SGOTM 16 - U'nu'sual S'us'pec'ts

Trystero said:
Edit2 - I've also updated our decathlon objectives status post: 2 down/8 to go.
Click to expand...

Woot. :cool:

Sorry to be pedantic, but can you use the a different colour, I'm just not seeing that blue very well.

Also, can you use the strikethrough for each objective completed, just for added drama. Strikethrough is the 'S' button in between 'Wrap' and 'Spoiler'
 
neilmeister said:
Woot. :cool:

Sorry to be pedantic, but can you use the a different colour, I'm just not seeing that blue very well.

Also, can you use the strikethrough for each objective completed, just for added drama. Strikethrough is the 'S' button in between 'Wrap' and 'Spoiler'
Click to expand...

OK - will do. How about Dark Green? I think that is better than Red.
 
OK, I can handle dark green
 
I have played 3 more turns, until Currency was in. It was a very close run thing, with 1 turn to go, we didn't have enough money in the bank to continue at 100%, when I dropped it to 80%, Currency was no longer 1 turn. So, I had to go round the smaller cities and assign a few scientists. We have 0 overflow beakers into Compass.

No cities are settled yet

I whipped the temple in Production to get rid of the unhappy face, and the overflow did a library in 1 turn, so I took it. That is the only deviation I made.
Anyway, the good news:

Ramesses just founded Christianity :)
Ramesses & Brennus are now at war.
We can definitely beg 70 gold from Brennus. (we have about 140 beg points, if our borders touch, this is tripled to 420). Should we wait or beg?
We can get 55 gold from Ramesses for Mediation.
Confused has spread to East Fish.

For selling Meditation, we will take a short term diplo hit with Brennus, but it is free money, but we are already +7 with him and growing rapidly. We are 100% safe from Brennus, as the combined religion & civic bonus will add +12, and he cannot plot at pleased or friendly.


Does anyone wish me to upload the save?
I would still like to complete the Great Library before my turn is over, I think I have played 7 or 8 turns so far.

Here is the BUFFY log (finally fixed it)
Spoiler :
Logging by BUFFY 3.19.003 (BtS 3.19)
------------------------------------------------
Turn 114/500 (25 BC) [25-Oct-2012 15:52:36]
Production begins: Buddhist Temple (4 turns)
100% Research: 159 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -81 per turn, 230 in the bank

After End Turn:
Barb City grows to size 4
Barb City finishes: Library

Other Player Actions:
Christianity founded in a distant land

Turn 115/500 (0 AD) [25-Oct-2012 15:53:09]
Barb City begins: Worker (5 turns)
100% Research: 163 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -79 per turn, 149 in the bank

After End Turn:
The whip was applied in Production
GP Farm grows to size 6
Production finishes: Buddhist Temple
Clams finishes: Worker
Confucianism has spread: East Fish

Turn 116/500 (25 AD) [25-Oct-2012 15:54:24]
Production begins: Library (5 turns)
Clams begins: Forge (6 turns)
A Mine was built near Barb City
80% Research: 142 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
20% Gold: -61 per turn, 70 in the bank

After End Turn:
Tech research finished: Currency
GP Farm's borders expand
Production grows to size 7
Production finishes: Library
A Hamlet was built near Commerce
A Village was built near Commerce
East Fish grows to size 4
Zhou's borders expand

Other Player Actions:
Brennus (Celtia) declares war on Ramesses II (Egypt)
Attitude Change: Ramesses II (Egypt) towards Brennus (Celtia), from 'Annoyed' to 'Furious'
Attitude Change: Brennus (Celtia) towards Ramesses II (Egypt), from 'Annoyed' to 'Furious'

Turn 117/500 (50 AD) [25-Oct-2012 15:56:24]
Research begun: Compass (4 Turns)
Production begins: Trireme (4 turns)
A Mine was built near Clams
A Mine was built near Commerce
Paris begins: Buddhist Temple (14 turns)
Paris begins: Worker (8 turns)
Paris begins: Buddhist Temple (14 turns)
 
Begging/trading for gold is OK with me.

Thank you Ramesses! (Hopefully he builds some shrines).

I don't think you need to upload again. Carry on.
 
Shared borders are 7 turns away. When Clams/Iron/Sugar expands (it will be built in 2 turns).

Not sure what we could get though, if he researches something, we can just trade him a tech for it anyway. Tempted just to beg now.

edit: OK, playing on....
 
