If a CS gifts me a mounted unit, does it use one of MY horses?

charon2112 said:
My point is it's not really a gift if it isn't completely free. I know that I can sell it, gift it, or suicide it, that's beside the point.
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Eh? So "You've just won a free trip to Hawaii! (Air fare, tips, and gratuities not included.)" Means that it has no value to you? Or you win a raffled automobile, but it has no value to you because it doesn't come with the gas, insurance, and maintenance all prepaid, that makes for no value to you? Or you let an old lady know she just dropped her wallet, so she gives you $20 as a reward, that's bogus because she didn't hand over ALL her cash?

You have a rather narrow view of what constitutes generosity from others.
 
CaptainPatch said:
Eh? So "You've just won a free trip to Hawaii! (Air fare, tips, and gratuities not included.)" Means that it has no value to you? Or you win a raffled automobile, but it has no value to you because it doesn't come with the gas, insurance, and maintenance all prepaid, that makes for no value to you? Or you let an old lady know she just dropped her wallet, so she gives you $20 as a reward, that's bogus because she didn't hand over ALL her cash?

You have a rather narrow view of what constitutes generosity from others.
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It's just a game bro.
 
charon2112 said:
My point is it's not really a gift if it isn't completely free. I know that I can sell it, gift it, or suicide it, that's beside the point.
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Seriously, I'm not sure what your point is. This post makes it sound like your main objection is that they call it a gift. In which case I would agree with CaptainPatch.
 
Dralix said:
Seriously, I'm not sure what your point is. This post makes it sound like your main objection is that they call it a gift. In which case I would agree with CaptainPatch.
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I don't know how I can be any clearer. A gift unit shouldn't use my resources, it should just be added to my units, free and clear.
 
charon2112 said:
I don't know how I can be any clearer. A gift unit shouldn't use my resources, it should just be added to my units, free and clear.
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If it wasn't called a gift, would you have the same objection? It's a game mechanic. Units that require resources use those resources from the units owner, regardless of how the unit was obtained. I don't see why it should be any other way.
 
Well, it's a horse. It needs food. Consider those horsies you have as strategic resources as food.

A CS gifts you a horse. It does not provide you with food for it. It's a gift. It is added to your units. Free. And clear. And if your stable is full, a CS will not provide you with another stable. Build another one.

It's a gift. And if that just doesn't cut it for you... translate gift into German and problem solved.
 
charon2112 said:
I don't know how I can be any clearer. A gift unit shouldn't use my resources, it should just be added to my units, free and clear.
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If someone gave you a computer, would you complain that you have to use electricty to power it? That it's not really a gift?

The unit is free. You did not spend anything to make it. That it has an upkeep - of resources and money - does not in any way stop it being a gift.
 
Dralix said:
If it wasn't called a gift, would you have the same objection? It's a game mechanic. Units that require resources use those resources from the units owner, regardless of how the unit was obtained. I don't see why it should be any other way.
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But it IS a gift, so your comment is hypothetical. Really, no one agrees with me that a unit given to you by another civ or CS shouldn't use one of my resources?
 
charon2112 said:
But it IS a gift, so your comment is hypothetical. Really, no one agrees with me that a unit given to you by another civ or CS shouldn't use one of my resources?
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they use your gold,
they take up one of your hexes

No reason why they shouldn't use your resources.

(although I'm sure someone disagrees)
 
charon2112 said:
But it IS a gift, so your comment is hypothetical. Really, no one agrees with me that a unit given to you by another civ or CS shouldn't use one of my resources?
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Maybe someone agrees, but I don't. Other people have given you analogies that you've rejected.

It's a gift, but a gift that you have to pay maintenance for. Personally, I have no problem with that.
 
Dralix said:
Maybe someone agrees, but I don't. Other people have given you analogies that you've rejected.

