Yeah, it's a shame. I was trying to roll a good Lakes map the other day, as it's pretty much a GP map that wraps, but it can feature jungles and small seas. Finding enough spots to settle is often a problem though, as on Great Plains you can usually back-settle the mountain/hill area west of your spawn at least, but Lakes wraps so there's more competition for city spots. Still, my fastest Prince SV was on Lakes, as were my best Deity DomV and Sacred Sites CV. I'm quite certain the map has a ton of potential, for both peaceful and warlike <T190 SV.
Fastest Science Victory
- Thread starter Lightning5555
- Start date
IronfighterXXX
Work Hard - Play Hard
I suggest such settings for rolling maps: 3 billions years world age (more hills, mountains)
and high sea level (to easier worker stealing, faster meet CSs, 'compress' resources) -
it can lead to problem with finding four good spots for cities, but what can't be solved with IGE?
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Chieftain
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how long is it worth it to delay bulbing after you've bought research labs to get hydroplants, stock exchanges and factories all up in your cities?
Acken
Deity
Why make hydroplants ?
I usually bulb 15 to 20 turns post plastics to reach apollo and hubble then wait a little and again to finish the tree.
With freedom. You have to do it earlier with order since you have to build sone of the parts yourself.
I usually bulb 15 to 20 turns post plastics to reach apollo and hubble then wait a little and again to finish the tree.
With freedom. You have to do it earlier with order since you have to build sone of the parts yourself.
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Chieftain
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i dunno they increase production which equals more beakers when u convert to science.
yung.carl.jung
Hey Bird! I'm Morose & Lugubrious
I think it is generally more beneficial and efficient to just use your hammers for "research" and rushbuy a Hydro Plant in either the capital or the city with the most river tiles.
Having just attempted a map with no Religious CS, I'll add that our 'best possible/realistic map' is definitely going to need Religious CS. 1 faith-bought GS isn't nearly enough. 3 would be fantastic, though 2 GS + 1 GE is more realistic. I think several of the top games have a Faith wonder, not necessarily by the capital but within reach of expo.
On a positive note, I emphasized the (5) Cultural CS all game and pulled off Scholasticism (pre-Renaissance) and Mercantilism (post-Plastics) without being Poland, so that was pretty cool. If a non-Poland civ can get 24 policies slightly faster than I just did (T195), then that opens the door for Babylon or Korea science bonuses coupled with pretty much all relevant social policies, outside of a Trad-Lib strategy of course, for a T18x SV.
yung.carl.jung
Hey Bird! I'm Morose & Lugubrious
I do not really understand your point. I always convert all farms and mines to Trading Posts and of course I always work every single specialist tile available, even if just for the hammers, gold and science from secularism
But none of this stops me from working Science in all my cities 8 turns before I buy GS with faith/produce a natural GS/am about to complete Hubble/
I think this is the most efficient method to get the most out of your lategame bulbs.
Do you ever use Cultural Diplomacy? It seems to usually be worth about 10-12 happiness, which virtually converts into science if you have the growth to spend it.
My Siam game I picked that up pre-Renaissance, and totally ignored Commerce -- didn't build either Statue of Liberty or Big Ben. It turns out you can borrow a LOT of gold on Deity, and don't necessarily need the purchasing discounts every game.
Martin Alvito
Real men play SMAC
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I suggest such settings for rolling maps: 3 billions years world age (more hills, mountains)
and high sea level (to easier worker stealing, faster meet CSs, 'compress' resources) -
it can lead to problem with finding four good spots for cities, but what can't be solved with IGE?
You just blew my mind with high sea level, right there. Never thought about it that way. If you can't found four, reroll map. Always played HoF gauntlets at low sea level for elbow room given a peaceful win condition. Figured that the time cost of rerolls for space and peace on high sea level outweighed the prospective benefits of faster contacts/CS/worker theft/resource stacking. Might have been wrong, at least in a speed game rather than a score game.
There's even a significant risk (gah!) that you might ultimately have gotten me to reinstall. (gah!)
I did on the Babinski Poland map, where I completed Patronage. If not reaching it before Renaissance or playing as Poland, I'm not sure where to fit it in. I can definitely see a game where you put 3-4 in Patronage and 0-1 in Commerce being very strong. I'm finding late-game gold pretty easy lately, but having enough to rush-buy all Labs often a problem. A game with an expo strong enough to build 1-2 wonders could help ensure finishing Big Ben before Plastics, so I'm aiming for that currently.
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Chieftain
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how do i avoid the issue of running out of GS on a non-babylon civ? i've had two poland games in a row now that were on pace for a t200-210 win but had pretty low fpt (around +20 or so) due to barely missing religion and low amount of religious CS (or near impossible to ally for reasons) which lead to me being like two GS shy in the end and i just scrapped them when I came to the realization.. for clarification in those games i bought 1 GS and 1 GE for SoL cause it comes at a super annoying time when i'm building big ben and after that factory/stock exchange in cap. i guess building big ben in high prod expansion would be a fix for that and i could buy 2 GS but it probably still won't be enough.
I used to have the problem you've described above as well. The solution I found was to just found more cities. I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong with my science, but I find that 4 cities just doesn't make enough science. Nowadays, I pretty much always have at least 5 cities.
yung.carl.jung
Hey Bird! I'm Morose & Lugubrious
I wholly agree with Iamteehee. Even playing Tradition I opt for 5 cities usually. If there is no good terrain for a fifth city I annex a capitol or try to get a city in a peace deal!
Not only will more cities give you more GS, every city will also give you faith independent of your pantheon (at least Shrine and Temple, usually more) so it might make the difference between buying 2 GP or buying 3 GP lategame.
Not only will more cities give you more GS, every city will also give you faith independent of your pantheon (at least Shrine and Temple, usually more) so it might make the difference between buying 2 GP or buying 3 GP lategame.
consentient
Domination!
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Let me ask one thing of the 5-6 cities Tradition gambit. Do you do 4 city NC then settle 2 on the turn of completion, or go 5/6 city NC?
BlackWizard
King
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Yes that is usually best way
I've alternated; I believe my best game was 5-city NC.
Is there any way to increase the likelihood of spawning in the West of a Great Plains/GP Plus map? Perhaps certain opponents to avoid, whose bias gives them the mountainous region over you?
consentient
Domination!
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Yes it does
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