TSG 135 After Action Report

Your name: sebtanic
Game status: Diplomacy Victory
Game date: 1740AD
Turns played: 173
Base score: 1308
Final score: 2515

Had a lot of fun with this map. First priority was of course getting Desert Folklore, like everbody else apparently. Luckily met a faith CS very soon so didn't even have to build the shrine until I got philo (for Mud Pyramids).

Unlike everybody else apparently, I went for the honor opener first to have some fun with barb hunting. I think it did help actually, since there were barb camps all over the map the entire game. I had an extra policy in the end that I didn't really need, so opened commerce (but I was swimming in gold already).

Went liberty/wide, built 4 cities (including capital) next to mountains, then NC. After NC built another city in the forest/tundra to the NE, next to river. Much later decided to build 2 more to increase faith output. Put one on the SE desert on the eastern shore, with lots of wheat and a oasis, and another one on the isthmus to the south next to whales. That city got coal eventually which was very helpful for getting me early factories, allowing for +25% science bonus from Order ideology.

Got reformation/To The Glory Of God to buy GS. Faith bought four of them total. Another one was gifted by CS In the end I got to Telecommunication quite easily by bulbing, and even had one GS surplus which I used on Globalization. Had all the CS allied in the end, plus bonuses from FP, World Rel & World Ideology. Plus 2 votes from diplomats made for 58 votes out of 46 needed.

Had a totally peaceful game, except that I DOWed Shaka the turn before the final vote as he was the only one who had enough money to potentially steal some of my CS allies. Wasn't needed probably as I had enough extra votes, but old habits don't die

I enjoyed the large map, it was fun to explore, hunt barbs and try and find all the civs.

Quick pace was cool too, I was pleasantly surpirised that the final voting cycle was only 6 turns and not 10 as I expected.

Some notes from my end game:

t122 met everyone -> WC founded
t129 GS (bought w faith) bulbed Sci. Theory, bought 2 public schools right away w gold
t149 2 GS (1 CS gift, 1 natural) bulbed Plastics - bought 3 research labs right away
t150-162: next WC session was scheduled for t162, so I thought I had to get 10 techs in 12 turns to get from Plastics to Telecom. Bulbed six or so GS (3 bought, 1 from liberty, 2 natural I think). Fortunately there was a host vote when I reached Atomic Era, delaying the next vote by a further 2 turns and giving me some much needed breathing space)
t162 Oxforded Telecom, with only 2 turns left for the next WC session, so expecting to win t177 (2 turns to vote for host, 2 turns till next session (where I'll get World Ideology), session takes 1 turn, then 10 more turns till World Leader vote)
t173 won (WL vote took only 6 turns instead of 10 )

Quite happy with my finish time. I'm not sure if my last 2 cities were worth it science-wise, as they each increased tech costs by 3% and they only brought in about 25-30 bpt each. However they definitely brought in some faith, and coal was extremely good to have for the factory science bonus

sebtanic said:

Quick pace was cool too, I was pleasantly surpirised that the final voting cycle was only 6 turns and not 10 as I expected.

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I was nearly unpleasantly surprised - I wasn't watching that clock and so nearly clicked through it without buying the CS first. That would have been

Did you use your UU?
Not really I bought one at the end to help a CS.
- How useful was your UA?
Meh, ok I suppose not much of a difference. I didn't war, and I only captured a few barb outposts.
- Did you use spying to your advantage?
I don't see how. I was way to far ahead in tech.
- Did the map type help or hinder victory and how?
Map was fine. I got desert folklore, but it took forever to find all the civs.
- How did the difficulty level affect your game decisions?
Probably not much. I would have still B-lined a religion. I might have thought about picking order instead of freedom, but they were too far behind me to even worry about that.
- Was Faith helpful to achieve victory? How? Did you build any faith wonders?
No faith wonders that I remember, but I picked Jesuit Education, so I just bought up all the later tech science buildings.
- What Social Policies did you choose and in what order?
I went Liberty, then Piety, then Patronage, got Freedom, then started commerce.
Which Ideology did you choose?
Freedom
- What techs did you prioritize ?
Science ones. I didn't get chemistry until after Globalization.
- How did the policy restrictions affect your game? What did you use to offset the science loss from not having the Rationalism Tree?
I picked liberty instead of tradition, and I went Jesuit Education Reformation to help offset it.

