King of the World #19: Qin Shi Huang
- Thread starter Neal
- Start date
First a question, does the always war mod allow capitulations? Would all your enemies influence the willingness to cap?
Important points in order:
Chariot Rush Mongols
Oracle Metal Casting
Beeline Construction
Great Scientist Bulb Machinery
Kill Toku with Cho-Ku-No Catapults and War Elephants
Take over all of continental Asia
Settle Indonesia and Australia and your leisure
Get caravels our to check up on the power of the new world
If possible early astronomy to take your continent winning army to the new world and gain control of the americas
Important points in order:
Chariot Rush Mongols
Oracle Metal Casting
Beeline Construction
Great Scientist Bulb Machinery
Kill Toku with Cho-Ku-No Catapults and War Elephants
Take over all of continental Asia
Settle Indonesia and Australia and your leisure
Get caravels our to check up on the power of the new world
If possible early astronomy to take your continent winning army to the new world and gain control of the americas
Silv Something
Pi(e) Loving Maniac
Hooray! Neal has returned!
The Oz-Man
Enter: The VAIKE!
I was wondering this, too. Presumably since capitulation is part of the terms of a peace treaty (which should be impossible), I'd say probably not. I'm interested in seeing how the other implications of Always War play out--presumably it means no trading as well.
What about war weariness? Is
just going to become the new normal?I was wondering this, too. Presumably since capitulation is part of the terms of a peace treaty (which should be impossible), I'd say probably not. I'm interested in seeing how the other implications of Always War play out--presumably it means no trading as well.
What about war weariness? Is
In normal Always War settings, war weariness exists but its growth is cut by 50%. Which is fine - you don't get very much war weariness at all from sitting back on the defensive, and it is civilization-specific, so you just need to make one decisive offensive push that eliminates the enemy civ, then sit back defending while you build up to eliminate the next civ quickly.
ben-jammin
Emperor
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2011
- Messages
- 1,436
Bulbing machinery quickly enough should net you most of asia on AW at this difficulty. Protective Cho Ku No's promoted up the drill line own the battlefield in any role up until rifling.
You can't trade or capitulate in Always War. Generally espionage is tough too because you're everyone's worst enemy and they all invest EP's in you but here everyone will be fighting everyone so stealing technology can be a good way to stay ahead of the curve me thinks. 
The amount of EPs that a civ invests in you doesn't matter for tech-stealing costs. It's only the total number of EPs that an enemy civ has generated that is significant. That said, Always War means no 20% Open Borders discount, makes it hard to reliably get the religious discount, and makes your spies more likely to get caught (making it harder to get the 50% stationary-spy discount).
The Oz-Man
Enter: The VAIKE!
Also, I missed this. Soul Calibur reference, and I'll take those five points on a gift card.
50% WW means turtling up until a decent stack can be assembled sounds ideal. Qin's unique in this regard in that his best midgame offensive option is also a decent defensive one as well. Man, I'm getting giddy. Hurry up and be tomorrow!
r_rolo1
King of myself
Well, Neal, I would also advise to first make a solid base and then storm the world.... that besides killing Japan and maybe the mongols ( they are a free XP source after all )
About game plan: you start very close of the mongols ( not close enough , though, to kill them with the starting warrior in normal speed ... in epic and marathon you can do it though ), so you need a decent defense. That is clearly a reason to get archery soon, since IIRC the closest metal is a iron resource in the starting BFC.
You are pretty much protected in the south by the jungles ( and anyway, it is Asoka that is downthere ... atleast until Cyrus kills him ), so I would probably send your city #2 to Korea to block both the Mongolians and the Japanese from it ( well the Japanese normally settle city #2 in their home island, but I've seen them sometimes settle it in Korea when they hut luck Sailing ) and then settle south. The land is rich enough to get a good bunch of cities fast without getting broke and you will probably be able to hold GK with a couple of CG II archers, so you might want to REX until RL north Vietnam.
