selects all the unit of the same class.
But I remember EF saying something about not possible to separate them without DLL or something like this...

Really? I seem to remember being able to highlight individual units - will test this when I get a chance.

 

[Cammagno]

The numbers themselves are incidental (I'll be adding an option to remove them eventually) given that there are hidden modifiers that affect the displayed attitude.

Good! I hate those numbers, they are confusing!

Hmm, I suppose that could work. I've been tempted to redo this screen for a long time to fix outstanding issues (doesn't draw correctly when you aren't player 0) and add more features and a new layout.
One such feature (which would solve this issue) is a "flip rows/columns" button to swap the direction of feeling. You can currently sort columns to see the attitudes of a single AI toward all other civs, but that's rarely useful. More likely I want to sort how the AIs feel about a single player.
I also want to be able to assign my own attitudes to players so that it will group my friends and foes separately.

Good idea

So close! This window is in the EXE (not moddable at all). Same with the trade negotation window.

Also no possibility of changing the text size or of overlapping the full window with a bigger custom one?

 

[Cammagno]

Really? I seem to remember being able to highlight individual units - will test this when I get a chance.

If you are able please tell me how, I'm looking for this possibility with anxiety... for this and for EF's advanced ordering and filtering options
(I know that he likes me remembering him this "promise" )

 

[ripple01]

I have a small request;

On the scoreboard, my (the player) name is listed (on the default setting, anyway) as

PlayerName/Civilization

or

JasonChristina/Rome, for an example.

I'd like the name to reflect the leader I am playing so that if I'm playing Augustus, it says

Augustus/Rome

just like all of the other AI players. The brackets around my name are enough to identify it as me to me.

Does this make sense?

Cheers,
ripple01