It's a gift, but a gift that you have to pay maintenance for. Personally, I have no problem with that.
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I never said anything about the maintenance, the maintenance is fine, he has to be fed. But the unit itself shouldn't come from my own stock. Basically, the cs is saying "here's a gift of a horse archer" then points to MY stable and says "help yourself"
 
charon2112 said:
I never said anything about the maintenance, the maintenance is fine, he has to be fed. But the unit itself shouldn't come from my own stock. Basically, the cs is saying "here's a gift of a horse archer" then points to MY stable and says "help yourself"
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Generally I agree but it would harm the game resource mechanism, because you get penalty if you loose a resource needed for certain unit you have, so resources in Civ5 are considered not only to build a unit but also to MAINTAIN it, so at that point of view it's clearly correct that gifted unit uses your resource.
Otherwise, we should eliminate lack-of-resource penalty for having no resource for unit maintenance and we should make resources only needed to CREATE a certain unit but not for maintaining it which would only be represented by gold per turn. Actually I'm not sure if that kind of system wouldn't be more realistic BUT even if it was then it would only be for horse/iron units. For oil-based units it IS realistic these units need oil resource all the time.
 
Camillo said:
resources in Civ5 are considered not only to build a unit but also to MAINTAIN it
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Exactly. Over time, horses get rested, go lame or die, get replaced. Swords are damaged, get repaired, reforged, replaced. The ongoing need for the resource would represent this.
 
Sounds like you're getting a bit wound up about this. As others have said, it's a game mechanic and just is, for now.

In any event, I'm confused about what alternative mechanic you would suggest:
  • Gifted horse units don't require horses at all (and gifted swordsmen don't require iron, etc.)? Seems potentially OP to me. If the no-resource-required unit is injured, does it need horses (or iron, whatever) to heal? (How does a horse unit without a source of additional horses or a sword unit without access to surplus iron restore itself to full strength, since horses have died and the swords of fallen warriors have been lost.) What happens if you have one gifted "no-resource-required" horse unit and 4 "regular" horse units, and you lose your only source of horses (maybe your one pasture is pillaged by barbs)? Only the 4 "regular" horse units have a resource penalty?

  • The gift-giver has to provide an extra horse (or iron, or coal, whatever) with the gift? For how many turns? For the rest of the game? Only so long as you remain allied with the CS? What if the CS's source of horses (or other resource) is pillaged? In every other context in the game, if you cease to be allied with a CS or your trading partner loses the resource source that has been traded to you, you lose the resource and operate with a resource penalty.

  • CSs shouldn't be able to gift any units that require strategic resources? That would rule out horse and sword units, landships, mobile SAMs, rocket artillery, etc., and would eliminate many of the UUs that CSs can currently gift.
 
Actually it could be solved like this: when CS gives you free unit this unit is resource-free as long as you are allied with this CS or the CS have that resource improved. The CS just create and maintain this unit using it's own resource, not yours. But If you are no more ally to CS or someone pillage CS's resource improvement you have to maintain this unit from your own recources since then, unless you are ally with that CS again or it would repair it's resource improvement. But this would really make these things complicated.
 
Camillo said:
Actually it could be solved like this: when CS gives you free unit this unit is resource-free as long as you are allied with this CS or the CS have that resource improved. The CS just create and maintain this unit using it's own resource, not yours. But If you are no more ally to CS or someone pillage CS's resource improvement you have to maintain this unit from your own recources since then, unless you are ally with that CS again or it would repair it's resource improvement. But this would really make these things complicated.
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It would, but I think it can make allying with City-States more rewarding.
 
They could just make it so the given unit doesn't remove one of your resources. It lasts as long as the unit is alive, if it's killed, that's that. Oil is different, that is something, like gold for food, that's ongoing.
 
Well, I would argue that if lack of resource doesn't impair combat effectiveness, it should at least preclude healing. Like oil the need for more horses, or iron, or coal, etc. should be regarded as an ongoing need, for healing purposes, if not operating purposes.
 
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