Looking at how others finished, I guess I have to figure out what they did to speed things up. The last 30-40 turns were pretty much just hitting enter, and waiting for my Techs to come.

You were completely isolated on this map. Germany was very south as the only neighbor on your land mass. I didn't even have to war at all except to take an early settler from germany to set him back.

A very sloppy, peaceful T198 win, with 3 unused Great Artists, 2 Great Scientists and over 5000 accumulated Faith. I should have GA'ed my way through Piety to get To the Glory of God also. I also should have taunted Ashurbanipal into declaring war and then completely added him to the empire. Battleships vs. Musketeers.

It was amusing to spread my Desert Folklore religion resulting in the other civs having the FPT to found their own religions, then have them get angry when their religion sputtered out and died in the face of all the religious pressure.

Game date: 1858AD
Turns played: 199
Base score: 3500
Final score: 5833
Time played: 8:10:00

- Did you use your UU?
Songhai has a decent UU, but it isn't vital. I built plenty of chariot archers which upgraded to my UU and later into cavalry.

- How useful was your UA?
It was great. I was continuously capturing barbarian camps and I also invaded many cities and it brought in a fortune. I was trying to provoke an early vote, but because I am playing through quickly my conquest lacked finesse.

- Did you use spying to your advantage?
Not particularly, my spies did very little of value.

- Did the map type help or hinder victory and how?
Hindered. If we had been on one continent I would have been far quicker at invading my neighbors to provoke an early vote.

- How did the difficulty level affect your game decisions?
It meant I could build most of the wonders without much fear. It also meant that I never considered research agreements.

- Was Faith helpful to achieve victory? How? Did you build any faith wonders?
Faith was crucial. It bought tonnes of pagodas and mosques for culture and happiness. I also purchased tonnes of great people using the reformation that allows you to purchase any great person.

- What Social Policies did you choose and in what order? Which Ideology did you choose?
Some liberty, then opened in honor, completed liberty and then completed piety. I eventually took Freedom and completed patronage and much of exploration, commerce and the culture one.

- What techs did you prioritize?
Philosophy for National College and the UB.

- How did the policy restrictions affect your game? What did you use to offset the science loss from not having the Rationalism Tree?
I had a big empire with quite a few cities next to mountains. Planting plenty of Great Scientists also helped. I missed the Tradition opener (for expanding borders) and Oligarchy the most (free garrisons). I tend to have a large military and Oligarchy makes this more affordable in times of peace.

- Did the pace affect your plans?
At a slower pace my military would have played a more crucial role.


I settled next to the mountain and built some scouts. I found the local city states and demanded tribute. I very soon had a worker and some buildings funded by my demands. I built up, got plenty of wonders including Petra and went warring. I stared with La Venta as it had plenty of resources and would give me a useful port. I took down Germany, then the Assyrians, Polish, Zulus, Siamese, Mongols, Koreans and finally the Greeks. I recalled the Siamese to life in the late game to ensure I'd win the vote.

This was my first game as Askia and I really enjoyed his UA and UB. Those mud mosques really make a difference

This was the first game I demanded tribute from city states and that really made a difference. I'm not sure why I've ignored this possibility - perhaps the easy difficulty level made it a possibility

Not the fastest time, but I'm pretty sure it is a great score given the time. GG.

I rarely if ever build research. I prefer to build more buildings even though it won't make any significant difference (lack of discipline).

For the players who are quick at finishing, how crucial is building research to achieving a good time?

kittenOFchaos said:

how crucial is building research to achieving a good time?

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I built research occasionally before popping GS, to improve their output. I only mass switched to research (i.e. most of my cities) during the final stretch, between plastics and telecom, for a couple turns before popping those 6 or so GS. After that I switched to building wealth to bribe the remaining CS.

Nice conquest BTW! I'm not very good at warmongering, not sure if I could have pulled that off. I'm surprised that it didn't help you with the finish date though, with 2 civs alive you should get the vote when you reach Atomic Era don't you? Maybe you should've razed those cities instead of puppeting to avoid the 3% tech cost increase?

sebtanic said:

I built research occasionally before popping GS, to improve their output.

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I haven't been doing that. That may make a real difference to me. Thanks!

I'm not a fan of the late game tech tree as tanks never really get a look in. Also, due to bulbing and the easy victory conditions the late game doesn't last long. Firaxis compounded this by putting in silly units just to make sure the game will end. XCOMs and Giant Death Robots, eugh! I'm hoping combat is significantly improved in Civ VI as I particularly hate how pointless swordsmen are and the mechanics to restrict even rather petty warmongering.

