GOTM 41: First Spoiler

Just submited this game. I did not have time to read all the spoilers yet. I will post more details in a few days in a second spoiler, because it contains information about land other than a starting continent. But briefly: I finished it in AA (my favorit AAC).

PTW OPEN 20K

My first attempt at a 20k victory. I founded Pasargadae in 2800BC at the exact same position as davidcrazy and Grogs did. (5 SW of Persepolis). Persepolis was founded on the furs of course.

It all started out quite peaceful untill the Romans declared war on me somewhere around 1500BC. We made peace in 1200BC, with the Romans giving us two cities. Later on the Japanese declared war and an immortal-win in that war gave us a golden age in 50AD. We had entered the middle-ages just before that, so no info about that war for now.

Pasargadae
Pasargadae was building cultural city improvements or wonders all the time, while Persepolis provided the city with the necessary workers.
Here is a list of all cultural buildings in Pasargadae:
Temple 2190BC
The Colossus 1200BC
The Great Library 270BC
Library 190BC
Collosseum 10AD
This gives the city a total culture of 547 in 50AD, gaining 21 culture per turn.

1.29 Open going for 20K

The Beginning
I did not want to waste the fur bonus and thus my worker went east seeing 2 gold mountains (looks like a nice city site) and my settler went south learing nothing new. Persepolis was founded 3950BC building 2 warriors, granary, settler. When we were ready to build the settler, disease struck and we lost 4 pop.

Pasargadae (the 20K city) was founded 2270BC on the coast at rcp 4 and started building culture. I joined a couple of workers, but the early disease was quite a set-back. And after meeting the Romans 3150BC and the Japanese 2710BC, I decided to build quite some settlers to strengthen for the unavoidable wars. This further delayed Pasargadae growth.

Research
Research was full speed on pottery, and afterwards iron. Rome gave alphabet for masonry and pottery. Japan gave ceremonial burial and wheel for masonry and alphabet. I wanted to leave despotism asap and thus research continued with writing, philosopy, col, republic. The techs were either traded (for hbr, map making, mysticism) or extorted from us (pottery, philosophy, republic). 590BC we learn republic and after only 2 turns of anarchy the Republic of Persia is established 550BC.

Research continued with literature, (get math for it), monarchy, and currency entering the Middle Ages 190AD. Late, but we were in no particular hurry.

War Preperation and War
When we learned iron working, we saw the resource on a hill northeast of us. Our settler founded a city directly on top of it 1300BC. This may have been a mistake, because I could not disconnect the iron without also disconnecting the spices. To overcome this issue, I founded Tarsus northeast of Persepolis and built barracks. Connected to its own furs, it was able to build a warrior every 2 turns, every turn once the Golden Age started. These warriors then went towards Rome for upgrade to immortals and fighting.

290BC we were ready for war against the Romans. We did not know at that time that they were at war with the Japanese, because we had not yet espablished embassies. But we knew that Rome had the Pyramids and that we wanted them. The war for us started by 2 immortals dieing in their attack on warriors. But afterwards the Romans were no match. They only managed to build 4 legionaries, and these were weaklings and died attacking or being attacked, no Golden Age for Rome. The Japanese razed 2 Roman cities west of us, but were too late for the real fights. At the dawn of the Middle Ages (190AD) the Romans were reduced to 1 city in the very east of their former lands.

Overseas Contacts
Galley construction only started after we captured the coastal Pisae from the Romans. The first suicide galleys was lost and the second made contact the turn after we entered the Middle Ages. Thus there is nothing to report in this spoiler.

20k Pasargadae
In my last 20K attempt (gotm39) I missed the award by 3 turns after not managing to build any AA Wonder. This time it was better, but compared to some other spoiler reports I still have to struggle in overtaking the competition in the MA and IA.

Since 310BC Pasargadae was at pop 12 and producing 18 shields per turn after corruption.


All hand-build (or hurried), because despite of many elite immortal wins, no Great Leader appeared.

PTW Open.

Industrious and Scientific - hmm, that sounds like a Space Ship, and I haven't built one in a while.
So Spaceship it will be, with the fresh challenge for me to research as fast as possible.

4000BC. Settler S, Worker S-E irrigate. Research Pottery in 14. Warrior, Warrior, Granary.

Now that might seem a strange start, but I misunderstood the pregame discussion: I thought that only cities with pop>=7 will get 2 shields from Fur in the city center, so I desided to settle away from Furs and use it immediately.

