US's Nuclear Bombings of Japan.

One point I'd make is that "seeing is believing": had atom bombs not been dropped on Japan, they would have been used later, perhaps in Korea. Demonstrations will never be as convincing as real use -- cf. David Copperfield and the power of illusion. Atom bombs would have been used at least once.

Naval blockade, total trade sanctions, bombings of all major industrial sites and Japan has to surrender, just a matter of time and without the use of Atom. Would take longer and perhaps be more costly but would eventually work ....

"Perhaps" be more costly??? :confused: Are you sure?

It would have been more costly not only in terms of American dollars, but American lives, the suffering of the Chinese and other Japanese conquests that wouldn't suffer directly from a blackade, and even in terms of Japanese suffering. Don't forget that Japan had an almost suicidal morality and lost about 150,000 lives just defending Okinawa.

The atomic bombs saved lives.

... the destructive force or casualties were not dramatically different from fire bombing Tokyo. But mass bombing of cities was standard operating procedure for the war, so I'm not sure why these two should be singled out.

The 9 March 1945 bombing of Tokyo cost 100,000 lives; such fire bombings were on-going. Ending the war quickly saved Japanese lives.

Yes, it was a ruthless action. And being ruthless was the most merciful course of action.

Ending the war in a single decisive strike (which is usually going to be horrific) is better for the vast majority of people on every side than a protracted slow bleeding death. Yes, it means being willing to sacrifice many lives, but that's a willingness that, in some circumstances, has a place in warfare. (It's not really a valid excuse in a war you started, though).

Correct.

Let's be honest. The rush to end the war, on every front, was mostly driven by the pending division of spoils among the victors. The Soviets were willing to sacrifice troops to establish territorial claims, and the US wasn't.

Perhaps. But is it wrong for a pragmatic President to play RealPolitik? Would Japan have been "happier" if it were divided like Germany and half fell behind the "Iron Curtain"?

I'm not a big fan of American imperialism in general, but to focus U.S. atrocities, rather than those of Japan in W.W. II shows profound ignorance.
 
Nope, the most influencial of the top military brass felt the opposite. That dropping not just one but two atomic bombs on CIVILIANS was extremely stupid and unnecessary.

Did the Japanese commit atrocities? You bet. The Pacific under their control was rife of the taking of slave labor, comfort women, atrocities like Nanking, etc.

Compare this with the mass firebombing of 80% of Japanese cities by comparison. That alone is monumentally WORSE than all of the Japanese atrocities. Between 240,000 to 900,000 people were incinerated. It's impossible to count because everything was a wasteland.

Then add the combined deaths of two entire cities (Hiroshima + Nagasaki) with the long lasting mutations = at least 225,000.

That makes the USA in the top ten for genocide, and only surpassed by the Soviets and Communist China in complete democides.

By the end of WW2, especially after the Battle of Okinawa, Japan had no ability to protect itself from aerial raids, no navy to speak of, and minimal resistance by land forces due to mass starvation. The nutty projections of a million casualties were ludicrous. There was no mass resistence, even the kind of German resistence seen postWW2 (Werwolves) didn't happen.

Much of the footage was destroyed to keep Americans from seeing it (as well as the rest of the world) and Japanese footage was largely confiscated (but some was hidden and shown later).
Graphic effects of the atomic bombs in spoilers.
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In fact, the Japanese footage might have disappeared forever if the newsreel team had not hidden one print from the Americans in a ceiling. The color U.S. military footage was not shown anywhere until the early 1980s, and has never been fully aired. It rests today at the National Archives in College Park, Md. When that footage finally emerged, I spoke with and corresponded with the man at the center of this drama: Lt. Col. (Ret.) Daniel A. McGovern, who directed the U.S. military film-makers in 1945-1946, managed the Japanese footage, and then kept watch on all of the top-secret material for decades.

McGovern observed that, "The main reason it was classified was...because of the horror, the devastation." I also met and interviewed one top member of his military crew, who had fought for years to get the footage aired widely in America, and interviewed some of the hibakusha who appear in the footage. Those accounts form the center of Atomic Cover-Up. You can read about that a view some of the color footage here. But let's focus on tjhe Japanese newsreel footage for the moment.

On August 6, 1945, the United States dropped an atomic bomb over the center of Hiroshima, killing at least 70,000 civilians instantly and perhaps 70,000 more in the months to follow. Three days later, it exploded another atomic bomb over Nagasaki, killing 40,000 immediately and dooming tens of thousands of others. Within days, Japan had surrendered, and the U.S. readied plans to occupy the defeated country -- and documenting the first atomic catastrophe. But the Japanese also wanted to study it.

