MadDjinns Tech tree (mod) 2.21

[MadDjinn]

Hey everyone...

I put together a slightly different tech tree, to resolve issues around:

• 1.5-2 era long jumps in the tech tree
  • especially all of the 1 tech requirement lines
• Super long beeline to the Information era
  • The top of the tech contains all research/production/commerce/wonders/etc so why bother with the military techs?
  • the AI can't upgrade units in the mid game if they don't have the techs for the units
• Era dependent game systems are shoved into new eras too fast
  • Great People selection (uses average era, so reduces total GPs in game)
  • Warmonger hate/declare war issues (era scaled)
  • Hex purchasing costs (a little less so)
  • District Project costs
  • etc

The whole tech tree has changed as of Version 2. Despite some minor changes of the tech tree in the Australian Summer Patch, the need for a modified tech tree remains.

Version 1.0 - initial pass
Version 1.01 - fixed for patch 1
Version 2.0 - Now on Steam! Also has Ancient era -> Renaissance Era changes.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=879239868

Be sure to activate it in the game under Additional Content.

 

[MadDjinn]

erm, ok.. for some reason I can't attach here.

will upload somewhere and edit in.

 

[Firebug]

You made a mod that quickly? jesus.

 

[UncivilizedGuy]

You made a mod that quickly? jesus.

Wow! You beat me to it

 

[JFD]

tbf MadDjinn has had the game for a while now

 

[UncivilizedGuy]

tbf MadDjinn has had the game for a while now

That sneaky devil

 

[nokmirt]

I want this mod ASAP. Thanks for the work you put in MadDjinn.

 

[MadDjinn]

I want this mod ASAP. Thanks for the work you put in MadDjinn.

let me know how it plays out. It's still pretty easy to adjust.

 

[MadDjinn]

added a link to Beyond the Monument where I show the full tech tree changes.

 

[Feyd Rautha]

Hmm... I don't like that Military Tactics is still a dead end tech. Honestly, you could pitch Stirrups altogether and make IT tactics. That would feed Military Engineering which was necessary historically because of tactic shifts.

Alternatively, you still ditch Stirrups and add the Knight to Castles (since a place to house and feed the horses is what made knights a viable unit) and then connect Military Tactics to Education since both swords and plowshares were the goals of early refined education.

Finally, Square Rigging and Astronomy need to be along the path and not dead ends. Astronomy and Cartography are basically the same thing so there's one bird, but Square rigging was totally a "throw in" tech to fill a gap in the tree. My biggest concern, however is that the already bad Naval AI will just get worse because they'll never have use of frigates and won't be able to upgrade their quadriremes due to the missed step before battleships. I would say make Metal Casting feed into Square Rigging and have Square Rigging feed both Ballistics AND Military Science... this will require EVERYONE to get Square Rigging and will slow down the tree in one of the best areas.

Just my thoughts... will try it out when I'm done achievement hunting.

 

[Aramis]

Saw AI Musketmen for the first time with this mod, so it seems to be somewhat effective. No knights or pikemen though. Mod might be making them more scarce because of the dead-end techs.

 

[Dux1]

If this mod is necessary to get the AI to build mid-game units like Musketmen, can we therefore surmise that the AI always prioritizes a certain path down the tech tree and never deviates from this plan? It seems like militaristic civs in particular should really prioritize military technology, not acquire it only because it happened to be a tech on the pre-determined tech path the AI always takes. I honestly don't understand how the AI not upgrading units wasn't noticed during internal playtesting.

 

[Lord Tirian]

Interesting, got to keep an eye on it. I'm still trying to fully wrap my had around vanilla before I try out mods, but it seems to address the main concerns I have at this point (the era long jumps through techs).

 

[Konfuchie]

This is an awesome simple fix for some of AI's behavior. How actual game dev's can't figure this was one of the problems is beyond me.

 

[Goldflash]

So where exactly in that two hour video can we see the tech tree?

