Gotm21-Melee - PREDATOR Naval Movement

cracker · Jun 25, 2003

This feature is only active in the Predator Class game for the Gotm21-Mediterranean Melee.

The OPEN class and CONQUEST class games do not include this feature.

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This thread is to support release and sharing of pregame test files to help in the discussion of strategic impacts of the changes to naval movement rates in the Predator class game for this particular game only.

Movement cost for "Coast" has been increased to 3 movement points per tile
Movement cost for "Sea" has been increased to 2 movement points per tile
Movement cost for "Ocean" is unchanged at 1 movement point per tile
All movement point rates for standard naval units are DOUBLED

This has the effect of slowing movement for close in coastal activity and exploration while facilitating mad dashes along established trade routes.

The average movement rate of galleys is unchanged except in narrow confined spaces or large expanses of open ocean.

Mark Cutt · Jun 25, 2003

Will Predator class GOTM21 be available also to plain Civ3 player?

cracker · Jun 25, 2003

All three classes will be available in both Civ3v1.29 and in PTWv1.14/v1.21.

Mark Cutt · Jun 25, 2003

Great news! Thanks

Qitai · Jun 25, 2003

Effects I can foresee

- The great lighthouse value diminished
- Impact on naval movement may actually make it faster using "jump routes" through ocean on normal coast. E.g. if I am on the coast, I could make 4 moves using sea-ocean-sea-coastal.
- movement is slowed down ONLY on PURE coastal terrian i.e. Coastal - Coastal moves
- Thus in general, movement seems to be equal or faster instead of slower.

Can't think of anything else.

And well if this is only for predator, does that mean GOTM21 is going to have some inland coast terrian? Just doing some speculation when I look at this.

Yndy · Jun 25, 2003

Originally posted by Qitai
Effects I can foresee

- The great lighthouse value diminished
- Impact on naval movement may actually make it faster using "jump routes" through ocean on normal coast. E.g. if I am on the coast, I could make 4 moves using sea-ocean-sea-coastal.
- movement is slowed down ONLY on PURE coastal terrian i.e. Coastal - Coastal moves
- Thus in general, movement seems to be equal or faster instead of slower.

- I think that the Great Lighthouse value is increased largely. You can start on the sea and move Edit: 7 tiles with a galley ( Edit: 6 on ocean, last on sea) (are the bonuses doubled as well?).
- What's affected is the exiting of a city which guarantees you'll have only one move left. It's like the ship needs some time to catch the right wind and speed up.

Like I said in the wild guess thread. I imagine the seafaring will play an important role.

Edit: My calculus skills need some work

TriviAl · Jun 25, 2003

Reckon the value of the lighthouse will actually be increased. With it you could safely leave your galley in a sea square, so could use all your move in ocean squares and then use the final point to dive for a sea square... assuming it still increases your move by 1 point then a galley could travel 7 squares in a turn, albeit not getting near the coast...

Still, I feel the main benefit of the lighthouse is to set up trade routes over sea squares... has really helped in quite a few games.

Post navigation this could make invasions somewhat less painful. I like this idea a lot!

Will the AIs be using the same system?

Hurricane · Jun 25, 2003

Well, one thing is for sure. You won't need any suicide galleys in this game.

Qitai · Jun 25, 2003

Well, I am puzzled by Yndy and Trivial's comment on lighthouse. Adding 1 movement to 3 seems a far greater value than adding 1 to 6 (in percentage terms at least). And both seems to assume the seventh square is a sea tile??!! Is there something I do not know?

mudfoot · Jun 25, 2003

Those coastal penalties will make it really hard for the AI to land any ships on our beaches without being spotted. Same goes for the human player ofcourse, but the AI can see us coming anyway.
The bombard and get out of artillary range is also no longer possible. I thing I like this!