)About game plan: you start very close of the mongols ( not close enough , though, to kill them with the starting warrior in normal speed ... in epic and marathon you can do it though ), so you need a decent defense. That is clearly a reason to get archery soon, since IIRC the closest metal is a iron resource in the starting BFC.
You are pretty much protected in the south by the jungles ( and anyway, it is Asoka that is downthere ... atleast until Cyrus kills him ), so I would probably send your city #2 to Korea to block both the Mongolians and the Japanese from it ( well the Japanese normally settle city #2 in their home island, but I've seen them sometimes settle it in Korea when they hut luck Sailing ) and then settle south. The land is rich enough to get a good bunch of cities fast without getting broke and you will probably be able to hold GK with a couple of CG II archers, so you might want to REX until RL north Vietnam.
Qin Shi Huang stirred, slowly. His joints ached from months of inactivity. "The King is awake!" exclaimed the medicine man by his side. "We'd thought you gone from us forever!"
"Indeed," Qin croaked, then broke into a fit of coughing. His mouth tasted of mothballs, and his mind was foggy. He cleared his throat, then continued. "Where do we stand?"
"Well, sire," the medicine man wheedled. He reeked of sweat and strange herbs from the field. "We have brought your litter to a fine place, teeming with grains of the earth and beasts of the field. Here, I say, we, I mean you, build a city and, from thence, found an empire to span the globe and pass the tests of time!"
The emperor, bleary-eyed, stepped from his tent and, squinting at the sunshine, surveyed his "fine place." It was adequate, no doubt. Wheat swayed in a gentle breeze, and Pigs grunted underfoot, oblivious to the hungry Settlers eyeing them. But something felt wrong. Qin Shi Huang's ears twitched. He heard waves crashing in the distance. "East," he grumbled.
"But, my lord," the medicine man simpered. "I myself have selected this place for-"
"EAST!" Qin roared. Birds took wing from a nearby forest as his echoes reverberated off the hills.
The coast was not far; the medicine man was truly an imbecile. No time at all was lost in establishing Beijing as a tent city on the shores of the Yellow Sea:
Qin was fully awake, fully alive now, but he still felt rusty. But the tasks in those early days were simple, and served to jog his long-buried memories of rule and conquest. The able-bodied members of the tribe were sent to work the Wheat fields. The best and brightest were told to research Bronze Working. And the rest (including those whom the emperor considered threats to his rule, including his worthless medicine man) were trained with Clubs and indoctrinated into the Way of the Warrior. The tribe's remaining protectors were sent into the southern mountains, told to bring back maps and the riches of far-off lands.
By 3900 B.C., life in Beijing had become routine. Generations had researched and died seeking the mysteries of Bronze, but Qin knew any significant breakthroughs were still centuries off. The Warriors were making slow but steady progress mapping the Himalayas. Mongolian Scouts crested a hill northwest of Qin's village. The emperor stepped out to meet them at the border, hoping to make the acquaintance of his neighbor and knowing they would not risk the affront of an invasion. But the Scouts made threatening whoops and cries and traipsed through Chinese territory as if the border were not even there:
In addition, in a dream, Qin Shi Huang saw a fine tent city, similar to Beijing, ruled by a white-haired man with a bearing of distinction. Club-wielding Warriors bore down upon the city and put it to the torch. The white-haired man cried out and was forever silenced. The emperor awoke in a cold sweat, knowing he had been visited by prophecy. Empires were toppling, kings were set against kings. "What madness is this?" Qin muttered before settling back into a feverish, restless sleep.
Indeed, the world itself had turned upon the Chinese people, for in their first contact with a Himalayan tribe, Qin's Warriors were set upon in an ambush:
And were never heard from again. The prevailing theory was that they were massacred to a man, but Qin suspected that they had "gone native," renouncing their oaths to China in favor of lives as simple men of the mountains.
Despite his empire's newfound lack of defenders, and the fact that he was surrounded by enemies, Qin decided that long-term growth was worth short-term risk. Once Beijing had doubled in size, the Warrior training program was shelved in favor of getting Workers out to improve Beijing's surroundings. Once Bronze-Working was acquired and Slavery became available, the emperor jumped at the chance:
After all, a fearful populace is a hard-working populace. And the medicine man was one of the first to be put into chains and sent to work the fields.
