[Speculation] Italian States/Papal States/Venice
- Thread starter sukritact
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lp_04
Prince
Tall italy is better. Piazza is awsom.
Scaramanga
Brickhead
Venice would be good but papal or other italian states...
Even Venice is more well known as a city. In my view it was a city-state that had a trade empire rather than an actual empire.
Scaramanga
Brickhead
@Scaramanga
Yes you're right but they were really powerful. they fought against Ottomans for hundreds of years. if there will be an italian state it must be Venice.
I don't think they fought the Ottomans. That would destroy their trade. The problem with Venice is that, sure it had an empire, but its homeland was only one city because of geography.
@Scaramanga
Yes you're right but they were really powerful. they fought against Ottomans for hundreds of years. if there will be an italian state it must be Venice.
Italy fought the 1 year, 2 weeks, 5 days and took Libya and Rhodes from them.
I got a couple of things for you to Google: "Holy League" and "Venetian Arsenal". That's "Arsenal" with a captial "A".
Long story short: 1) As much as the Ottomans like trade, they like conquest just that much more. 2) When the Pope tells you to fight the Ottomans, you fight the Ottomans. 3) When the other powers around the Meiterranean clicked on their advisor icon, you can rest assured that their bearded, armored dude told them that Venice "was not to be trifled with".
EDIT--Btw, guys, "Venetian Arsenal" would make a great UA or UB.
Yeah, they did fight the Ottomans. That's the only reason the Parthenon is in ruins now and not a pretty much complete building - a Venetian shell hit it when they were besieging the Ottoman-occupied city of Athens
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Indeed. The Venetians fought with the Ottomans. It's how they lost a good portion of their extended empire. At one time Venice held Crete and Cyprus. They lost those both to the Ottomans.
Bonci
King
I'm not sure what do you mean by homeland, but Venice held a good chunk of north eastern Italy for a quite long time...
Spoiler :
Yeah XD Ottomans were using it as a gunpowder magazine
Scaramanga
Brickhead
Oops, yes they did fight each other. But they were also capable of mutual benefit.
moysturfurmer
Emperor
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You know what could be cool UA?
Trade routes w/ city states contribute corresponding Great Person Points (Culture:Great Artist::Mercantile:Great Merchant etc. Maritime and Militaristic would give Great Scientist and Engineer points respectively though)
Between Brunelleschi and Galileo and Raphael, I think it makes sense from a historical perspective, and it highlights the fact that "Italy" was initially a collection of City States.
I mean I haven't really thought it out but screw it, I'm not Firaxis.
Trade routes w/ city states contribute corresponding Great Person Points (Culture:Great Artist::Mercantile:Great Merchant etc. Maritime and Militaristic would give Great Scientist and Engineer points respectively though)
Between Brunelleschi and Galileo and Raphael, I think it makes sense from a historical perspective, and it highlights the fact that "Italy" was initially a collection of City States.
I mean I haven't really thought it out but screw it, I'm not Firaxis.
It's a great idea, and sort of ties into a UA I was working on.
Actually, this whole business about the Ottomans and the Holy League brings to mind something I've been marinating on.
In a way, I kinda hope that Italy doesn't make it into BNW, because it would make for some rockin' DLC! Not just a civ, but an entire scenario based around Renaissance Italy with a focus on BNW's new trade and culture systems. Whaddya think?
The scenario is called "Most Serene Republic". You get to play one of Italy's major maritime republics: Venice, Genoa, Ragusa, or Florence. The Ottomans, Spain, and Holy Roman Empire would be AI civ's, with varying levels of established friendship or enmity at the beginning of the scenario, allowing certain republics to have an early edge on international trade routes.
With regards to city-states, most types are downplayed. Maritime, culture, and mercantile CS's are few or non-existent. Militaristic civ's, OTOH, should be around to provide vital manpower to help out the smaller republic with a limited production base, so Hungaria and Switzerland would be represented as military CS's, with their unique elite hussars and pikemen, resepctively. Not sure what to do with Rome and the Papal States; being understandably immune to DoW, they couldn't be playable, so it's either AI civ or CS.
The scenario starts in the Middle Ages, and finishes at the Industrial Era, perhaps with Napoleon showing up with beaucoup cannons to wrap things up with a bang.
Instead of great generals, the Italians have condottieri, drawing from history's long list of distinguished condottieri. Unlike most great persons, condottieri can be purchased with gold, and have a varied pool of abilities to from which to draw (a DIY master of tactics!).
Venice would probably have the strongest naval edge courtesy of its Arsenal. Florence, OTOH, would be the smallest and least militant, but with a big advantage in generating culture and great persons. Genoa would have a strong land army couresty of its crossbowmen and be better at acquiring condottieri. Ragusa could have a bonus trade route, or some other benefit relating to its Ottoman ties, or maybe a production benefit tied to forests.