Within days of the second atomic attack, officials at the Tokyo-based newsreel company Nippon Eigasha discussed shooting film in the two stricken cities. In early September, just after the Japanese surrender, and as the American occupation began, director Ito Sueo set off for Nagasaki. There his crew filmed the utter destruction near ground zero and scenes in hospitals of the badly burned and those suffering from the lingering effects of radiation. On Sept. 15, another crew headed for Hiroshima.

When the first rushes came back to Tokyo, Iwasaki Akira, the chief producer (and well-known film writer), felt "every frame burned into my brain," he later said. At this point, the American public knew little about human conditions and radiation effects in the atomic cities. Newspaper photographs of victims were non-existent, or censored. Life magazine would later observe that for years "the world...knew only the physical facts of atomic destruction."

On October 24, 1945, a Japanese cameraman in Nagasaki was ordered to stop shooting by an American military policeman. His film, and then the rest of the 26,000 feet of Nippon Eisasha footage, was confiscated by the U.S. General Headquarters (GHQ). An order soon arrived banning all further filming. At this point Lt. Daniel McGovern took charge.

In early September 1945, McGovern had become one of the first Americans to arrive in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. He was a director with the U.S. Strategic Bombing Survey, organized by the Army the previous November to study the effects of the air campaign against Germany, and now Japan.

As he made plans to shoot the official American record, McGovern learned about the seizure of the Japanese footage. He felt it would be a waste to not take advantage of the newsreel footage, noting in a letter to his superiors that "the conditions under which it was taken will not be duplicated, until another atomic bomb is released under combat conditions." McGovern proposed hiring some of the Japanese crew to shoot more footage and edit and "caption" the material, so it would have "scientific value."

About the same time, McGovern was ordered by General Douglas MacArthur on January 1, 1946 to document the results of the U.S. air campaign in more than 20 Japanese cities. His crew would shoot exclusively in color film, Kodachrome and Technicolor, rarely used at the time even in Hollywood.

While all this was going on, the Japanese newsreel team was completing its work of editing and labeling their black and white footage into a rough cut of just under three hours. At this point, several members of the Japanese team took the courageous step of ordering from the lab a duplicate of the footage they had shot before the Americans took over the project. Director Ito later said: "The four of us agreed to be ready for 10 years of hard labor in case of being discovered." One incomplete, silent print would reside in a ceiling until the Occupation ended in 1952.

The negative of the finished Japanese film, nearly 15,000 feet of footage on 19 reels, was sent off to the U.S. in early May 1946. The Japanese were also ordered to include in this shipment all photographs and related material. The footage would be labeled SECRET and not emerge from the shadows for more than 20 years.

During this period, McGovern was looking after both the Japanese and the American footage. Fearful that the Japanese film might get lost forever in the military/government bureaucracy, he secretly made a 16 mm print and deposited it in the U.S. Air Force Central Film Depository at Wright-Patterson. There it remained out of sight, and generally out of mind. On Sept. 12, 1967, the Air Force transferred the Japanese footage to the National Archives Audio Visual Branch in Washington, with the film "not to be released without approval of DOD (Department of Defense)."

Then, one morning in the summer of 1968, Erik Barnouw, author of landmark histories of film and broadcasting, opened his mail to discover a clipping from a Tokyo newspaper sent by a friend. It indicated that the U.S. had finally shipped to Japan a copy of black and white newsreel footage shot in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The Japanese had negotiated with the State Department for its return. From the Pentagon, Barnouw learned that the original nitrate film had been quietly turned over to the National Archives and went to take a look.

 
Crackerbox I think you should put these videos into spoilers, because graphic photos can be seen even without playing the videos. On YT you can also find videos showing executions by ISIS, etc., but posting such things on the forum can get you infracted unless spoilered and with proper warnings.
 
Crackerbox I think you should put these videos into spoilers, because graphic photos can be seen even without playing the videos. On YT you can also find videos showing executions by ISIS, etc., but posting such things on the forum can get you infracted unless spoilered and with proper warnings.

Done. It's rather difficult to explain the atomic bombings without showing the aftereffects. Usually people just see the mushroom clouds.

And thanks for the head's up.

People always bring up Nanking and the Comfort Women. What they don't tell is the revisionists have over and over made the statistics grow and grow and grow. The Conservatives in Japan have dismissed the original estimates as being too high. The real estimates are probably in the middle.

With the Comfort Women, it came out in dribs and drabs that the Americans and the Australians didn't release the enslaved women but kept them as prostitutes themselves. The US military continuously supplied antibiotics for all of the STDs. Many of them were teenagers. It was horrific and shameful that both sides abused them. There were daily accounts of horrendous violence until that was shut up as well. Lukcily some jounalists put some light upon it as well as some historians.
 
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