King of the World #6: Huayna Capac

System Software & Drivers:
Operating System: Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate (32-bit)

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Uh oh...

Anyhow, as regards the game, I think you're still settling too slowly, Neal. And you probably want just a few more workers. Also, regarding tile improvement: the central amazon cities are monsters once they're up and running, but none have any food resources (well, I suppose you founded Bogota to get the western corn), so they are very slow to get off the ground. Case in point: La Paz -- founded in the previous round, but it's still only size two. I think the best approach is to farm several tiles for each city, to accelerate early growth. If you've only got 2 food surplus (i.e. all cottages), getting a city up to speed will take until the game ends.

BTW, I'm basing these comments partly on the fact that I've played a few shadow games of this (monarch, vanilla), with different approaches. The south-first strategy for settling the eastern part of the continent played out much better than the north-first one. In the current game, I have a space race win in sights, and most of the amazon improved with state property watermills. With a golden age these are 3f3h5c tiles (3f4h5c with a levee)!

Yeah I second that about leading off with a few farms. I did a "shadow" of this as well on Noble and I just felt like I was teching way too slow - mostly because those powerhouse Amazon cities took a long time to setup (and the time between rounds is annoying too.) I maintained a decently healthy tech standing but never pulled away.

We're behind, but not as much as I'd've thought.

I started by buying the ability to build some Monasteries:



We had to spread Hinduism for Culture, Happiness, and (eventually) the Organized Religion bonus.

Eventually, I decided that waiting for Culture wasn't a great idea, especially in Panama:



All of our Cultureless cities (including Panama) ran an Artist for the first border pop. The switch to OR also allowed Rio to start pumping out Missionaries. I later switched back to Slavery.

In 820, we learned not to prop up shoddy workmanship with government subsidies:



Oh, who am I kidding? I need that Silver. I paid'em off. Again.

40 years later, something terrifying happened:



Usually, the Aztecs' destroying America is too little, too late. He got it done well before 1000 A.D. in this game. Monty is going to be a beast. Thank Vishnu he's Friendly.

Paramaribo was founded to bust the last of the Amazonian fog:



I'm gonna miss having Barbarians to kick around. If all goes according to plan, I think I've fought my last battle.

The Apostolic Palace was built in 970:



Apparently Judaism is the dominant religion this game.

In 1040, the random Event generator kicked sand in my face. Again:



A chopped Library and Courthouse. In a Cottage City. *sigh* That's gonna take forever and a day to replace.

I also finally founded my future capitol, and sent a Great Scientist there to build an Academy:



Short term? Border pops. Long term? Once that place gets cottaged up, it's gonna be a beast. As you can see, it's building a Courthouse. Its next build will be a palace.

In 1260, I learned that my impossible dream of a Liberalism beeline was, in fact, impossible:



I'm not that far back, though! I already have Education at this point!

In 1330, we finally made contact with Eurasia:



The annoyed Frederick showed up on the same round. So I decided to call things here.

My new Espionage allocation:



A look at our Domestic Advisor:



And Science:



We're a couple of turns from Printing Press! And nobody else seems to have it! Yay!

Here's the world as we know it:



As you can see, Monty is a terrifying juggernaught. We might end up having to wrestle him later on.

So... Ideas? Obviously, we need to trade around Printing Press to catch back up in the race. At this point, do we turtle for Space? I assume it's too late for Culture, and we don't have the military to try for Domination or Conquest.

At this point, with the continent settled, I think I'm ready for some micromanagement tips. I would also like some big picture suggestions. What would you all like to see?

A few things:

You have health problems in some bigger cities, and they are going to get worse. Compass and harbors help for the coastal cities (you have all 3 seafoods) -- but the bigger deal is astronomy and resource trading with the old world -- you can supply lots of corn, hopefully picking up the other 2 cereals for +4 everywhere.

And I'll reiterate the point about farms: getting Manaus up and running is less about working cottages right now than it is about getting population right now. Granaries should come before courthouses -- food is precious in these starter cities with no food resources and you don't want to be wasting half of it.

