King of the World #6: Huayna Capac

I was playing a shadow of this as well over the weekend, though on Prince difficulty. I can definetly see how far behind I was in tech when the Old World people came knocking, but through turtling and focusing on my economy/tech, I've gotten half of my spaceship built, with only the Roman's having the apollo program done besides myself. Slow start, big finish, especially with all the amazing cottage/watermillable land.
 
The game still hasn't really started yet :)

The first turn into the new round, any hopes of slingshotting went down in flames:

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All this while, Puerto Aisen pumped out Archers who fogbusted on the Cape to the south and in the jungles to the north as the people of Santiago worked on a Terrace and Workers from Lima feverishly built a road along the Pacific coast.

In 1250 B.C., Incan sailors met the savages to the north, who worshipped dark gods and spoke of human sacrifices:

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Of note is the fact that, despite the fact that Roosevelt is Hindu, too, religion still hasn't spread to our lands as of 40 A.D.! :mad: Helloooo! Willing convert here!

With the advent of Iron Working, we came to a crossroads:

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I decided to go with Mathematics, both to take advantage of what little chopping we could do, and to open up Currency and, later, Code of Laws. Without any religious techs beyond Mysticism so far, and with our Economy headed for a crash, I figured that this would be the safest route. With Alphabet, all I'd likely get would be Meditation and Polytheism, neither of which is terribly useful at this juncture.

In 700 B.C., I founded Sao Paolo:

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This city went from early settlement to cottaged metropolis over the course of this round. It's going to be one of our power cities for a long, long time.

25 years later, we finally made our first whip of the game!

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Happiness is just such an issue that I hesitate to push the button. I'm a wuss.

Here's a look at the first real wave of hordes:

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Sao Paolo made a great midround Barbarian chokepoint. Our southern cities are thankfully no longer "frontier."

Then we had a slave revolt in Santiago:

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It's times like these that I wonder whether Slavery was even worth it.

In 40 A.D., I decided to call it a round.

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As you can see, I founded La Paz purely as a +1 :). It's our new Barbarian magnet, along with the fogbusters up north.

Sao Paolo, our first real Cottage farm, is going to switch from a Plains Cottage to a Grasslands cottage in the northwest as soon as the Workers finish it. That should at least stop the starvation. I hesitate to whip the Axeman, since working those cottages is, right now, more important to me than one more rookie unit.

Here's a look at the Domestic Advisor:

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Maybe that's too many Settlers for now. *shrug*

So, with Currency giving us some trade routes, our economy is surviving. Not thriving, but surviving. We still don't have religion, which is upsetting, both from Diplomatic and Happiness standpoints.

Am I settling too quickly? Too slowly? I don't want Monty or (gasp!) Europeans filling up the continent, but at the same time, I'm already dangerously close to crashing the economy. I figure the next city should be to claim the Gems on the east coast. That'll raise our Happy cap to improve all our cities. Then again, I also want to get the River Jungle city founded sooner rather than later, since that's a long-term project, and the city across the Andes from the Corn and Dye north of Lima. I'm in constant fear of the Aztecs grabbing that spot.

Here's the save:
 
You seem to be doing well enough. I think the objective is to settle as many cities as possible, then get the economy up and running. However, you have done the easy bit :), now you have to chop a bunch of cities out of the jungle.

As for Monty, he has something more important to do than settling South America and he goes by the name of Roosevelt. In most of the world map games they have spent a long time at war and in the last game Monty actually managed to eliminate America.
 
Am I settling too quickly? Too slowly? I don't want Monty or (gasp!) Europeans filling up the continent, but at the same time, I'm already dangerously close to crashing the economy.

Expand faster! Cities are the best fogbusters! I don't think you're at risk of crashing the economy at all. You'll get CoL pretty soon, and you're financial with tons of rivers. Your production capabilities (and thus your maximum expansion rate) will lag your commerce capabilities for quite some time.
 
Just be sure to close of the coast before you're halfway into the second millennium AD.
 