Suggestion: a GOTM where you have to take and hold at least 10 cities (or some such number). I'd be good to see more wide civilizations and less tall ones (with the exception of trying to complete a Sacred Sites cultural victory.

That could be done, the next Domination game will have some different settings for a tougher challenge

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Your name: MPoxon
Game status: Diplomacy Victory
Game date: 1942AD
Turns played: 241
Base score: 1780
Final score: 2438
Time played: 6:59:00

Really enjoyed this game. I am learning a lot from these GOTM games. Almost every game I have played I have gone full Tradition opener, the no Tradition rule forced me go liberty left side opener then full Piety. Never really bothered with Religion either, only faith for great musician spam at the end of a culture game. Desert Folklaw was an epic way to a quick religion and tithe was a great way to raise some gold early on.

I think I should have spent less time wonder whoring and more time on early expansion, also should have done more research agreements.

- Did you use your UU?
No

- How useful was your UA?
No mainly peaceful

- Did you use spying to your advantage?
Levelled up spies on defence in Capital and then used to rig CS elections. Late game diplomats in cities for extra delegates at congress

- Did the map type help or hinder victory and how?
Map was awesome for Desert Fokelaw Pantheon and lots of space to expand.

- How did the difficulty level affect your game decisions?
Plenty of time to wonder whore and no worries to much about building up defences

- Was Faith helpful to achieve victory? How? Did you build any faith wonders?
Yes Desert Folklaw, Tithe for early gold and then the enhancement that allows you to buy any GP with faith to purchase and plant Great Scientists

- What Social Policies did you choose and in what order? Which Ideology did you choose?
Honor opener for barb culture. Left side of Liberty, Full Piety. Full Patronage, Commerce and then navigation. Freedom Ideology

- What techs did you prioritise ?
Petra Tech then Education techs.

- How did the policy restrictions affect your game? What did you use to offset the science loss from not having the Rationalism Tree?
I would have gone standard Full tradition opener but the restriction did make me think. Purchased Great Scientists with Religion Enhancement which allows purchase of any Great Person (the grace of god?) Scholatarism on the Patronage tree where you get 25% science from City states.

- Did the pace affect your plans?
Didn't notice the pace aside from the strange costs of research agreements.

Date submitted: 2016-05-22 20:43:04
Reference number: 34406
Your name: zxcvbob
Game status: Diplomacy Victory
Game date: 1902AD
Turns played: 221
Base score: 1768
Final score: 2678
Time played: 7:43:00

- Did you use your UU?
No; didn't build a single one.

- How useful was your UA?
The gold from barb encampments was really nice in the early game. Later (when I was swimming in gold anyway) it didn't make any difference.

- Did you use spying to your advantage?
Not particularly.

- Did the map type help or hinder victory and how?
Large map and quick pace was a weird combination. My units aged a lot while they were embarked. I did have a knight upgrade to a cavalry early-on, and he stayed relevant the whole game. Killed a lot of barbs...

- Did the pace affect your plans?
The quick pace screwed up my timing for bulbing scientists. I ended up getting a bunch more techs after Globalization, waiting for the world leader vote.

- Was Faith helpful to achieve victory? How? Did you build any faith wonders?
My religion had Tithe, and I converted a *lot* of city states to my religion. The GPT and the slower influence decay was useful. And the pagodas were nice.
I build Hagia Sophia, mainly for the free temple. [D'oh! I didn't realize my temples already required no GPT] Does Notre Dame count as a faith wonder? I did not try for Stonehenge (although I could have gotten it) and I never opened Piety to unlock the Great Mosque. My faith output from Desert Folklore was so high, 3 free missionaries from Borobudur would have been an annoyance rather than a help.

- What Social Policies did you choose and in what order? Which Ideology did you choose?
Liberty opener, Honor opener, finished Freedom(free GS). Patronage, Commerce, Freedom(6), Exploration. I was filling in the rest of Honor when the game finished but I didn't really need anything more. I did take the free worker for my first policy in Liberty. That and the Honor opener really delayed my free settler, but I didn't wait for the free one; I started building settlers when Gao reached 4 pop.

- What techs did you prioritize ?
Radio, Plastics, Globalization.

- How did the policy restrictions affect your game? What did you use to offset the science loss from not having the Rationalism Tree?
Scholasticism kind-of made up for not having the R tree. And I sent food caravans to Gao and Tombouctu. All my cities had good population growth right up to the end.

