SGOTM 11 - ChokoMisfits

BtS SGOTM 11 - Welcome the Goddess

Welcome to your BtS SGOTM 11 Team Thread. Please use it for all internal team communication, turn logs and discussions. Subscribe to it to receive notifications, and do not visit the other team threads for this game until you have finished. Please also subscribe to the Maintenance Thread for this game, where teams and staff may post non-spoiler information of general interest.

You are playing as Gandhi and, appropriately, your civilization is dedicated to the worship of the Goddess of Peace, Eldine, who will enter the world to bring in an era of everlasting happiness on the very day that you prove her righteousness to the world by securing a peaceful victory over the other civilizations. There is but one problem. Eldine is currently naked and must be clothed when she enters the world. In order to clothe her in a manner as befits a great Goddess, you must have access to fur, dye, silk and ivory. Your Holy books tell you that Eldine will use the fur as a portal through which to enter the world, and to demonstrate your devotion to her, you must have a welcoming party ready on the fur: Four great people (to symbolise Eldine's greatness) and four warriors (to symbolise the toil and labour as you raised Eldine's great civilization from a single settler). This will be no easy feat, since rumour has it that fur is so rare that only one unique supply exists, and that is heavily guarded by the most vile barbarians. Doubtless this was the result of meddling by the Devil Satan when the world was young and the Gods not paying sufficient attention.

Oh, and Eldine detests war and all its trappings. On the day she enters the world, she will question your brother and sister AI civs to ascertain how you have treated them, and will be distressed beyond belief should she discover that you have been excessively warlike towards them - in that case she will reject your civilization and look for more worthy worshippers.

Your aim in this game is to welcome in Eldine by securing a cultural or diplomatic victory that satisfies the following conditions:

• Every AI is still alive and running a state religion.
• All your cities have access to fur, dye, silk and ivory.
• You have the welcoming party of four great people and four warriors standing ready on the only fur in the world. (The great people can be of any type)
• You are running a state religion which has been spread to every one of your cities.
• No more than two AIs have a 'you declared war on us' negative modifier towards you.

The winner of the competition is the team that secures the earliest (measured by date) cultural or diplomatic victory where all these conditions are satisfied on the turn of your victory. Obviously your game is forfeit should you lose the game or win by some other victory condition. If you win a cultural or diplomatic victory without satisfying all the conditions, your game will be listed and ranked within a secondary group for the amusement of other teams (especially if you do something silly that makes it impossible for you satisfy the conditions, like letting ivory become obsolete, or having fewer than 4 warriors when your tech becomes too advanced to let you build any more).

Timetable
The start files will be published on Friday, April 23 here. There will be one start file per team. Please ensure that you only download your own team file.

The finish deadline is August 23 2010. If any team has not finished by this date they will be deemed to have retired, and will not be eligible for any awards.

Starting Position
Here's the starting position - click the image below to see a larger version.



Map Parameters

• Playable Leader/Civ - Gandhi of India
• Traits - Spiritual, Philosophical (starts with Mysticism and Mining)
• Unique Unit - Fast Worker (replaces Worker)
• Unique Building - Mausoleum (replaces Jail)
• Starting Era - Ancient
• Difficulty - Emperor
• Game Speed - Epic (750 turns)
• World size - Standard
• Rivals - Six
• Landform - Fractal
• Sea level - Medium
• Climate - Temperate
• Other settings - No goodie huts, No events
• Victory Conditions - All enabled

Notes

• Versions
  This game will be played in Civilization IV Beyond the Sword, version 3.19, using the HoF Mod BUFFY-3.19.003. This HoF Mod version is available here.
  
  If a later BtS patch, or BUFFY version, is released during this game you will NOT be able to use it to play. You will need to complete this game in the above versions before updating your copy of BtS, or create and update a separate copy.
  
  Mac players can only join in if they are able to run the Windows game on their system.
  
• Awards
  Teams will compete for up to four awards - the Gold, Silver and Bronze Laurels for the Fastest victory that meets the above stated conditions, and the Wooden Spoons for the lowest scoring finisher.
  