By 3125 B.C., though, Warriors patrolled the dirt roads of Beijing, and the Wheat to the southeast was properly cultivated. And the earth decided to reward the Chinese people for their proper stewardship:
Qin noted the Forest and promised to put it to the Axe soon. For as the poets say, a bounty ignored is a bounty wasted. And while a few free hammers won't make or break our game, every little bit helps, right?
Seoul was founded on the Korean peninsula so as to bring its riches into the empire:
Why his people had, centuries earlier, borne Qin to Beijing's comparatively worthless site rather than this paradise was beyond him. Ah, well. He was, at least, thankful that he had not been deposited in the barren hills of Tibet.
In 2525 B.C., Mongolian Settlers appeared within shouting distance of our capital:
The Settlers, spooked by China's skilled bowmen, retreated into Mongolia, but the Archers settled into our northern Forests and made themselves comfortable. I have not seen any further signs of the great Khan's second settlement. He doubtless sent it off to the frigid tundra, where he seems most comfortable.
Explorers from far-off Greece arrived in Southeast Asia, babbling incomprehensibly and, like every other people, refusing to engage in diplomacy:
Their presence means that goody-hut-seeking in Vietnam will be a pointless endeavor (as if it wasn't already). Not that said huts wouldn't just be full of more savages.
A quick raid to kill off a Mongolian Warrior squatting on the border gave us our first look at Karakorum:
The place was a hovel, people and animals sharing tents and burning dung for heat. Genghis Khan's procession could be seen parading up and down the empty streets, drinking fermented horse milk and bawling curses at the heavens. This was no way for a leader to act, Qin thought upon hearing the report. The mad dog would have to be put down, and soon. But Archers, while fine for defending cities and plinking brutes off of hills, are difficult to wield as an offensive weapon. After consulting with sages and learning the lessons of the past, he decided to give the fabled "Machinery slingshot" a go. Puzzled wise men were told to research Mysticism and Meditation so as to figure out how to best build a Crossbow. More Settlers were trained to cement China's grip on its stretch of East Asia.
And the Karakorum Settler, brazenly striking out to claim new lands, was captured by our heroic Archer unit:
I've always been bad about building Workers, and this was a quick and easy way to grab a second one.
So, in 1850, Shanghai was founded, making the Yellow Sea a Chinese lake and bringing an end to the round:
I've gotta get Pottery up and Seoul's forests pre-chopped before the Oracle completes. I need that Forge Engineer for the bulb! I just hope Louis or someone doesn't snatch the Wonder from me. Our defenses are also pretty thin, though our only real threat is Mongolia, and they seem to be floundering pretty bad. Seoul's Settler is bound for Pyongyang, 3N1W of Seoul, so as to work the southern Wheat and some Pigs that are grazing just out of the screenshot.
Here's a look at our Tech Picture:
Obviously, the plan is Wheel-Pottery-Iron Working, then I'll grab some badly needed backfill techs, like Animal Husbandry and Masonry. I think I'm in good shape. The game is honestly playing more "normally" than I'd expected. I'm surprised that Frederick is the only casualty thus far.
Here's a look at the save for those of you who are interested:
"Indeed," Qin croaked, then broke into a fit of coughing. His mouth tasted of mothballs, and his mind was foggy. He cleared his throat, then continued. "Where do we stand?"
"Well, sire," the medicine man wheedled. He reeked of sweat and strange herbs from the field. "We have brought your litter to a fine place, teeming with grains of the earth and beasts of the field. Here, I say, we, I mean you, build a city and, from thence, found an empire to span the globe and pass the tests of time!"
The emperor, bleary-eyed, stepped from his tent and, squinting at the sunshine, surveyed his "fine place." It was adequate, no doubt. Wheat swayed in a gentle breeze, and Pigs grunted underfoot, oblivious to the hungry Settlers eyeing them. But something felt wrong. Qin Shi Huang's ears twitched. He heard waves crashing in the distance. "East," he grumbled.