I agree, you won't have to worry about Monty for a loong time, and the Europeans don't come knocking until what, ~1300-1400 AD on average? So you still have a good 1200 years to settle SA. Also, you should settle the town near the Iron pretty soon, it has a good defensible location right behind that river as well as its a great production city to help against the onslaught.
 
I was playing a shadow of this as well over the weekend, though on Prince difficulty. I can definetly see how far behind I was in tech when the Old World people came knocking, but through turtling and focusing on my economy/tech, I've gotten half of my spaceship built, with only the Roman's having the apollo program done besides myself. Slow start, big finish, especially with all the amazing cottage/watermillable land.

Rome managed to do well! :goodjob: A surprise to me.

Related to Neal's round - I don't think you should have founded La Paz. There are better sites than that city (jumgle/peaks) and there are also gems to the east. Settling on the coast BEFORE land is also better on this certain map since the AI's go for the coast first.

You should settle ONLY COASTAL cities from now on to secure your border.
 
I'm already dangerously close to crashing the economy.
You're not close at all. I suggest you look more carefully at what your economy needs to do for you right now. You can estimate the cost of your next cities from the information you have now.

I agree with Navy and Green or Grey, but not Yellow. The resources and the blocking are more important than the long term growth.

You could tighten up your micromanagement. Examples: extra food in Lima, Scout doing nothing and consuming upkeep, Axeman in Puerto Aisen doing nothing, unhappy in Santiago and San Paolo, chop farming an unworked tile in San Paolo.

I'd research MC before COL.
 
I'd research MC before COL.
I'd detour to HR personally. All the happy you could possibly want, and if you pillage your copper tile, you can build warriors as cheap MPs. True, you lose some production in one city, but the :hammers: you'll save empire-wide will be worth it.
 
I agree with Navy and Green or Grey, but not Yellow. The resources and the blocking are more important than the long term growth.

You could tighten up your micromanagement. Examples: extra food in Lima, Scout doing nothing and consuming upkeep, Axeman in Puerto Aisen doing nothing, unhappy in Santiago and San Paolo, chop farming an unworked tile in San Paolo.

I'd research MC before COL.

Regarding blocking, I'm actually thinking about rushing Cyan. An utterly useless city for a long time, but I can almost completely control entry into the continent with that. I'm probably just being paranoid.

The useless Scout was actually guarding the couple of "dark" squares along the Pacific corridor. I've had Axemen show up there before when my capital was guarded only by a lone Quecha. Not much fun, that. The borders popped two turns ago, so that Scout literally just outlived his usefulness. He's on the next boat to the mainland.

Regarding the chop farming and all that, there's not a lot of unimproved tiles being worked right now. Unlike the Izzy game, I have a massive force of Workers, but until I begin another wave of expansion, there's not a lot for them to do (except in La Paz, but they're under constant attack by natives, so any improvements would last a turn and a half).

Any suggestions on getting religion?
 
I think you should try to use those 2 settler for the light purp near the iron and the coastal city next to it.
 
I was playing a shadow of this as well over the weekend, though on Prince difficulty. I can definetly see how far behind I was in tech when the Old World people came knocking, but through turtling and focusing on my economy/tech, I've gotten half of my spaceship built, with only the Roman's having the apollo program done besides myself. Slow start, big finish, especially with all the amazing cottage/watermillable land.

I played one myself too, also on prince. Won by space in 1965. The only one who was close was Louis, who had destroyed both the english and the spanish before I even had met him. His third culture-city had around 50k culture when I won so it wasnt really close. Surprisingly the other big dog in Europe was Alexander(not counting Cathy who almost had twice my score), first time ive seen him stand up for the competition really. Btw Louis DOWed me when my spaceship was 4 turns from reaching its goal, he couldnt even get one of my cities before I won. :lol:

Neal: Even if your playing at one level higher than us, I dont think there will be much trouble to win. I played a really horrible game diplomacy-wise and I still won with relatively ease. Before late 1800 I had almost no units exept archers and the only one who tried to take me down was Gengis, who had an army even more pathetic than my own.

And dont worry about the economy, you can settle the entire SA without running into much problems. It will pay off really fast when the cottages are up and running.
 