• Rules and Procedures
  Please visit the Civ4 SGOTM reference thread to check out the rules and procedures to ensure that you are adequately prepared for this game.
  
  All saved game files uploaded to the server are parsed through software that extracts and archives data about your save, including reload count for each turn set.

Have fun

General Strategy Plans


Aiming for UN Diplomatic Victory

Cottage Economy for Capital, to maximize return from Bureaucracy

Specialist Economy for subsequent cities, to maximize return from Representation

Quickly settle the prime city locations in the land between ourselves and Zara, but DO NOT DoW Zara in the early stages of the game


Specific Targets, and Dates Accomplished


Beeline Science Academy in Capital - completed in 1750BC

Beeline Pyramids in Capital, and switch immediately to Representation - Pyramids completed in 1275BC

Ignore the Oracle, as not a worthwhile investment - built in a distant land in 1275BC - we had other priorities (Pyramids and REx) so did not compete for The Oracle

Beeline Education, via the Theology branch (NOT the Civil Service branch) - Education completed in 55AD

Beeline Oxford University in Capital - completed in 355AD

Locate and Capture the Barbarian Furs city - captured in 1040AD

Be the first to Liberalism, and take Radio for free, to minimise research beakers - First to Liberalism in 1080AD (very close race - same turn as Saladin!!!), took Radio for free

Save our 2 DoWs until late in the game, and DoW someone who would not have voted for us in the election - waited until 1305AD, then DoW'd Mehmed, and his vassal Isabella, as they would not have voted for us, and we needed Mehmed's large cities to be part of our empire, to get their votes in the UN Diplo Victory election

Beeline Mass Media - completed in 1330AD

Generate a Great Engineer, and use him to build United Nations in Capital, supported by Forest Chops - UN completed, via Great Engineer and Forest Chops, in 1350AD

Maintain sufficient good relations with AIs to win the first Diplo Victory vote - WINNERS of the first Diplo Victory vote in 1400AD

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Summary by Turnset


4000BC - 3325BC - haphazard1 (1) - April 26 - founded Capital, met Zara Yaqob, initial exploration

3325BC - 2950BC - ianw1610 (1) - April 28 - lost initial Warrior to Barbs, adopted Slavery, whipped Fast Worker, mined Silver

2950BC - 2525BC - Sleepless (1) - April 30 - built more Warriors, found several high-food sites, noted that Zara has already met a further AI

2525BC - 2275BC - Sun Tzu Wu (1) - May 3 - founded OasisWheat, completed research of Writing

2275BC - 1750BC - JerichoHill (1) - May 15 - OB with Zara, Zara adopts Buddhism, Stonehenge built IADL

1750BC - 1350BC - haphazard1 (2) - May 18 - Great Scientist - Academy in Capital, founded HorseCopper, connected Stone & Copper, pre-chopped Pyramid forests, Great Wall & Temple of Artemis built IADL

1350BC - 1075BC - ianw1610 (2) - May 21 - Pyramids completed, Oracle built IADL, founded PigFish, researched Maths, AH, Fishing and Sailing

1075BC - 775BC - Sleepless (2) - May 26 - RiceMarble founded, Zara completes Alphabet

775BC - 525BC - Sun Tzu Wu (2) - May 30 - Met Saladin, Isabella & Justinian, ThreeClams founded

525BC - 395BC - JerichoHill (2) - June 5 - Completed Hanging Gardens, met Tokugawa, obtained Alphabet and several other Techs from Trading

395BC - 245BC - Mighty Dwaarf (1) - June 10 - Started building Great Library, Parthenon & Shwedagon Peya. Some Seafood pillaged by Barb Galley

245BC - 25AD - ianw1610 (3) - June 16 - Completed Great Library, Parthenon & Shwedagon Peya, researched Theology, bulbed Paper, bulbed most of Education, met Mehmed, mapped the world and the key resources

25AD - 235AD - haphazard1 (3) - June 21 - Completed Research of Education, Researched Music for Great Artist, built 6 Universities, founded CrabTown, noted the Ice and Mountains in the Barb lands, Zara settled Sugar Island