"But, my lord," the medicine man simpered. "I myself have selected this place for-"
"EAST!" Qin roared. Birds took wing from a nearby forest as his echoes reverberated off the hills.
The coast was not far; the medicine man was truly an imbecile. No time at all was lost in establishing Beijing as a tent city on the shores of the Yellow Sea:
Qin was fully awake, fully alive now, but he still felt rusty. But the tasks in those early days were simple, and served to jog his long-buried memories of rule and conquest. The able-bodied members of the tribe were sent to work the Wheat fields. The best and brightest were told to research Bronze Working. And the rest (including those whom the emperor considered threats to his rule, including his worthless medicine man) were trained with Clubs and indoctrinated into the Way of the Warrior. The tribe's remaining protectors were sent into the southern mountains, told to bring back maps and the riches of far-off lands.
By 3900 B.C., life in Beijing had become routine. Generations had researched and died seeking the mysteries of Bronze, but Qin knew any significant breakthroughs were still centuries off. The Warriors were making slow but steady progress mapping the Himalayas. Mongolian Scouts crested a hill northwest of Qin's village. The emperor stepped out to meet them at the border, hoping to make the acquaintance of his neighbor and knowing they would not risk the affront of an invasion. But the Scouts made threatening whoops and cries and traipsed through Chinese territory as if the border were not even there:
In addition, in a dream, Qin Shi Huang saw a fine tent city, similar to Beijing, ruled by a white-haired man with a bearing of distinction. Club-wielding Warriors bore down upon the city and put it to the torch. The white-haired man cried out and was forever silenced. The emperor awoke in a cold sweat, knowing he had been visited by prophecy. Empires were toppling, kings were set against kings. "What madness is this?" Qin muttered before settling back into a feverish, restless sleep.
Indeed, the world itself had turned upon the Chinese people, for in their first contact with a Himalayan tribe, Qin's Warriors were set upon in an ambush:
And were never heard from again. The prevailing theory was that they were massacred to a man, but Qin suspected that they had "gone native," renouncing their oaths to China in favor of lives as simple men of the mountains.
Despite his empire's newfound lack of defenders, and the fact that he was surrounded by enemies, Qin decided that long-term growth was worth short-term risk. Once Beijing had doubled in size, the Warrior training program was shelved in favor of getting Workers out to improve Beijing's surroundings. Once Bronze-Working was acquired and Slavery became available, the emperor jumped at the chance:
After all, a fearful populace is a hard-working populace. And the medicine man was one of the first to be put into chains and sent to work the fields.
By 3125 B.C., though, Warriors patrolled the dirt roads of Beijing, and the Wheat to the southeast was properly cultivated. And the earth decided to reward the Chinese people for their proper stewardship:
Qin noted the Forest and promised to put it to the Axe soon. For as the poets say, a bounty ignored is a bounty wasted. And while a few free hammers won't make or break our game, every little bit helps, right?
Seoul was founded on the Korean peninsula so as to bring its riches into the empire:
Why his people had, centuries earlier, borne Qin to Beijing's comparatively worthless site rather than this paradise was beyond him. Ah, well. He was, at least, thankful that he had not been deposited in the barren hills of Tibet.
In 2525 B.C., Mongolian Settlers appeared within shouting distance of our capital:
The Settlers, spooked by China's skilled bowmen, retreated into Mongolia, but the Archers settled into our northern Forests and made themselves comfortable. I have not seen any further signs of the great Khan's second settlement. He doubtless sent it off to the frigid tundra, where he seems most comfortable.
Explorers from far-off Greece arrived in Southeast Asia, babbling incomprehensibly and, like every other people, refusing to engage in diplomacy:
Their presence means that goody-hut-seeking in Vietnam will be a pointless endeavor (as if it wasn't already). Not that said huts wouldn't just be full of more savages.