Just throwing stuff out there. Feel free to toss some ideas into the mix.
The winner of the coveted "Most Serene Republic" title is the civ that either eliminates all rival republics, or completes the most objectives (in a manner similar to the Smokey Skies scenario). Objectives include amassing the most naval power, generating the most culture & tourism, and having the most lucrative trade routes.
In a way, I kinda hope that Italy doesn't make it into BNW, because it would make for some rockin' DLC! Not just a civ, but an entire scenario based around Renaissance Italy with a focus on BNW's new trade and culture systems. Whaddya think?
The scenario is called "Most Serene Republic". You get to play one of Italy's major maritime republics: Venice, Genoa, Ragusa, or Florence. The Ottomans, Spain, and Holy Roman Empire would be AI civ's, with varying levels of established friendship or enmity at the beginning of the scenario, allowing certain republics to have an early edge on international trade routes.
With regards to city-states, most types are downplayed. Maritime, culture, and mercantile CS's are few or non-existent. Militaristic civ's, OTOH, should be around to provide vital manpower to help out the smaller republic with a limited production base, so Hungaria and Switzerland would be represented as military CS's, with their unique elite hussars and pikemen, resepctively. Not sure what to do with Rome and the Papal States; being understandably immune to DoW, they couldn't be playable, so it's either AI civ or CS.
The scenario starts in the Middle Ages, and finishes at the Industrial Era, perhaps with Napoleon showing up with beaucoup cannons to wrap things up with a bang.
Instead of great generals, the Italians have condottieri, drawing from history's long list of distinguished condottieri. Unlike most great persons, condottieri can be purchased with gold, and have a varied pool of abilities to from which to draw (a DIY master of tactics!).
Venice would probably have the strongest naval edge courtesy of its Arsenal. Florence, OTOH, would be the smallest and least militant, but with a big advantage in generating culture and great persons. Genoa would have a strong land army couresty of its crossbowmen and be better at acquiring condottieri. Ragusa could have a bonus trade route, or some other benefit relating to its Ottoman ties, or maybe a production benefit tied to forests.
Just throwing stuff out there. Feel free to toss some ideas into the mix.
The winner of the coveted "Most Serene Republic" title is the civ that either eliminates all rival republics, or completes the most objectives (in a manner similar to the Smokey Skies scenario). Objectives include amassing the most naval power, generating the most culture & tourism, and having the most lucrative trade routes.
TheMarshmallowBear
Benelovent Chieftain of the Ursu Kingdom
Send this idea to Ed, I'm sure he'll love it he loves Renaissance!
Snoopaloop
King
- Joined
- Jun 23, 2007
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- 607
Cool idea for a Renaissance Italy scenario. Also would make a sweet scenario for Expansion no.3(if/when we get one).
Could even incorporate new features into it, for example if Exp. #3 has stability or rebellions in it.
- - - - -
By the way at work I talked with an italian client (from northern Italy) and we discussed some history and I mentioned Garibaldi. He said that even as he is regarded as a hero, in north people hate the unification of Italy. He says that it's a totally different culture and backround for some southern cities like Naples, and places like Sardinia, and he feels that southern Italy drags the country down in some ways.
Of course that was his pretty strong opinioin but it was interesting to find out, didn't know about that except that north is more like industrial and south agricultural.
Could even incorporate new features into it, for example if Exp. #3 has stability or rebellions in it.
- - - - -
By the way at work I talked with an italian client (from northern Italy) and we discussed some history and I mentioned Garibaldi. He said that even as he is regarded as a hero, in north people hate the unification of Italy. He says that it's a totally different culture and backround for some southern cities like Naples, and places like Sardinia, and he feels that southern Italy drags the country down in some ways.
Of course that was his pretty strong opinioin but it was interesting to find out, didn't know about that except that north is more like industrial and south agricultural.
Bonci
King
It's true that in northern Italy there are many people that think that way. There is also a political party that wants secession from the south. Still it's far from being a majority.
I think you can relate it with the rivalry between northern and southern states in the USA (though I'm not sure, I've never been there). In north Italy some people say to southerns "terroni" that could be related to USA's "rednecks".
I know even north and south germans feel very different.
@Steveg700: I like your idea very much, but I still hope Italy is in BNW
In that scenario there could be also some sort of "family" management (like in crusader knigs 2: the republic if you ever played that).
I think you can relate it with the rivalry between northern and southern states in the USA (though I'm not sure, I've never been there). In north Italy some people say to southerns "terroni" that could be related to USA's "rednecks".
I know even north and south germans feel very different.
@Steveg700: I like your idea very much, but I still hope Italy is in BNW
In that scenario there could be also some sort of "family" management (like in crusader knigs 2: the republic if you ever played that).
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