235AD - 385AD - Sleepless (3) - June 26 - Built Oxford University, researched Compass, traded to get Code of Laws, Currency, Philosophy & Feudalism

385AD - 610AD - Sun Tzu Wu (3) - July 1 - Founded SilverWhale & DeerFish, researched Civil Service & Printing Press, traded for Metal Casting & Machinery, found Barb city DevilsGate, Mehmed captured Madrid from Isabella, Saladin built Apostolic Palace as Hindu

610AD - 775AD - Mighty Dwaarf (2) - July 7 - Traded for Optics & HBR, built army to invade Barb lands, stopped trading with Mehmed, Sistine Chapel built by Saladin

775AD - 910AD - JerichoHill (3) - July 12 - Researched Astronomy and Liberalism (stopped 1 turn from completion), first Great Engineer born, shipped army to Barb lands, Isabella reduced to 1 city and vassalized to Mehmed

910AD - 1060AD - haphazard1 (4) - July 15 - Researched SciMeth and bulbed Physics, traded for Engineering, captured Barb cities DevilsGate & Zhou to enable access to Fur, converted to Hinduism, noted that the Liberalism race with Saladin would be decided by 1 turn either way

1060AD - 1200AD - ianw1610 (4) - July 21 - Bulbed Electricity and completed Liberalism on same turn as Saladin, taking Radio for free, researched most of Communism for free Great Spy, traded for Banking & MilTrad, built up an invasion force to attack Mehmed

1200AD - 1260AD - Sleepless (4) - July 27 - Completed Communism for Great Spy, transported troops to Mehmed's lands for War, noted that Mehmed is sending a SoD towards us and that he may DoW us soon

1260AD - 1335AD - Sun Tzu Wu (4) - August 7 - Mehmed did not DoW us, so we DoW'd Mehmed, and his vassal, Isabella (our 2 DoWs for the game), burned Great Spy against Mehmed, captured 5 of Mehmed's cities, plus 1 Barbarian city, accepted Zara's offer to peacefully vassalize to us, completed research of Mass Media, generated our 2nd, 3rd and 4th Great People, and started to transport them to the Fur, noted that Hindu Missionaries would be our biggest constraint for victory

1335AD - 1370AD - Mighty Dwaarf (3) - August 11 - Started our first Golden Age, by burning a Great Scientist. Burned Great Engineer and Chopped 2 Forests, to complete UN in 3 turns - elected Secretary General, Captured 1 last city from Mehmed, then took a Cease Fire with Mehmed & Isabella. Isabella broke free from Mehmed. Converted to Universal Suffrage and ran 100% Wealth to buy Hindu Missionaries - converted all except one of our cities to Hindu, placed 4 Great People on the Fur, along with the 4 Warriors, noted that the Diplo Victory result will be announced after 6 more turns, and that we hold a projected 64% of the vote, versus the 60% target

1370AD - 1400AD - JerichoHill (4) - August 12 - Converted our last city to Hindu, bribed AIs into a Civic change to preclude them suddenly revolting to Free Religion, won the first Diplo Victory vote in 1400AD

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Roster Order


haphazard1

ianw1610

Sleepless

Sun Tzu Wu

Mighty Dwaarf

JerichoHill ---> Just Played


McArine - lurker only

Ozbenno - lurker only

ArcadicGamer - lurker only

.

Monitoring of Individual Game Rules


Our Victory Condition must be either Cultural or UN Diplomatic ---> True. UN Diplomatic Victory accomplished

Every AI must be alive ---> True

Every AI must be running a state religion ---> True. The 4 civs with Theocracy as a favourite Civic are running Theocracy. The 2 other civs (Tokugawa and Mehmed) do not have Liberalism so cannot convert to Free Religion

Our own state religion must be spread to every one of our cities ---> True - Hinduism is in all our cities.