Also, juggernaut that Monty is, you don't want him attacking you. Stay friendly with him, if at all possible -- a war in the near future could be devastating. You are not Monty's worst enemy. But someone from the old world will be, and you want to avoid trading with this person -- the diplomatic demerit could knock you into war.

Why build a courthouse in a future capital as first build??? Also, a later GS could've built that academy, and this one settled or academized elsewhere.

Rio Gallegos could be Ushuaia, the worlds southernmost settlement, might be a little off but its much more known than rio gallegos at least here in Argentina

I agree, granaries should be the first build of pretty much every city. Ever. (with the only common exception being monuments early on)

Your ability to catch up to the AI and dominate the game will rely solely on you being able to get this monster cottage powerhouses up and running sooner rather than later, emancipation is a pretty high priority. Doing worry too much about military yet, in the industrial era universial sufferage and levees and solve your production problems, and then you'll be able to choose to launch into space peacefully or flex some military muscle.

Has Monte met any other leaders yet?

Things seem to be going well, and can only get better as your cities mature. I assume we are going to Space. I wouldn't worry about being behind at the moment, there is a long time to catch up.

Hopefully you will get some nice techs with PP, but ideally you would have more trading partners. Its a difficult question when to trade away a monopoly tech.

I have to reiterate Ultimocrat, trade with the Old World is vital. IIRC, corn is only available in the Americas and you want to do the trades with the rest of the world, not Monty. Also the value of your trade routes, especially with Harbours and Customs Houses, will be immense. I would recommend you go Compass, Optics and Astronomy once PP has finished, and remember to get those caravels into the water ASAP. You need as many contacts as possible to decrease the cost of techs.

I am not sure a courthouse is needed in the city that will be the new capital. A Granary would be better.

I agree Monty will be looking your way soon, but the AI is still poor at invasions. A few ships should sink any invasion force before they cause problems. I see no need to go invading NA, unless you want to of course

Now this one is in the bag, who do you want to play next

Why move the palace to Manaus? Lima is already almost in the center of your empire, so distance cost will not change very much. And after some turns of emancipation, free speech will get you more commerce then burocracy.
20 riverside towns = 140 commerce, burocracy gives you +70 commerce
35 towns with free speech are also +70 commerce, but I think you will have a lot more towns by then.

With academy in the new captial it needs 50 towns, but only if you have all other science multiplier there also. To get them, you will need a few watermills there for production and farms for growth, so its more a city with 10 to 15 cottages, so its a 100 commerce city and we are back at the ~35 full grown towns to have more science with free speech.
The only reason to stay in burocracy would be a mega-production city with lots of watermills, but then, why an academy?

And you should consider, if you want to go state property in the future. If yes, build the farms for your amazon cities in places where you can make a watermill later, it would be a waste to change a already grown cottage with a watermill and a farm with a new cottage.

Next time, please save a future GS for a future academy since the academy in Manus will be useless for a while.

I would advise you not trade with the old world civs until you meet Hatshepsut, Elizabeth, Cyrus, etc (the ones that you KNOW will likely be dominating). You want to know the diplomatic situation first. Of course, for civs like Genghis Khan and especially Isabella you don't have to wait until you contact them since they're useless on this map anyway.

Regarding the Courthouse in Manaus: ... I'm losing it. I somehow got it lodged in my head that a Courthouse was a prerequisite for building the Palace. You all are right. I will change the build immediately.

Regarding the slow growth of Manaus: You're right. I've actually got Workers building a few Farms as kickstart tiles. The Terrace will be vital.

Regarding Health: I keep neglecting Compass. Harbors would be useful. Is Astronomy really worth researching, though? I mean, Europe will have it soon enough, no?

Regarding Monty: He has met Frederick and Qin as well. He's pleased with the atheistic Chinese and Furious towards the Jewish Germans. So, yeah... I think our Open Borders with Germany will be short-lived.