Whether these adjustements are going to speed up or slow down ship travel will depend a lot on the kind of map where going to get. Damn, now I'm even more curious! And I still have to wait 5 days before I can get my hands on this game! :aargh:

mudfoot

Yndy · Jun 25, 2003

Originally posted by Qitai
Well, I am puzzled by Yndy and Trivial's comment on lighthouse. Adding 1 movement to 3 seems a far greater value than adding 1 to 6 (in percentage terms at least). And both seems to assume the seventh square is a sea tile??!! Is there something I do not know?

The lighthouse gives one more movement point and allows you to end the turn in a sea tile (before astronomy). So, if you start in a sea tile you can move six tiles through ocean and use your last movement to come back to safety on a sea tile. The real benefit of the lighthouse in this case is not the extra movement but the ability to start and end the turn on a sea tile.

TriviAl · Jun 25, 2003

Qitai
I agree that the extra move is less useful, but the ability to end turn safely in a sea square is made quite a lot more valuable... if an ocean is big enough then you could skirt the edges of it and get a full 7 square move, still ending up in a sea square... That is what I was trying to get at...

I think the most underrated aspect of the lighthouse is the ability to trade resources over sea squares. With the long break between Map Making and Astronomy, this can make a really decisive difference in a continents/arcipelago map laid out in the 'right' way.

edit: Brain no workee.

RufRydyr · Jun 25, 2003

Now I'm dying to know what level the game will be on and what the other changes for Predator class will be since I'm planning to be one. Edit: Never mind. Found out it's Monarch in the Announcement page that was listed in the next thread.

Qitai · Jun 25, 2003

Yes, I agree with the point on the sea tile movement. From that perspective, it does seems to be better since sea tile needs 2 movement now.

Txurce · Jun 25, 2003

Presumably the AI will make use of the same movement bonuses as the human player. That said, the human player probably has the advantage here, due to being human, and therefore willing to consider suicide runs. From that perspective, the adjusted vessel movement rates add a complicating factor to the game, but may actually give the Predator player an advantage over the Open and Conquest player.

DaviddesJ · Jun 25, 2003

I agree with Txurce: the naval movement changes don't seem like a disadvantage to the human player. If anything, they seem like an advantage, because it's easier for us to adapt to them.

pterrok · Jun 25, 2003

Remember that ALL classes play on the same map!

So what this means is that there will NOT be very much ocean at all--it'll all be Sea. Or else the coast will extend out 3 or 4 or 5 tiles so that by the time you get past it the ocean bonus just offsets the slower coast pace when the total crossing time is compared to Open or Conquest games.

If the map is NOT set up this way, the Predators will be able to launch invasions so much quicker than the other two classes that it would be completely unbalancing! (And what're the odds of Cracker having forgotten that? But there MAY exist a 'quick' route or two that he's overlooked somewhere and it would be up to the intrepid navigators to find them!)

Can anyone say with certainty what will happen if you have the Lighthouse? A galley would have 7 movement points and could move 2 coast squares for 6 of them. Can it enter the third coast tile since it's movement allowance is not used up?

Renata · Jun 25, 2003

Depends. With the AI map foreknowledge, they may be able to take advantage of long crossings before the human player can find them, and therefore beat the human to contacts, new islands, etc.

Hard to say, really, guess I'll just have to wait and see.

But I think I will make a grab for the great lighthouse this game. The last time I tried seriously was GOTM 17, and I missed out on it. Also the last time I even tried for any ancient age wonder was GOTM 18 (pyramids) --- might be time to dust off those skills again.

Renata

Renata · Jun 25, 2003

@ pterrok: Some good points; I hadn't though of that. To your question, yes I believe you'd still get that third move. Same as a warrior moving twice on road, then stepping off onto a mountain with the last 1/3 movement point.

Renata

TriviAl · Jun 25, 2003

pterrock
1 move point would let you move into a coast square... it works the same was as it does for ground units: same as a cavalry with 1 move left going onto a mountain...

Gotm21-Melee - PREDATOR Naval Movement

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