All our cities must have access to Fur, Dye, Silk and Ivory ---> True. Ivory is via a trade from our vassal, Zara, backed up by a further trade from Justinian. In our lands, there are 3 x Dye Plantations, 2 x Silk Plantations and 1 x Fur Camp, and we are protecting them all with Military Units and Spies. We had no intention of ever researching Industrialism or Plastics to obsolete Ivory or Fur.

A welcoming party of 4 Great People (of any type) and 4 Warriors must be standing ready on the only fur in the world ---> True. 4 x Warriors, 2 x Great Generals, 1 x Great Scientist and 1 x Great Artist are currently positioned on the Fur.

No more than two AIs may have a 'you declared war on us' negative modifier towards us ---> True. We DoW'd only Mehmed and Isabella.

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Checking In!!

I’m looking forward to a successful SGOTM-11 campaign with the newly-structured team, and looking forward to avoiding a third straight wooden spoon!!!

I’m sure I’ll enjoy participating in the ChokoMisfits team with each one of you!

A very interesting SGTOM.

Cultural Victory or a TUN Diplomatic Victory:

The biggest question is whether to pursue a Cultural Victory or a TUN Diplomatic Victory. From the respective HOF Emperor, Epic Tables, it appears that it may be easier to Win an earlier TUN Diplomatic Victory than a Cultural Victory. Although a bee-line to Mass Media with a Great Engineer ready to build TUN sounds very promising, I would not rule out an early Cultural Victory and its lower dependency on Diplomatic Relations.

All AI Opponents must have a State Religion on the Victory Turn:

This might be easiest by allowing the AI Opponents to found very few Religions. Most AI Opponents are extremely likely to keep a State Religion throughout the entire Game, at least through TUN Diplomatic or Cultural Victory when they have only 1 or 2 Religions within their Boundaries.

Location and possession of the Fur:

The Fur must be located, controlling City, if any, captured and retained till the Goddess of Peace, Eldine, arrives. It may be desirable to raze the controlling City and found a City directly on the Fur to more easily defend it.

I have concerns that the Fur is between three or more AI Civs should may make it difficult to acquire without declaring War on more than two AI Civs. The label Barbarians (rumor says vile Barbarians control the Fur) could easily apply to AI Civs as well as true Barbarians, or am I being too suspicious?

The four Warriors and four Great People:

Obviously, the four Warriors and some spare must be built while our Empire is capable of building them.

The four Great People should be easy to generate. Many Great Artists are critical for a Cultural Victory and sparing four would cause the Win Date to suffer a few turns. Many Great Scientists would speed the bee-line to Mass Media and the TUN Diplomatic Victory Date would also suffer by sparing four Great People. Thus, it is clear that the four Great People would likely be the last four generated just prior to Victory. Careful calculation of this could help us achieve a #1 position.

Free Great People: We must consider getting as many free Great People as possible. We can save the less desirable Great People for the Fur tile and the final turn.

Great Generals: A diversion to Fascism could gain us a one free Great General. Conducting Wars can gain us three more without using up any GPPs. Four Great Generals for the Fur and final turn is a desirable option.

That's all I have for now.

Sun Tzu Wu

So... for those of you who don’t know me, a few brief notes about my “Real Life”...

- I’m 31 years old, and from England

- I work in an Internal Audit / Business Risk role for a big, big, big US Multinational firm

- I’m interested in all sports – especially football (or “soccer” as it is known elsewhere in the world...) I support Everton Football Club


I’ve attached below a test game save. I think it would be a good idea if you all downloaded it and played it as individuals, and we can then discuss all our findings in this thread. I’ve tried my best to interpret the rules and design of my test game, based on AlanH’s initial posting.

As this is only a test game, I did not lock the modified assets, so WorldBuilder access is available if there is some sort of crisis in your game (although obviously this will not be available in the real game!!)

I’ll put my thoughts into the next post in this thread...

Ok... so, my thoughts, from playing a few run-throughs of my test game, as attached to the above post...

The starting screen for the test game was based on the real game, and I noted that Commerce was very sparse early on. REX at the start of the game was tough to fund.