A quick raid to kill off a Mongolian Warrior squatting on the border gave us our first look at Karakorum:
The place was a hovel, people and animals sharing tents and burning dung for heat. Genghis Khan's procession could be seen parading up and down the empty streets, drinking fermented horse milk and bawling curses at the heavens. This was no way for a leader to act, Qin thought upon hearing the report. The mad dog would have to be put down, and soon. But Archers, while fine for defending cities and plinking brutes off of hills, are difficult to wield as an offensive weapon. After consulting with sages and learning the lessons of the past, he decided to give the fabled "Machinery slingshot" a go. Puzzled wise men were told to research Mysticism and Meditation so as to figure out how to best build a Crossbow. More Settlers were trained to cement China's grip on its stretch of East Asia.
And the Karakorum Settler, brazenly striking out to claim new lands, was captured by our heroic Archer unit:
I've always been bad about building Workers, and this was a quick and easy way to grab a second one.
So, in 1850, Shanghai was founded, making the Yellow Sea a Chinese lake and bringing an end to the round:
I've gotta get Pottery up and Seoul's forests pre-chopped before the Oracle completes. I need that Forge Engineer for the bulb! I just hope Louis or someone doesn't snatch the Wonder from me. Our defenses are also pretty thin, though our only real threat is Mongolia, and they seem to be floundering pretty bad. Seoul's Settler is bound for Pyongyang, 3N1W of Seoul, so as to work the southern Wheat and some Pigs that are grazing just out of the screenshot.
Here's a look at our Tech Picture:
Obviously, the plan is Wheel-Pottery-Iron Working, then I'll grab some badly needed backfill techs, like Animal Husbandry and Masonry. I think I'm in good shape. The game is honestly playing more "normally" than I'd expected. I'm surprised that Frederick is the only casualty thus far.
Here's a look at the save for those of you who are interested:
r_rolo1
King of myself
You need more workers 
I haven't seen the save , but why are you losing time improving a wheat out of all the current BFC? Are you planning to settle north and you're pre-improving ?
Anyway, I baffled for actually seeing france killing Germany. A human will do it easily ( like a human with china can easily kill mongolia with the starting warrior in the slower speeds ), but I was not expecting to see the AI to keep their act together
I haven't seen the save , but why are you losing time improving a wheat out of all the current BFC? Are you planning to settle north and you're pre-improving ?
Anyway, I baffled for actually seeing france killing Germany. A human will do it easily ( like a human with china can easily kill mongolia with the starting warrior in the slower speeds ), but I was not expecting to see the AI to keep their act together
dalamb
Deity
Maybe it's an effect of the "really always war" mod? France and Germany were at war as soon as they met, which might have prioritized the attack on Berlin.Anyway, I baffled for actually seeing france killing Germany. A human will do it easily ... but I was not expecting to see the AI to keep their act together
shyuhe
Deity
France starts with a warrior and Germany does not. I imagine the initial warrior did poor Fred in. I wonder who's going to claim that luxurious land though?
AW means no tech trading, so you can't neglect your economic techs.
AW means no tech trading, so you can't neglect your economic techs.
Archredbeard
Warlord
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2009
- Messages
- 132
Very entertaining readup so far.
Just a thought, are you by any means gunning for GLH ?
As China and on this starting spot, it is a real killer with all the pacifics to net foreign trades, since you cant get any normal foreign trades
If the GW isnt build yet, that is another very good one, else you get endless barbs
Cant wait for next episode of Qin´s life
Just a thought, are you by any means gunning for GLH ?
As China and on this starting spot, it is a real killer with all the pacifics to net foreign trades, since you cant get any normal foreign trades
If the GW isnt build yet, that is another very good one, else you get endless barbs
Cant wait for next episode of Qin´s life
The Oz-Man
Enter: The VAIKE!
Nice job nabbing that Settler! You've basically condemned the Khan to languishing in obscurity until you can wipe him out (sooner rather than later) assuming you beat him to metals (SPOILER ALERT: you will beat Khan to metals). Get him out of the way and maybe eat Tokugawa if you have the chance.
