Most useless units?
- Thread starter M3dge
- Start date
ConfusedCounsel
Warlord
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2016
- Messages
- 293
The thing with them is, is that their regular counterpart is already so good, OP even, that the upgrade is kinda 'wasted' or 'win more'. Any civ can win with cuirassiers warfare, being a bit better at is nice, but not great. Which is why they are relatively low on my best uu list.
WC's
Praets
Quecha's
Immortals
Fast workers
Are all definitely better to me, and honestly, vultures, cataphracts and maybe a couple more might also be one there.
Lexicus
Deity
Cataphracts are my secret love, though I've not played the Byzantines in some time.
Conquistadors (or Conks as our buddy here likes to call them) are not just a bit better, they are beastly better, comfortably wiping out pikes plus parking in forests and being excellent castle defenders (doesn't ignore defence bonuses) is huge. Huge to an already very good warfaring unit, as you noted.
About Fast workers, they must be great in normal or fast, with it´s obvious exponentially growing over time advantage. Nevertheless, this fades out as the speed becomes slower; climbing a hill and begining the mine, within the same turn, always spares you just one turn, regardless of speed, but proportionaly is not the same gain when the mine takes 3-4 turns to complete, than when it takes 12.
It´s still a decent UU in marathon though!
Something I forgot... Explorers.. Useless because of some "crap bug" - when playing with huts on (and barbs too), it should be designed to jump on caravels and go for huts (well.. gold, silver etc. from histrory) but there is this barbarian guy defending hut... and Explorer has 0 chance to use what it was designed for.. There should be "can attack barbs" option or something to make sense of this unit. Specially if play some Terra kind of map etc. Otherwise its just upgraded scout to use for supermedic I guess..
Thanks to lurking on here and learning loads I am making progress - now winning consistently at Monarch
One thing I have noticed is that I almost - or in some cases totally - ignore certain units, as relatively useless versus other options. Am I missing something with the following (playing BTS, Monarch, Continents, No Barbs, favoring Liz, Darius, Huayana or Augustus):-
Tiremes (just why - noting I am playing without barbs?)
Crossbows (Longbows usually available same time)
Muskets (would never go to war with them, rifles round the corner)
Airships (AI fixates on these but without collatoral capabilities just so weak)
Guided Missile (ditto!)
Ship of the Line (would rather build loads of frigates)
Ironclads (slow sitting ducks)
Privateers (they just seem to get slaughtered)
Bombers (if the AI has fighters. Until then they are IMO overpowered. In reality they would be escorted by fighters, without such cover they just seem to get wiped out).
Tactical nukes (other than cost why not just build ICBMs?)
Cheers!
Depends on a lot of factors but for me generally w/settings I play here's what I find useless:
boats before combustion (except workboat)
Crossbowmen
explorers
paratroopers --they are kinda fun, but useless.
I also never build grenadiers but I can't argue they have their uses. Same with guided missiles.. just need too many for them to be worth while and that gets tedious. If you haven't figured it out yet, I normally win by space race or riflemen vs longbowmen mismatches than by using huge SoDs
Darth Tribble
Friendly Neighborhood Conqueror
Explorers: Most of the map is already explored by the time I get them. I only see them being useful on Terra maps. Even then, I never really used them.
Dumanios
MLG
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2008
- Messages
- 4,887
1: Triremes. Not quite useless, but the tech requirements for them are a pain in the ass and I tend to go for other stuff first.
2: Crossbowmen. I tend to rarely use them, though I'm usually not on the offensive during the Medieval ages.
3: Ironclads. They're slow and can't leave the coast. Nothing upgrades to them and the hammers are better spent elsewhere.
4: Anti-Tank Infantry. More often than not, I already have Oil, so the resources are better spent on tanks. A couple more strength points would save him.
5: Machine Guns. Being Siege units ends up making them rarely built in my games. I'm not opposed to upgrading to them, but Grenadiers aren't exactly good defenders either.
6: I've never built a Paratrooper.
7: Guided Missiles. Multi-Production makes them instantly x10 more useful, but by default, the shields tend to be better spent elsewhere.
2: Crossbowmen. I tend to rarely use them, though I'm usually not on the offensive during the Medieval ages.
3: Ironclads. They're slow and can't leave the coast. Nothing upgrades to them and the hammers are better spent elsewhere.
4: Anti-Tank Infantry. More often than not, I already have Oil, so the resources are better spent on tanks. A couple more strength points would save him.
5: Machine Guns. Being Siege units ends up making them rarely built in my games. I'm not opposed to upgrading to them, but Grenadiers aren't exactly good defenders either.
6: I've never built a Paratrooper.
7: Guided Missiles. Multi-Production makes them instantly x10 more useful, but by default, the shields tend to be better spent elsewhere.
lindsay40k
Emperor
AT guns are fine stack defenders if you've got capability to produce 4 promo units. I've got four with March walking with my SoD, no sudden Industrialism turnabout will drive me back.
Paratroopers make nice stack and city defenders. Higher base str than Infantry and as you take cities deeper and deeper into enemy territory they can redeploy as a hard front line with less formidable Infantry holding the second line.
Also, try putting one with Woodsman III & Medic in a Transport with three with March. Add this to your naval invasion force. If you keep the enemy's SoD busy, you can stroll along taking out Oil and Aluminium. If you can't, they'll take out many units when they take the inevitable human attack wave and give you more time to stage-manage a Stalingrad.
Machine Guns are brilliant *if* you choose their Grenadier ancestors well. A vassal can easily sort out MS in time for a squadron of Grens to join your SoD and get some Guerilla IIs, CGIIIs, Marches by killing Rifles. Drill IV is ok but part of its utility is reducing collateral damage, which is largely lost on a Siege unit - Strength modifiers give more bang IMO.