But in fact it proved to be an excellent location, with access to 4 Furs at once instead of 3, and with yummy, perfect RCP4: 8 cities in a circle exactly 3 tiles from each other, 2 on the coast, 5 on rivers, 7 with a bonus resourse or FP. (see 1000BC attachment).

And it still can give 4-settler factory with micromanagement, but I replayed all of it after I submitted the game: for the game itself I didn't realize for a long time that I had to chop the forest to get 2f/2sh from Furs. D'oh! And I was wondering why this 4-settler factory never materialized...

In short, this stupidity lead to a slow start, I missed on eastern Iron and had to connect the one in the Northern jungle and thus it took a long time till I got Immortals.

But on the bright side: no disease and no Roman aggression. They just kept expanding all around me: my slow start gave them a lot of room to grow, I guess, so they didn't need a war.

1000BC: 6 towns, 1 settler, 1 worker, 16 pop, 1 granary, 1 barraks, 1 temple, 2 vet.archers, 8 warriors.
Contacts with Romans & Japan, 3 tuns to Lit.

210AD - enter MA, get Engineeering, we are the Republic.
Dow on Romans. Enter GA from Immortals.
GLH is being built, it will complete in 300s and then it'll be time for suiside Galleys.

Nata said:

PTW Open.

And it still can give 4-settler factory with micromanagement,

Click to expand...

I'm confused. To get 2-turn growth, you need +5 food. The only way to get that is using 3 of the floodplains.

At size 5, that leaves 2 workers for fur squares. 1 shield for the city center + 2 for each worker = 5 shields at size 5. You end up with a 4-turn sequence that looks like this:

turn 1 = 5 shields
turn 2 = 7 shields
turn 3 = 7 shields
turn 4 = 9 shields (when populating grows to 7)

That's only 28 shields. Are you sure you didn't have a 5-turn pump, and just think it was 4 turns? If you are sure it works, which squares did you use at size 5?

Skydance said:

turn 1 = 5 shields
turn 2 = 7 shields
turn 3 = 7 shields
turn 4 = 9 shields (when populating grows to 7)

That's only 28 shields. Are you sure you didn't have a 5-turn pump, and just think it was 4 turns? If you are sure it works, which squares did you use at size 5?

Click to expand...

Nata may well start the 4 turn sequence at size 5.5. That would mean 7 shields on the first turn (hopefully) and the rest will work itself out.

But that doesn't work, does it? If you build a settler at size 7 with 15 food in the bin, the town drops to size 5 with 10 food.
5.5 -> 6.0 -> 6.5 -> 7.0 -> 7.5 (5.0)
At least that's what I thought, and what I experienced in GOTM40. Is this wrong?

Skydance said:

Are you sure you didn't have a 5-turn pump, and just think it was 4 turns? If you are sure it works, which squares did you use at size 5?

Click to expand...

He said a 4-turn factory never did materialise during his game. I think you've demonstrated why .

I wasn't sure, Alan, since he implied he went back an replayed the game later (for educational purposes).

I was taught that settler pumps can't go to 7.5 population (because the granary drops to 0 when it changes from 10-capacity to 20-capacity). You can avoid that by popping out a settler or worker on the in-between-turns when you would have hit 7, but if you ever actually see 7 on the map, you'll have an empty granary, and defeat the whole benefit of having one.

I agree. I don't think you can do 4-turn settlers without building on fur.

No, I just tested it. As long as you have +5 food when you're size 7.0 you will keep 15 food i.e. full granary and 5 more. <--- Edit: Wrong, but you do get a full granary.

Starting situation:



Granary emptied:



Settler finished. Granary full again. As usual, the governor doesn't know about settler factories:



Pretty expensive though, luxury wise.

But you're not back to your starting situation, so you won't build another settler in another 4 turns

You're right, Alan. You'd have to build a warrior in between. How could I miss that?

Hi all!
My game is going well. I will post details later, when I have more time.

I just wanted to address Offa et.al. questions about governor allocation

Govenors
This is my (unconfirmed) EDIT: AND SOMEWHAT WRONG (SEE LATER POST) understanding of governor logic.