Begging a happiness resource would probably be more beneficial than a tech at this point, but I think funding our research at 100% for a few more turns while TGL comes online is the more pressing need. I would beg for cash now.

Edit: I was just looking at the SGOTM progress page. We seem to be doing pretty well in Power compared to the other teams. Kakumeika might be gearing up for an earlier war. Fifth Element last uploaded a save at turn 20.
 
OK, save uploaded, we got everything we wanted. TGL, Compass, 2 more cities, the game is looking impressive.

Brennus has taken 1 Egyptian city so far, and doesn't look like stopping!!!!

I have to go home right now to take over the daycare from my dad, and I will post a proper report from there.

Save is linked here

Session Log
Spoiler :
Turn 114, 25 BC: You have discovered Iron Working!
Turn 114, 25 BC: Christianity has been founded in Memphis!

Turn 115, 1 AD: Confucianism has spread in East Fish.

Turn 116, 25 AD: You have discovered Currency!
Turn 116, 25 AD: The borders of GP Farm have expanded!
Turn 116, 25 AD: The borders of Zhou have expanded!
Turn 116, 25 AD: Brennus has declared war on Ramesses II!
Turn 116, 25 AD: The Hanging Gardens has been built in a far away land!

Turn 117, 50 AD: Buddhism has spread in Memphis.
Turn 117, 50 AD: Ramesses II adopts Slavery!
Turn 117, 50 AD: Joseph Marie Jacquard (Great Engineer) has been born in a far away land!

Turn 119, 100 AD: Orleans has been founded.
Turn 119, 100 AD: Lyons has been founded.

Turn 120, 125 AD: Commerce will become unhealthy on the next turn.
Turn 120, 125 AD: Zhou has grown to size 2.
Turn 120, 125 AD: Clearing a Forest has created 16 ℤ for GP Farm.
Turn 120, 125 AD: Commerce will grow to size 7 on the next turn.
Turn 120, 125 AD: Clams will grow to size 5 on the next turn.
Turn 120, 125 AD: East Fish will grow to size 3 on the next turn.
Turn 120, 125 AD: Barb City will grow to size 5 on the next turn.

Turn 121, 150 AD: GP Farm has become happy.
Turn 121, 150 AD: Production can hurry Settler for 2⇴ with 16ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 14 turns.
Turn 121, 150 AD: Commerce has grown to size 7.
Turn 121, 150 AD: Clams has grown to size 5.
Turn 121, 150 AD: East Fish has grown to size 3.
Turn 121, 150 AD: Barb City has grown to size 5.
Turn 121, 150 AD: Barb City can hurry Forge for 2⇴ with 12ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 121, 150 AD: You have discovered Compass!
Turn 121, 150 AD: Louis XIV has completed The Great Library!
Turn 121, 150 AD: You have constructed The Great Library in GP Farm. Work has now begun on a Warrior.

Turn 122, 175 AD: Clams will grow to size 6 on the next turn.
Turn 122, 175 AD: East Fish will grow to size 4 on the next turn.
Turn 122, 175 AD: Barb City will grow to size 6 on the next turn.

BUFFY Log
Spoiler :
Logging by BUFFY 3.19.003 (BtS 3.19)
------------------------------------------------
Turn 114/500 (25 BC) [25-Oct-2012 15:52:36]
Production begins: Buddhist Temple (4 turns)
100% Research: 159 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -81 per turn, 230 in the bank

After End Turn:
Barb City grows to size 4
Barb City finishes: Library

Other Player Actions:
Christianity founded in a distant land

Turn 115/500 (0 AD) [25-Oct-2012 15:53:09]
Barb City begins: Worker (5 turns)
100% Research: 163 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -79 per turn, 149 in the bank

After End Turn:
The whip was applied in Production
GP Farm grows to size 6
Production finishes: Buddhist Temple
Clams finishes: Worker
Confucianism has spread: East Fish

Turn 116/500 (25 AD) [25-Oct-2012 15:54:24]
Production begins: Library (5 turns)
Clams begins: Forge (6 turns)
A Mine was built near Barb City
80% Research: 142 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
20% Gold: -61 per turn, 70 in the bank

After End Turn:
Tech research finished: Currency
GP Farm's borders expand
Production grows to size 7
Production finishes: Library
A Hamlet was built near Commerce
A Village was built near Commerce
East Fish grows to size 4
Zhou's borders expand