Paratroopers make nice stack and city defenders. Higher base str than Infantry and as you take cities deeper and deeper into enemy territory they can redeploy as a hard front line with less formidable Infantry holding the second line.
Also, try putting one with Woodsman III & Medic in a Transport with three with March. Add this to your naval invasion force. If you keep the enemy's SoD busy, you can stroll along taking out Oil and Aluminium. If you can't, they'll take out many units when they take the inevitable human attack wave and give you more time to stage-manage a Stalingrad.
Machine Guns are brilliant *if* you choose their Grenadier ancestors well. A vassal can easily sort out MS in time for a squadron of Grens to join your SoD and get some Guerilla IIs, CGIIIs, Marches by killing Rifles. Drill IV is ok but part of its utility is reducing collateral damage, which is largely lost on a Siege unit - Strength modifiers give more bang IMO.
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georgjorge
Deity Wannabe
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2009
- Messages
- 921
It HAS to be non-nuclear missiles.
First time I used them, I stared at the screen for a long time afterwards. I had thought I would be able to take out at least single units from a distance, and couldn't believe the missile had gone but all the enemy units were still there.
First time I used them, I stared at the screen for a long time afterwards. I had thought I would be able to take out at least single units from a distance, and couldn't believe the missile had gone but all the enemy units were still there.
Fippy
Mycro Junkie
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2013
- Messages
- 14,036
Explorers for me too, i had situations where i wanted a cheap scout but now need 40h instead for an explorer 
So not useless, but actually a downgrade (i did not have those hammers). Even worse.
Guided missles are "really" useless, but at least they do not obsolete an earlier and cheaper unit.
So not useless, but actually a downgrade (i did not have those hammers). Even worse.
Guided missles are "really" useless, but at least they do not obsolete an earlier and cheaper unit.
Triremes: The turn before Optics are in, wip one on each side of your empire and cheap upgrade to caravels next. Then race to find new tech trade partners and also get the circumnavigate bonus.
Airships: Build a handful and set on autoexplore for complete control of AI troop and naval movements. Cheap upgrade to fighters.
Bombers are very handy. Just remember to send fighters first so enemy airdefence and interceptors have used their turn.
Airships: Build a handful and set on autoexplore for complete control of AI troop and naval movements. Cheap upgrade to fighters.
Bombers are very handy. Just remember to send fighters first so enemy airdefence and interceptors have used their turn.
lindsay40k
Emperor
Don't forget to add a Missionary to each one if it looks like you might find a continent of pagans
I don't know... They are dirt cheap by the time they become available, provided you have a good production city to build them in. And if you unload about 20 to 25 of them on an incoming enemy stack...
Guided Missiles are for non-Nuclear real fun war games 
Not powerful at all (well, even with small striking power it would great if they would do even tiny damage to other units on same tile) but can allow some interesting amphibious attacks (usually 7-8 submarines = 21-24 GMissiles) to take out AI naval stack inside city (that usually in my games have like 30+ Destroyers that makes Fighters missions less powerfull for 1st strike wave). Get that city, unload some defenders there (usually 1+ with airflift), unload real attack stack next to 2nd city and get capitulation very soon (power ratio drop is huge when losing tens of ships )... Reload Submarines (easy to do worldwide with Guided Missiles, sometimes with Kremlin I just "select all core production cities" << easy to do at F1 screen and with Ctrl+Click at cities I want>> and just buy up next turn) and go for next AI Not best finish date if compare to Nukes games but.... I have won multiple Deity no-tech trading games just like that - peace until 1000 AD+ ("Empire setup" - more early cities like usual with longer infrastucture pay-back time - opens up around this time) and than.... step by step neverending war... 
but that is very very specific game style that won't like to many .
Not powerful at all (well, even with small striking power it would great if they would do even tiny damage to other units on same tile) but can allow some interesting amphibious attacks (usually 7-8 submarines = 21-24 GMissiles) to take out AI naval stack inside city (that usually in my games have like 30+ Destroyers that makes Fighters missions less powerfull for 1st strike wave). Get that city, unload some defenders there (usually 1+ with airflift), unload real attack stack next to 2nd city and get capitulation very soon (power ratio drop is huge when losing tens of ships )... Reload Submarines (easy to do worldwide with Guided Missiles, sometimes with Kremlin I just "select all core production cities" << easy to do at F1 screen and with Ctrl+Click at cities I want>> and just buy up next turn) and go for next AI Not best finish date if compare to Nukes games but.... I have won multiple Deity no-tech trading games just like that - peace until 1000 AD+ ("Empire setup" - more early cities like usual with longer infrastucture pay-back time - opens up around this time) and than.... step by step neverending war... but that is very very specific game style that won't like to many .
Lexicus
Deity
Guided Missiles are things I use to clean up after air/artillery has already worked out on the enemy stack. They are definitely useless though, the hammers will always be better spent elsewhere.
lindsay40k
Emperor
They can be hammer efficient if a city has one really good veteran amongst its guard and solid AA cover. Cheaper to burn one kicking CGIII's teeth in than to play Withdraw Roulette. Not that I've ever actually bothered when I've always got easy access to CRIII Artillery at this point…
Lexicus
Deity
Hmm, makes sense. I have actually used them for that before (softening the odds on that one enemy unit with the 6 promotions).
lindsay40k
Emperor
Yeah, I'm more likely to use them if I have a solid Ironworks city with no settled GGs. Rapidly produced burner units are more attractive if the opportunity cost doesn't include a bunch of multiple promo units. This isn't a common situation as my IW city is usually a captured capital that came with three GGs, two settled hammer GPs, a wiggly river that the AI cleared of Villages to give their Bureaucap a load of crappy Workshops, and Pyramids