I worry you might get beaten to Southeast Asia. Assuming Asoka isn't getting his lunch eaten by Cyrus (which is a real possibility--Immortal rushes in the early game here could be enormous), he's going to expand that way, tech well, and possibly be a real monster. It's dangerous, but the sooner you've established a border with him on your terms, the sooner you can keep an eye on him.
As for the players on the rest of the map? I dunno. Whoever gets Germany is going to be huge, and it's wide open to Caesar or Louis or Catherine. Isabella has early metals and could be a force if Louis gets beaten to Germany and she hits him before he gets IW. Mansa's likely doomed (DOOOOOOOOOMED) due to his crappy start, and Elizabeth probably won't expand much beyond her island, meaning she'll be teching well but ultimately irrelevant (as usual on this map). I think with Khan failing to check their expansion, Cathy and Cyrus are going to be real monsters, which may not be a bad thing; as long as their guns are pointed at each other, you can strike from the East with impunity. In fact, I'm going to call it now: Cyrus is going to be a beast on this map, and he and Caesar will likely be your main rivals (it's the reverse of the Persia game!).
Tech path sounds good. Khill Khan khwickly, establish a presence in Southeast Asia, and hope everyone else kills everyone else while you hide behind the Himalayas and the Gobi building a monster robot crossbow army.
I worry you might get beaten to Southeast Asia. Assuming Asoka isn't getting his lunch eaten by Cyrus (which is a real possibility--Immortal rushes in the early game here could be enormous), he's going to expand that way, tech well, and possibly be a real monster. It's dangerous, but the sooner you've established a border with him on your terms, the sooner you can keep an eye on him.
As for the players on the rest of the map? I dunno. Whoever gets Germany is going to be huge, and it's wide open to Caesar or Louis or Catherine. Isabella has early metals and could be a force if Louis gets beaten to Germany and she hits him before he gets IW. Mansa's likely doomed (DOOOOOOOOOMED) due to his crappy start, and Elizabeth probably won't expand much beyond her island, meaning she'll be teching well but ultimately irrelevant (as usual on this map). I think with Khan failing to check their expansion, Cathy and Cyrus are going to be real monsters, which may not be a bad thing; as long as their guns are pointed at each other, you can strike from the East with impunity. In fact, I'm going to call it now: Cyrus is going to be a beast on this map, and he and Caesar will likely be your main rivals (it's the reverse of the Persia game!).
Tech path sounds good. Khill Khan khwickly, establish a presence in Southeast Asia, and hope everyone else kills everyone else while you hide behind the Himalayas and the Gobi building a monster robot crossbow army.
strijder20
Wallowing in irony
And I'm baffled that there is a casualty thus far.
Don't the AI just go archer-spam when they are surrounded by 'enemies'?
Oh yes, and gratz on 888 posts
WelshGandalf
King
- Joined
- Sep 6, 2010
- Messages
- 743
Why does Germany not start with a warrior but France does?
The Mongols are so backwards. They love building military units at the best of times - they must be on overdrive with AW on. I mean, a size 1 cap on turn 75, c'mon...
Also I don't see why some people were worried about Japan. I thought they were mostly irrelevant on this map, most likely to just camp out on their island and hurl abuse at others.
The Mongols are so backwards. They love building military units at the best of times - they must be on overdrive with AW on. I mean, a size 1 cap on turn 75, c'mon...
Also I don't see why some people were worried about Japan. I thought they were mostly irrelevant on this map, most likely to just camp out on their island and hurl abuse at others.
And I'm baffled that there is a casualty thus far.
Don't the AI just go archer-spam when they are surrounded by 'enemies'?
Oh yes, and gratz on 888 posts
The casualty was on turn 4. I think we can safely say that was a warrior rush, and poor Bismarck had only a scout to defend with.
Disagree with the idea of establishing a border with Asoka early. I'd try to avoid Asoka at least until I had dealt with the Mongols and had Cho-ko-nu - let Asoka get the settlers and found the cities, then you take them away from him later.
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