Other Player Actions:
Brennus (Celtia) declares war on Ramesses II (Egypt)
Attitude Change: Ramesses II (Egypt) towards Brennus (Celtia), from 'Annoyed' to 'Furious'
Attitude Change: Brennus (Celtia) towards Ramesses II (Egypt), from 'Annoyed' to 'Furious'

Turn 117/500 (50 AD) [25-Oct-2012 15:56:24]
Research begun: Compass (4 Turns)
Production begins: Trireme (4 turns)
A Mine was built near Clams
A Mine was built near Commerce
Paris begins: Buddhist Temple (14 turns)
Paris begins: Worker (8 turns)
Paris begins: Buddhist Temple (14 turns)
Tech traded to Ramesses II (Egypt): Meditation
0% Research: 10 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
100% Gold: 49 per turn, 134 in the bank

After End Turn:
The whip was applied in Commerce
The whip was applied in East Fish
Paris grows to size 7
Commerce grows to size 6
Commerce finishes: Forge
East Fish finishes: Granary

Other Player Actions:
Civics Change: Ramesses II(Egypt) from 'Caste System' to 'Slavery'

Turn 118/500 (75 AD) [25-Oct-2012 16:57:00]
Commerce begins: Market (22 turns)
East Fish begins: Library (45 turns)
East Fish begins: Forge (60 turns)
A Fishing Boats was built near Zhou
A Pasture was built near Zhou
0% Research: 10 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
100% Gold: 53 per turn, 183 in the bank

After End Turn:
GP Farm grows to size 7
Production grows to size 8
A Hamlet was built near East Fish

Turn 119/500 (100 AD) [25-Oct-2012 17:02:00]
Orleans founded
Orleans begins: Granary (60 turns)
Lyons founded
Lyons begins: Granary (30 turns)
100% Research: 217 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -105 per turn, 236 in the bank

After End Turn:
Production finishes: Trireme
Barb City finishes: Worker
Zhou grows to size 2

Turn 120/500 (125 AD) [25-Oct-2012 17:05:51]
Production begins: Settler (5 turns)
Barb City begins: Forge (60 turns)
A Pasture was built near Clams
A Fishing Boats was built near Lyons
100% Research: 221 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -107 per turn, 131 in the bank

After End Turn:
Whip anger has decreased in Commerce
Whip anger has decreased in Barb City
Commerce grows to size 7
A Hamlet was built near Commerce
Clams grows to size 5
East Fish grows to size 3
Barb City grows to size 5

Turn 121/500 (150 AD) [25-Oct-2012 17:10:54]
A Pasture was built near Zhou
A Cottage was built near Clams
Research begun: Compass (1 Turns)
40% Research: 98 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
60% Gold: -12 per turn, 24 in the bank

After End Turn:
Whip anger has decreased in GP Farm
Tech research finished: Compass
GP Farm finishes: The Great Library

Turn 122/500 (175 AD) [25-Oct-2012 17:14:08]
Research begun: Mathematics (3 Turns)
GP Farm begins: Forge (5 turns)
A Mine was built near Lyons
 
Great job neil! :goodjob:

It looks like soon we will have trade routes re-established with the (formerly) Egyptian cities. And we haven't wasted any EP on :egypt:, so that works out well too.
 
Great Job.
Looking good.

I don't think there was any discussion about the increased colony cost of going from 2 to 3 cities on the island. (I think it is the square of the number of cities) Anyway Orleans is a better spot for now than the other island places. And I agreed with the settling order.

Poor Ramesses. It is really good that Brennus went after him and not us - that would have been very bad.
 
Here are the images.

Techs:
Spoiler :





Beg:
Spoiler :





Trades:
Spoiler :



Renegotiated Pigs for Deer, as we have our own Pigs connected now, and Brennus has cash.





Brennus has Maths, but isn't willing to trade
Spoiler :




Vastly improving relations:
Spoiler :




Brennus' stack just keeps coming, in drips and drabs.
Spoiler :




Maps:
Spoiler :








Ramesses cops it sweet:
Spoiler :




I was also thinking that we might just want to help out Brennus, IF he does conquer Ramesses. If Brennus takes Memphis, maybe we should transport a few Chariots at conquer Elephantine, just so we meet our 'conquer' condition early.


edit:
Orleans doesn't have a WB yet, and we haven't started building one yet.
Trireme is in the central sea.
Galley has 2 Chariots loaded onto it. not true, they are in Barb City
Iron is mined, just needs to be roaded.
 