Having played for both eventualities, I preferred the Diplomatic Victory option, over the Cultural Victory option, because when playing Cultural, the Culture slider will at some point be set to 100%, meaning we drop behind both technologically and militarily. I think we should decide our chosen victory condition pre-game and aim for the appropriate wonders (Diplomatic would be consistent with aiming for early Pyramids... Cultural would be consistent with aiming for early Parthenon).

I actually “lost” one of my games (according to the specific rules) VERY early on. I got a message to say that I distant AI, that I had not yet met, had been killed – and it is not allowed in the rules of the game for any AIs to die. I obviously hope that nobody from a far-away land is killed in the real game as that would be a very harsh and unpreventable way to miss out on the honours.

For all the peaceful intentions of the game description, this game will for sure include lots of warring, against our 2 chosen victims. Assuming we are playing for a Diplomatic victory, we need to ensure that we vassalize both of our chosen victims so that they will vote for us in the election, whilst not exceeding the Domination victory limits.

Ivory is a risky commodity. I was trading for Ivory with a trading partner, when he suddenly teched Industrialism. This resulted in the trade being cancelled, and resulted in me having no more access to Ivory – and thereby “losing” the game according to the game rule that we must have Ivory. It is preferable for Ivory that we obtain a source within our own borders rather than relying on trading to get it. Obviously we, ourselves, will never be able to tech Industrialism.

As the real game (and my test game) demonstrates only one source of Fur in the world (guarded by Barbarians), we will need to take that Barb city for ourselves. We cannot tech Plastics, as that would obsolete the Fur

Having 4 Warriors and 4 Great People in play at the end is not a problem to obtain – especially as we are Philosophical so generate lots of GPPs anyway.

Having said that, the only source of Fur on my test map was beside a Barb city that was not reachable by Galley, so I needed to ship my Warriors and Great People across the oceans in Galleons, to meet the game rule of standing them directly on top of the Fur. In shipping these units, we need to beware of Privateers... as it would be game-breaking for us, were a Privateer to sink our transporting Galleon, with the crucial Warriors and/or Great People on board. I waited until I had traded for Chemistry before I transported these units across the oceans, specifically to produce escorting Frigates for my Galleons.

I had some problems with the “You traded with our worst enemy” penalty, caused by trading with someone from the other side of the ocean, before I had met all rivals from that same distant continent. If meeting an individual AI from overseas for the first time, it may be prudent to avoid any trading with that AI, until all AIs have been met, due to the risk that someone we have not yet met may consider that leader as the worst enemy.

If an AI demands a tech in tribute, we need to check immediately via the F5 key as to whether it would be better to accept or reject the demand. F5 lists all worst enemies... if we refuse a tech tribute demand, we will get a -1 hit... however, if the leader is question is someone else’s worst enemy (as defined by F5), and we give in to the demand, this could give us a -4 penalty as it would be considered as “trading with worst enemy”. That potential -4 from accepting the demand may hurt us more in the long run than the basic -1 from rejecting the demand.

The current version of the BUFFY mod has overhauled the Diplomatic Victory screen, and is now far more user friendly in terms of defining how many votes are held by all AIs, the relations with the candidates, and the likely distribution of the victory vote. If we are playing for a Diplomatic Victory, we will need to pay particular attention to this screen.

The requirement for all AIs to be running a State Religion at the end of the game can seem problematic if our opponents are running Free Religion and refusing to switch back to something else by way of Diplomatic negotiation. To counter this, late in the game it will be necessary to generate lots of Espionage points, and send out Spies, to incite Civic revolts, to bring our AI rivals back into Organized Religion, Pacifism, etc. I found that ~50% of Spies were captured before attempting their mission, and from the remaining Spies, ~50% were captured whilst attempting their mission. Net, around 25% of Spies were successful.

Note that our rivals can only change Civics once every 5 turns, so if we note that we are within 5 turns of a game-winning UN victory vote, it would be a good idea for our Spies to incite Civic revolts in all rival nations, in order that, on the victory turn, there is no risk of one of our rivals revolting to Free Religion (as they are still in the 5-turn amnesty period). Our Spies can also incite changes of Religion, which could be the difference between someone voting for us in the UN victory election or not. Be careful, however, of negative Diplomatic hits from our Spies “causing trouble”, if aiming for a Diplomatic Victory.