1. Find the most valuable tile (sum of food, sheild and commerce)
2. In the event of a tie: Check that food will be >=+3fpt after the tile is added.
3. If there is still a tie (food is the same): Check if any emphasis was player-selected. (If shields emphasized, pick the tile with greater shields)
4. If there is still a tieick one based on city location (I haven't confirmed if there is a tile order or if it's just a random act)

So in Offa's first case, the FP (3f+1c=4) and the FurForest (1f+2s+1c=4) tied, but the tie breaker is the +3fpt. If the governor picks the FurForest, Persepolis only makes +2fpt.

In Offa's second case, the RiverFurForest (1f+2S+2g=5) is the highest tile and is picked over the FP (3f+1c=4).

I have never been surprized by the governor using this rational, but I haven't tested it thouroughly. Let me know if you find an example that refutes this.

Megalou, thanks for clarification!

It was indeed more like 4.5 turns settler factories but I could get a settler in 4 turns.

I thought that +5 food on size 7 will carry over to +5 food on a half-granary in size 5.

So I thought it should work like this (copying from someone's pregame post):

Size 5.5->6, 7 shields (City, 3FPs, 2 furs + forest on growth)
Size 6->6.5, 7 shields (City, 3FPs, 3 furs)
Size 6.5->7, 9 shields (City, 3FPs, 3 furs + forest on growth)
Size 7->7.5(5.5), 9 shields (City, 3FPs, 4 furs + 5 food to carry over to 5)

So we'll get 32 shields, with a bit spilled over.
It worked like this on and off, but I did build stuff in between.

Thanks again, Megalou, I will know now that it doesn't work.
Also, I finally figured out how settler factories work, and how to add up shields and food. I hope it helps me in the next game.

Open, PtW
No real plan as yet.

I founded on the Flood Plain to the SE, and set up Persepolis as a 4-turn Settler factory. Almost as soon as it was ready, I got disease I also messed up my RCP - I went for 4, whereas 5 was more logical, given where the coast is.

Eschewing the jungle to the north - aside from the one Iron source - I settled to the south, west, and east, towards Rome.

In around 850BC, I declared on Rome and sent in half a dozen Archers, with more following.

I entered the Middle Ages in 250BC, after an eventful enough Ancient Age. I haven't revolted yet so my pronlonged war with Rome - culminating in the taking of the capital, repleat with The Pyramids and The Great Library - was fought with Archers. Rome being on a hill, I needed all but one of the 10 I took to its walls for it to fall.

Rome still has two Iron sources. In 20 turns' time, I'll hit them with Immortals and it'll all be over for Julius. I should be able to split my forces and go after Japan at the same time.

In 250BC, here is my world:


Neil.

Thanks ControlFreak.

Would that mean even if you have >3fpt you may not get to work the forest?
I had assumed you were safe with high food towns.

Offa said:

Thanks ControlFreak.

Would that mean even if you have >3fpt you may not get to work the forest?
I had assumed you were safe with high food towns.

Click to expand...

At greater than 3fpt, assuming equal number of icons (sum of food, shield, commerce), it will chose the forest unless you emphasize food. And if the forest square has more icons then it will pick the forest even with food emphasized. That's annoying to me because there are towns that don't need the shields on growth, that I would like to keep at 5fpt. I must keep micromanaging them back to high food.

Suppose I have an unused roaded floodplain (3fpt+2gpt = 5) and my city is at pop 5, 15 food in the bin, producing 5fpt, and about to grow. Are you saying that, with the governor set to emphasise shields, my extra citizen will *not* work a forest (1fpt+2spt = 3) to give me 2 shields in the interturn?

Vanilla, open class.

This is my 1st GOTM attempt and some interesting events happened, both lucky and unlucky. I got very early contacts with Rome and Japan, and made some very profitable trades. I was hit by the disease only once, in the capital, but the city was size 2 so it lost only 1 pop instead of 2, and i got only 1 turn of anarchy when switching to monarchy. On the other hand, my immortals had abysmal results. Lost 4 units attacking Roman weak harassers. 2 were spears, 1 archer and 1 warrior!!! All the attacks made in open terrain to unfortified units and without crossing a river. Then, i got some unlucky strikes that slowed my assimilation of Rome. Two attacks were repealed.

Off the game, i had a major system failure that ended up in 2 days lost reformatting my box and reinstalling everything. I lost a few turns played (didn't remember to copy the autosaves damn me!), then when replaying the missing part things went far worse than in the "lost timeline".

Entered middle ages in 70BC. I've almost assimilated Rome (2 cities left) and i'm already building up troops for the obliteration of Japan. Still no contact with other civilizations.

I'll post a detailed log tomorrow. I'm going for the military option, what else?