Deckhand said:
I don't think there was any discussion about the increased colony cost of going from 2 to 3 cities on the island. (I think it is the square of the number of cities) Anyway Orleans is a better spot for now than the other island places. And I agreed with the settling order.
Click to expand...

3 is my normal maximum, squaring the number make sense.

Poor Ramesses. It is really good that Brennus went after him and not us - that would have been very bad.
Click to expand...

Oh I know, it wouldn't be curtains if a team got DoWed like Ramesses was, but it would be pretty close.

We probably had a lucky escape.
 
neilmeister said:
Based purely on this post, I'm going to go for the bearded one holding the towel.
Click to expand...

You're wrong.

Spoiler :
It's not a towel, it's a Munster top. If you recognised the differences in the club jerseys (different sponsor, slightly different trimming) you'd've realised I was a sub, and the Munster jersey is to differentiate me so I'd not be counted as an extra man on the field.:p
 
Brian Shanahan said:
You're wrong.

Spoiler :
It's not a towel, it's a Munster top. If you recognised the differences in the club jerseys (different sponsor, slightly different trimming) you'd've realised I was a sub, and the Munster jersey is to differentiate me so I'd not be counted as an extra man on the field.:p
Click to expand...

Victory is mine :rockon:


Random thoughts on the save: (its weird commenting on my own save, especially my mistakes)

- Production should work an Engineer specialist instead of the desert hill. Getting a GE is going to be a long hard struggle.
- Orleans should change to a WB, and whip it the turn it gets to pop 2.
- That barb city should be visible in 2 turns.
- If it is Humbaba (and I am only offering very, very short odds), maybe we can culture kill him. If the city flips, Humbaba is dead.
- Make sure GP Farm does not pop the next GP before Paris. !!!!!
- We need at least 1 missionary for the barb island.
- try engineer max overflow in GP Farm from 2 pop whipping forge, into NE obviously.
- when Paris pops the next GP, reassign the scientists to working tiles.
- keep tax rate at 0% until we have enough cash to do both Maths & Calendar at 100%
- keep an eye on the Maths trade
- we want Harbors everywhere!!!! but lower priority than forges.
- if sustainable tech rate falls below 30%, stop settling!
- try to avoid further chopping until Maths is completed
- use the spies to steal treasury from Brennus


edit: we are looking in a very strong position right now. I honestly think we have a very good chance of getting a medal.
 
Great play Neil!!!! :D
Really liking how everything is going so far! I also agree that we have a strong medal chance! Let's aim for first!!! :)

GLH CLEARLY was the right move :D And getting MC via Oracle is really helping boost our city sizes!
 
I vote that we join in the war against Ramesses for a few reasons.

1) His cities are probably good. Maybe we can scout some more to verify, but I think the coastal ones couldn't hurt us too badly? We'll be able to whip in courthouses soonish. And it looks like Memphis has Christianity and we might be getting a GP soon. That would be a holy city in the bank.

2) This would satisfy the conquer requirement. Actually - CALLING KCD - the rule states, "At least one AI opponent has been eliminated (conquered) by your team." Does this mean that we have to take out Ramesses's final city? If so, we could conquer a civ by killing two archers. What happens if we capture a city and then on the next turn Brennus takes the last one? Does this mean Brennus has conquered Ramesses? This would be fairly easy to time I think, but I want to verify the rule before we do something silly.

3) We still need to unlock HE. And one more war might give us the chance to get a unit up to 10XP.

4) More diplo with Brennus. Have we thought about diplo + culture for our two victory conditions? In that case FT 1 would definitely be our upper bound, but I think we can get their pretty quickly? Some testing would be good. It might also be hard/impossible to get three holy cities without another war or two. But we could probably win diplo and culture. And then (REMEMBER WE HAVE ANOTHER TURN) declare war on a civ and pounce a holy city. We'll know more when we see the other continent(s).
 
Land=power.
Especially for a space raceish game. We could make use of that land far better than Brennus could!

Some more food for thought: if Brennus looks like he will kill Ramesses, perhaps we could bribe him to make peace so that we have two AIs that will do trades with us. As you can see, their tech paths are completely different that these two guys can take and leaving all that land for Brennus to take may make him difficult to deal with later on since he spams units. Plus, leaving Rams alive would mean he will probably build us some juicy wonders that Brennus won't.

Also, since you guys do know a bit more about the power of espionage, may I suggest that we steal maths? It works out cheaper than having to research it! It's a lot easier than having to wait for him to get to friendly :p
 
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