 

[Littlebob86]

Like 1:48:00

 

[MadDjinn]

sigh, I think with the move to the subforum, I wasn't getting notifications about posts here.

Hmm... I don't like that Military Tactics is still a dead end tech. Honestly, you could pitch Stirrups altogether and make IT tactics. That would feed Military Engineering which was necessary historically because of tactic shifts.

Alternatively, you still ditch Stirrups and add the Knight to Castles (since a place to house and feed the horses is what made knights a viable unit) and then connect Military Tactics to Education since both swords and plowshares were the goals of early refined education.

Finally, Square Rigging and Astronomy need to be along the path and not dead ends. Astronomy and Cartography are basically the same thing so there's one bird, but Square rigging was totally a "throw in" tech to fill a gap in the tree. My biggest concern, however is that the already bad Naval AI will just get worse because they'll never have use of frigates and won't be able to upgrade their quadriremes due to the missed step before battleships. I would say make Metal Casting feed into Square Rigging and have Square Rigging feed both Ballistics AND Military Science... this will require EVERYONE to get Square Rigging and will slow down the tree in one of the best areas.

Just my thoughts... will try it out when I'm done achievement hunting.

yeah, I think there can be more work done on some of the techs that basically only have one item in it. Via either removing them and shifting as you suggested, or finding another way.

I'm actually ok with dead end techs, they work well in the civic tree for some mechanics that are important sometimes (like religion and the military section up to exploration). The only problem is finding 'multi-tech groups to eventually deadend' like religion in the civic tree.

wrt Square Rigging, I'll have to check a naval map to see if the AI isn't going there. I've seen renaissance ships (especially barbs) but it could be moved to somewhere better.

Saw AI Musketmen for the first time with this mod, so it seems to be somewhat effective. No knights or pikemen though. Mod might be making them more scarce because of the dead-end techs.

This might be AI preference based. You don't always need knights (and sometimes lack the iron anyways), but Arabia definitely goes for it. Same for Military Tactics; Japan and Norway should want it, but everyone else should only worry about it as needed. I know I rarely go pikes. With the above suggestion from Feyd, we could look at just removing the two techs and incorporating them into other ones. I just don't want the civV version where pikes are on a mainline before knights are available (or knights are harder to get; which they would be at castles due to the eureka there).

If this mod is necessary to get the AI to build mid-game units like Musketmen, can we therefore surmise that the AI always prioritizes a certain path down the tech tree and never deviates from this plan? It seems like militaristic civs in particular should really prioritize military technology, not acquire it only because it happened to be a tech on the pre-determined tech path the AI always takes. I honestly don't understand how the AI not upgrading units wasn't noticed during internal playtesting.

absolutely yes the AI runs down the same tech paths. It has some 'preferences' (UU/UB/etc locations), but normally will skip the military techs from the renaissance and industrial. You can even see that in the AI battle royale video that the dev did. first unit beyond medieval was an AT gun (chemistry). Though I have seen AIs beeline infantry; which still don't need gunpowder.

 

[MadDjinn]

So where exactly in that two hour video can we see the tech tree?

Like 1:48:00

about there yes. If you watch the video from the OP, it auto jumps to the right spot.

 

[Hakuoh]

Its funny that Firaxis dindt test this out with the Techtree... I mean they should have saw this comming in all there testgames that the Ais skipp so many techs and rush through the tree...
They eighter dindt have the time to change anything or it was just lazyness. :|
I love Civ 6 and have so many hours in it allrdy but it kinda feels like a rushed Product or unfinished product to me.
Lets hope we get a real Patch for stuff like this in the near future.
Thx for the Mod Mad.

 

[sresk]

To follow up on the ai building units and dead end techs... in another thread it was discovered that if you make archery a prerequisite and not a deadend suddenly the ai will upgrade it's slingers... you may want to consider making all military techs prerequisites to something.

Additionally is any work being done to add more techs or break them up to fill out the tree? It seems silly how quickly you can rush through the eras. I'm constantly finding its possible to get factories before 1 ad.