On the same topic, also beware of the Cristo Redentor wonder (unlocked by Radio) which eliminates the 5-turn Civic-change rule, and which could therefore allow one of our rivals to revolt to Free Religion in the in between turn of a Diplomatic Victory vote, and cancel out the work of our Spy, and “lose” the game for us according to the State Religion rule.. We may want to consider building Cristo Redentor for ourselves to avoid this eventuality which could occur on the last turn of our game.

I’m looking forward to reading the thoughts of the rest of you, and to discussing how to progress further!!!

There are many ways of dealing with The Apostolic Palace.

In my opinion, the best one is building it ourselves using a Religion we found and do not spread it to an AI Civ intensionally.

Just wanted to post this trivial idea before I forget about it.

Sun Tzu Wu

P.S. We will probably need to deal with AI Civs that have Free Religion as Favourite Civic. I hope ianw1610's great idea of using Spies works on these hard case AI Civs. I had a recent Game where Asoka simply converted to No State Religion before anyone had Liberalism; that was strange.

Hello Team!

First off, let me say that I'd like to be put towards the end of the rotation as I have a PhD Final on May 6th, and then am free for 4 months! But until then, I won't have much time.

Good to see a full team.

Who am I?
A 31 year old married economist halfway through his PhD. I will be visiting England in June so fellow ChokoFits who are in England I would enjoy meeting.

Goal: Avoid the Spoon

Starting Location: I am a sucker for the plains hill

On being limited to two war declarations : No worries, we will just goad people into war against us.

--Reply to Sun Tzu Wu
Given that I want to exploit AI's tendency to DoW hated CIVs, thus saving war declarations for resources, I anticipate having a large empire. That leads me to think a UN Diplo Victory is our target.

The religion thing is tricky. We can bribe AI into state religions, but yes, controlling religious spread would be key.

I believe we will need to city the fur. We will need to control Ivory

I am not worried about 4 Great People. We will have quite a few warriors though just in case.

Me checking in as well.

Looking forward to this game and had a few thoughts as well. I'll have a go at Ianw1610 test map beofre I go into a lot of detail (not that I do a lot of detail anyway ).

I assume the fur will only be available with astro. Surprised if it isn't. This leads to us needing more techs whcih would slow down a cultural victory. Leading to a possible UN victory being the fastest.

Lots of scientists will bulb us towards electricity. Not sure what I would take with Lib but being philo we have cheap unis leading to a faster Oxford and quicker tech pace.

As for the state religion problem. If we get to Lib first most of the AI avoid it hence no FR. Also it might be an idea to go for the SPaya as a Liz etc will adopt FR from that.

@IanW an Everton fan in Newcastle? Least you get to see them next season.

As for me. Very old now. 47 . Mental age around 10. Least I haven't grown up yet. Not likely to either.

As for work a boring job in a boring railway industry. Pays my bills and I don't have to think to much. Reasonably intelligent but too lazy to use it.

Off work in a couple of hours and have a play at the test game. I expect having some religious friends will be a necessity as well.

As for the other ex-Chokonuts, McArine should be checking in soon. Ozbenno (our former team leader) will participate as a lurker only on this occasion. Mighty Dwaarf is getting married on Saturday and will be unavailable for 3 or 4 weeks, but he will check in to this thread eventually. For some reason, he has better things to do on his wedding night, other than testing strategies in the practice game...

I forgot to add in my above post that each of our cities must be running our state religion, so if playing Diplomatic we need to watch out for being asked to change religion late in the game to a religion which has not spread.

Sun Tzu Wu said:

I have concerns that the Fur is between three or more AI Civs should may make it difficult to acquire without declaring War on more than two AI Civs. The label Barbarians (rumor says vile Barbarians control the Fur) could easily apply to AI Civs as well as true Barbarians, or am I being too suspicious?