I usually expand to 30%. As of now, you're running a surplus at 50%. I'd say place two more cities, wait about 20-40 turns for your cottages to develop and CoL to be researched, and start expanding into the Amazon. You should have a much larger workforce by the time you expand to Brazil, though. Those jungles will be a bit of a problem without it.

Edit: Part of me just wants you to stop expanding until Europe comes a-knocking. >_>
 
Expand faster!
First, this, you are miles away from crashing your eco.

Second, La Paz was indeed not optimal, your next cities should be for the iron, gold, gems.

Third: While you settle those sites, create a mobile "jungle clearing" unit consisting of several workers and enough military to protect it. This unit should clear some of the jungle before you actually settle the city, otherwise it won't be productive for a long time just costing you maintenance.
And don't make plain-farms!
 
Regarding the chop farming...

This is a minute point, but I'm not sure you understood what I was trying to say about the chop farm. The context was that I thought you could improve your micro. I was trying to say you were building a farm directly over a forest tile, instead of chopping first and farming second. If you wanted the hammer from the forest tile until the farm was complete that would be one thing, but you weren't working it and so you didn't appear to want the hammer. So unless you wanted to delay the Axeman you were building in that city, which I didn't think was the case, you might have gotten it sooner by chopping first. I say "might" because I didn't look at the exact arithmetic of hammers, turns and whipping there.
 
I think the game would be better if the andes were passable, but pre-renaissance units couldn't cross desert/jungle. Both for realism and playability. Another addition I'ld like would be more african civs (Zara&Zulu), scrapping Roosevelt and adding Pacal and Sitting Bull.

Contact between the earafricasian civs is too early for my liking, and the americas are lagging behind too much: the conquistadors successes were more lucky circumstance: the aztecs thinking the spanish guy was the incarnation of a god (? spelling) and the inca's just came out of a massive civil was. Both empires has large standing armies and could have withstood the conquest.

The native americans never stood a chance for one reason- disease. It's been estimated that over 90% of the new world's population was wiped out by old world diseases. Small pox alone killed about a 4th of the aztec population and most of their army in just a few years, right after cortes arrival. The aztecs actually kicked him out, outnumbering cortes army but quite a bit, but then they all died to smallpox and cortes came back and took their capital.

Huayna Capac actually died to smallpox along with some 200,000 other incans.

And tbh, those numbers aren't even that astonishingly high when you consider how many people small pox killed in the old world as well. Estimates say about 400,000 europeans died to small pox every year during the 18th century. Pretty frickin nuts, also it blows my mind that the most devestating disease every was been eliminated by modern medicine known as vaccine. Amazing, truly one of the top 5 advances ever.

(got most this info off wikipedia if you care to look it up)
 
Rome managed to do well! :goodjob: A surprise to me.

Related to Neal's round - I don't think you should have founded La Paz. There are better sites than that city (jumgle/peaks) and there are also gems to the east. Settling on the coast BEFORE land is also better on this certain map since the AI's go for the coast first.

You should settle ONLY COASTAL cities from now on to secure your border.

Oh, they weren't doing all that good, France was by far in the lead, they just were warmongering too much to build the apollo program. Louis was even able to diplomaticly destroy the spanish through making Isy give her only city (her capital and the buddist holy city) to him throught he United Nations. I thought it was funny.. I was in the mean time building my spaceship when the French attacked me, although all he hit me with was a stack of naval units with a few fighters. Nothing disastrous.

Now, back to Neal's game.. I agree, La Pas was founded too early, even if the silver is a nice addition. However, its not that well defended from barbs unlike the city by the Iron, so it doesn't make a great barb magnet. And don't worry about your economy until you reach ~20% tech rate imo. You'll be far behind in the tech race, but have probably the 2nd largest empire in the game, following Monty. This may mean a slow start, but once you get going you'll be a powerhouse.
 
I'm gonna try to have the next round played by Monday... on my new computer! Finally, the Industrial and Modern Ages will be genuinely playable on Earth! No more making a sandwich between turns!
 
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