There was some kind of bug with the coal in this game. I was allied to the CS that had coal, and they had mines on both coal tiles, but they didn't give me any until the game was almost over. They even had a quest me to acquire some coal.

The game was too peaceful. I finally stirred up some trouble while waiting for the world leader vote; I proposed (and rammed through) the world religion even tho' I didn't need the extra votes, and I declared war on Poland because he had been annoying me the whole game. I may reload my last turn and play it out; Poland is down to one city, and all my friends are going to backstab me when I eliminate them. But I'm 20 techs ahead and my military is larger than all of theirs combined.

zxcvbob said:

There was some kind of bug with the coal in this game. I was allied to the CS that had coal, and they had mines on both coal tiles, but they didn't give me any until the game was almost over. They even had a quest me to acquire some coal.

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I would like to know the answer to this as well. I was allied with a CS that had coal with a mine on it but got no coal. I found a CS with an unimproved coal resource, used the option to give gold to the CS to improve a resource and I got coal???? WTF.

I think it depends on whether that particular CS has discovered the corresponding tech yet.

sebtanic said:

I think it depends on whether that particular CS has discovered the corresponding tech yet.

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That would make sense, but aren't they at the same tech level as me? (or are they at the average tech level) The militaristic CS's were giving me marines and SAMs when the AI's were still fighting with rifles, cannons, knights, and trebuchets. Also, they had a quest for coal.

If a CS hasnt improved a resource you can pay them to improve it, but not if the site already has a mine. Then you have to wait until it has been discovered by that CS.

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I belive they tech at an average rate of tech, but discover in the normal process. MCS seem to use their tech progress towards military techs.

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The units military CS gives has nothing to do with their tech level, it's based on player's tech.

Sclb said:

The units military CS gives has nothing to do with their tech level, it's based on player's tech.

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I knew they gift units at my tech level, but I thought that was because they were tracking with me...

So they can give me units that they can't build for themselves. That explains why they don't defend better when Shaka (etc) attacks them -- I should give some of those units back when they get in trouble.

Game: Civ5 GOTM 135
Date submitted: 2016-05-25 15:20:25
Reference number: 34417
Your name: Groin_Apologist
Game status: Diplomacy Victory
Game date: 1994AD
Turns played: 274
Base score: 1961
Final score: 2362

Yipes. I forgot that I had chosen To the Glory of God, and thus I missed my chance to use more great scientists. So that was probably the biggest factor. My opponents didn't advance as quickly as I had thought they might, so I ended up having to get to the correct era myself.

No strife with nearby civs due to the shape of the continent just expanded to the bottle-neck. Ended up amphibiously conquering Greece and Siam to eliminate any competition from 'diplomacy-strong' enemies. But I still had to wait around until for tech advances.

For diplomatic wins, do people generally NOT build constabularies and police stations (nor place spies in your capitol) so as to encourage stealing of techs and general tech advancement, or is it just assumed that you need to be the one to bring the world into the correct era?

Also, what is the rule on city-states giving you their coal? Am I to understand from this thread that they have to improve the coal WHILE they are your allies for you to get it?

Groin_Apologist said:

For diplomatic wins, do people generally NOT build constabularies and police stations (nor place spies in your capitol) so as to encourage stealing of techs and general tech advancement, or is it just assumed that you need to be the one to bring the world into the correct era?

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For fast wins, you will have to be the one bringing the world into correct era. The AI will always be too slow, even if you let them steal, so might as well level your spies there. Building police stations will only slow their leveling, so nobody builds them. There are 2 ways to get there, either to get to information era yourself, or eliminate all but 2 AI and be in atomic era yourself.

Also, what is the rule on city-states giving you their coal? Am I to understand from this thread that they have to improve the coal WHILE they are your allies for you to get it?

Click to expand...

I believe CS follows the general tech rate of the world, so if the world is in industrial era, you will get coal if they have discovered the tech and you're allied. Note that you can also pay them to improve a resource, even if they haven't discovered the tech for it yet.
Now the caveat is that you can't pay to improve their resource if they already built the improvement on it. So if they already built a mine, then you're stuck until the CS actually discover the tech.
There are ways around it, either conquer the CS, or settle a city next to it and use GG to steal their coal. I stole their coal in my game, lose something like 50 influence but it's easy to fix with gold.