Click to expand...

In my test game, I took Alan's instructions literally, and placed the world's one source of Fur beside a Barb city, but yes it may mean that it is merely guarded my many AIs.


Anyway, off-topic......

JerichoHill said:

I will be visiting England in June so fellow ChokoFits who are in England I would enjoy meeting.

Click to expand...

Keep me updated! During the World Cup, as well !! I live in Newcastle, which is the most Northerly city in England - close to the border with Scotland. 3 hours by train from London...

Sleepless said:

@IanW an Everton fan in Newcastle? Least you get to see them next season.

Click to expand...

Yes, I didn't see last year's game (the one where Arteta and Anichebe both got badly injured) - maybe next season... it is always good to beat newly-promoted minnows......

I'm a much more active follower of Exeter City (I went to University in Exeter and started following them...) Even when they were in the Conference, I watched them many times, and now they are up to League 1 !! I'll be sure to attend their big relegation clash at Hartlepool in 10 days!!

Checking in, and looking forward to playing this SGOTM with all of you.

I will also try the test game before posting too many detailed thoughts. I agree that we need to decide before we begin which victory condition we will aim for. UN Diplo seems likely to be faster, but will also involve a lot more aggravation dealing with touchy AI egos.

Vassals is certainly one possible answer, and we can vassalize as many AIs as declare war on us, plus two we declare war on.

Grabbing Shwedagon Paya is a very good idea, one I had not considered. We should make a list of wonders we strongly want, wonders which would be useful but not critical, and wonders we don't care about at all.

We need to find the fur and control it, and I agree that it would be best if we can control an ivory source directly as well. Trading for it would be risky. Dye and silk will hopefully be a bit easier, but we need to focus on locating and controlling these as well.

Lots of early exploration will be needed to meet all AIs as quickly as possible, to help prevent any AI deaths. Exploration will help in finding the crucial resources as well.

More thoughts after I give the test game a try.

Well I played to approx 200AD. very sloppily I might add.

Our neighbours aren't the best and I think they are going to have a big influence on the way we go here. One trick which I don't like using but certainly not against it in this game if needed is the gift crappy city one. Instant open borders with Tok. have to check the exploits but don't think it is. Didn't use it in this game though I probably should have done. Saved me a few techs I gifted him.

GP with a philo leader isn't going to be hard. A music beeline via Lit and the GLib wouldn't be a bad idea. Certainly works for the GPs and gives us the option of Sistines. Not very good I suppose for a cultural though as we would end up with 2 many GSs.

I made a couple (lots ) of errors. Not settling the silk when I could. I think we should prioritise settling our needed resources. If possible. Or keep a settler ready to settle as dye is likely to be in jungle and we don't want to crash our economy to much early.

Just in case concerning the test game.

A lot of the features of the test game I added in by design. Opponents were hand picked, and had their starting positions meticulously chosen to cause us as many problems as possible. And I intentionally gave the player the dilemma of choosing between settling the jungle-infested silk, or the other riches, in the other direction (as mapmakers can be cruel like that!)

You may find the favourite Civics of the opponents to be challenging to you also......

Hi guys! Wish I could play with y'all, but it's just not working out for me. I'll be lurking, though!

MoA

Checking in

I've also been thinking about going for the diplomatic victory.
I'll try to play the test game tomorrow.

About me:
I'm from Silkeborg in Denmark

I'm also 31.

And I'm a software developer in one of the largest banks in Denmark.

Well I played the test game up to 1410AD

Sleepless,

If we decide to go cultural, I think we need to decide very early. Probably even before starting the game, as cultural would likely mean chasing at least one early religion. Could be a very large difference in initial tech paths.

I have seen AIs switch out of their favorite civics. In fact, we (Misfits) saw this last SGOTM with Roosevelt. But as we saw in that case, they will tend to keep switching back to their fave civic after only a short time. So if we have to use espionage to force AIs back to religion, ianw1610 is correct that we should time this very carefully to prevent a change back before our victory turn completes.