Neal said:

Regarding Health: I keep neglecting Compass. Harbors would be useful. Is Astronomy really worth researching, though? I mean, Europe will have it soon enough, no?

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Don't undervalue Astronomy in a situation like this. If you think you'll be able to trade for it quickly that's fine but don't put it off. Even without The Great Lighthouse transcontinental trade routes are huge, and you don't want the AI benefitting from those without you. Plus the observatories are nice...

How do you want to trade for astronomy? I doubt that's so easy.

And: Don't OB with an european civ that has astro while you don't; only they get the tasty trade routes...

Astro as a next target tech is a good idea.

Neal said:

Regarding Health: I keep neglecting Compass. Harbors would be useful. Is Astronomy really worth researching, though? I mean, Europe will have it soon enough, no?

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If my understanding is correct, and if it isn't somebody will correct me quickly , you can trade resources if only the AI has Astronomy, but for intercontinental trade routes you need to know Astronomy.

In the late game with the relevant improvements you can easily have 4 or 5 trade routes worth 10 commerce each, in every city, that's not to be sniffed at . In the short term the commerce is not so much but can still add up.

You can probably trade for Compass and Optics, but as Astronomy is more expensive you will probably need to put a few turns research into it before an AI will trade it.

One of the trading partners (resources) needs to know astro.

Only the civ gets overseas trade routes that knows astro itself. Meaning you're basically gifting an AI commerce if they know astro but you don't.

Neal said:

Regarding the Courthouse in Manaus: ... I'm losing it. I somehow got it lodged in my head that a Courthouse was a prerequisite for building the Palace. You all are right. I will change the build immediately.

Regarding the slow growth of Manaus: You're right. I've actually got Workers building a few Farms as kickstart tiles. The Terrace will be vital.

Regarding Health: I keep neglecting Compass. Harbors would be useful. Is Astronomy really worth researching, though? I mean, Europe will have it soon enough, no?

Regarding Monty: He has met Frederick and Qin as well. He's pleased with the atheistic Chinese and Furious towards the Jewish Germans. So, yeah... I think our Open Borders with Germany will be short-lived.

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Actually I thought a courthouse was needed for the palace...never mind. I would have suggested granary -> courthouse but you can go granary -> palace.

I would micromanage some pop growth. The more pop you have, the more cottage you can work, the more cottage you work, the more they mature and make you more money. Astro is very important to start being a tech trade fiend. An academy in a 1-pop city?!!? You should have just bulbed something along the liberalism path. Change the courthouse to a granary (as mentioned above) there also. Meet people. The more you meet, the more you can learn the diplo situation among the old world leaders. Don't open borders till you've met at least 5 and feel like you know which way the wind is blowing over there.

I'm kind of disgusted about the way you're developing Amazonia.....

You have riverside grassland, you're running slavery/caste and you're working mainly cottages . That is a lesson I learned for a while: It is far better to work farms and grow pop/whip infrastructure and then work cottages. Look at Manaus: currently planning a courthouse that will take for ever and a little later..... if you had betted in farms you would had lost some coins but you would had been at pop 4 or 5 now and would be able to whip a terrace or a library ( or to work the mines ) and overflow to the palace you're planning there..... you would have a building, some hammers in the bank by the price of a few coins.... IMHO it is worth it.

I also agree that the academy was a little and probably costed you the lib race. Well, it is done... but a academy in a city without a library is a

The path to go now? IMHO you need Astro and you should not count to get it by trade ( probably the prereqs, but not Astro ) and after that you have 2 targets: biology and steam power ( along with democracy, OFC .... )

I agree with Rolo. More farms, more whipping of ze important structures and try to get those religions spread ASAP so that organised religion can work its magic for you. You should be unbeatable with granaries, courthouses, markets, groceries and forges .. and that really shouldn't take THAT long to get up in those cities!

After that, revert to a cottage economy. Cottages grow fast enough with emancipation IMO.