Ideas for C2C

Sparth said:

Maybe not all culture should add same things? Maybe some allow you to build stronger units (more aggresive cultures for sure), other - better buidlings (more peacuful) and other - terrain improvements.

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Currently we use special workers to do the special terrain improvements however I have come up with a better way of doing them using manufactured resources. We have three active at the moment

• The wonder improvement Geoglyphs - converted need to remove special unit
• Religion wonder Maccu Pichu Village on mountains - uses special unit
• Cultural improvement Moai - uses special unit

We also have a number of ones sitting waiting for work to be done. "Burial Caves", Base Cultural Nomadic Site - "Stone Circle" etc. Some of these need to be unique globally and I have just figured out a way of sort of doing that by making the distance between them very large. Doesn't help with National Wonder Improvements.

Originally they were implemented using special workers. By adding a manufactured resource I changed it so that the normal workers could build the improvement if they had access to that resource.

Now that I know it works I should finish off the conversion and start adding in the others

DH, in february I should be free (when im add my 2 projects to SVN) and then Ill help you with this. Cultures should be one of C2C stronger points and they are half-done. Together we make them shine!

Sparth said:

Poison development is IMO also overcomplicated.

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As it is now it's horrifically oversimplified. But once I can get some direct work on it done in conjunction with equipments it will give many interesting choices in how to arm some units. Should be quite fun to proliferate these once it gets to that point. (And educational )

Culture heritag should be somehow linked with the city. If for example playing England you conquer Mekka it kind a silly you automatically can build in London all middle eastern buildings.

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The way national cultural spread works now will eventually be similar to the way individual cultures will spread in the future. Cities will be able to be 'primarily' one culture or another and will be able to show the percentages of folks in the population that identify with particular cultures. At this point, special units/buildings etc... can be made to have a percentage prerequisite for the city to be able to build them. The same will be true for Religions and Languages. This project isn't THAT far off but is held up by the need to make sure units are all nicely in line and fully balanced first. Building reviews may be necessary to take place first as well but that's a wait and see kind of thing.

Generally whatever you want to do with this stuff, go for it. But later on we'll have more capacity to guide the prerequisites and distributions of these kinds of culture-specific elements.

This may actually need to be established before equipments since some of those should be culturally specific as well... it's not really that hard a thing to do if DH is willing to do some magic with the city screen once its ready.

Since there are many buildings here that fill in currently empty techs I think I will add them as a mod in the My_Mods folder for inclusion in v37.

I will think about the techs and the like.

Thunderbrd said:

As it is now it's horrifically oversimplified. But once I can get some direct work on it done in conjunction with equipments it will give many interesting choices in how to arm some units. Should be quite fun to proliferate these once it gets to that point. (And educational )

Click to expand...

Just out of curiosity, is there any evidence poison was used by ancient/medieval military units on a large scale? I tend to doubt it, as I doubt that it could be produced/manufactured on a large enough scale (and probably too expensive as well).

I have coded "Chilehaus", "The Dali Theatre", "Organ Hall" and "Telescreen" but they need some extra details and tweaks. I have not added in prerequisite materials or buildings consistently. I will put them on the SVN for people to view and comment on.

Taxman66 said:

Just out of curiosity, is there any evidence poison was used by ancient/medieval military units on a large scale? I tend to doubt it, as I doubt that it could be produced/manufactured on a large enough scale (and probably too expensive as well).

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When you say large scale, I think we're in agreement that it's not really best to apply for many military units. Primarily, Criminals, Strike Teams, maybe Ruffians, possibly Archers, and Throwing units. But in a melee sense, poison was really a waste considering for these warriors, to strike was to kill. And it would be the same in C2C. Poisons, the way I have it conceived, are best for a strike and retreat style unit that then lets the poison weaken the foe thereafter. Of course, different poisons will have different effects based on real world research on what they actually do.

On large scale in military (not-tribal) units poison was used in china by archers/chokunu units. Very useful for non both armored and unarmored (like mongol riders) warriors.

Interesting. Maybe the only way to model the many times it was NOT used would be to make it a limited resource. I've considered that for many types of equipment, having limited supplies would really be a trick to making the system work well.

If you want consumables for some special manufactured goods then Platyping's mod will work quite well.

It stores them in the capital ie adds another of the resource to the capital every time it is made and removes it when it is used in creating a unit with it. Without spare in the capital you can't build the unit.

Change this to equipment promotions for poisons and every combat it is used it needs to be replenished from the store or the unit looses the promotion until the reserves are restored and the unit gets back to a supply place for instance.

Dancing Hoskuld said:

If you want consumables for some special manufactured goods then Platyping's mod will work quite well.
It stores them in the capital ie adds another of the resource to the capital every time it is made and removes it when it is used in creating a unit with it. Without spare in the capital you can't build the unit.

Click to expand...

Hmm its sound good. How hard it's to implement it to C2C?

Satanism (x44)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanism
Requires: Gnosticism
Enables: Satanism (Religion)
Demonic Circle
+1
+2 if is State
+1 from Incense
+3 from Sulphur
Spreads
Can turn 1 Citizen into Priest
1 Crime/Turn
Required to Train Warlock, Witch
Requires Ash or Candles or Drugs
90
Black Bestiary
Heals As (People) +2%/Turn
Spreads
+2 , +10%
+5% with Cat
+5% with Cat
+1 from Rabbit, Pig, Cow, Poultry, Sheep
Requires Bricks and Furniture
Requires Cat or Rabbit or Pig or Cow or Poultry or Sheep
60
Warlock’s Library
+1 , +30% , +20%
+2 if is State
Spreads
Can turn 2 Citizens into Priest
+1 from Gold Ore
4 Education/ Turn
Requires Demonic Circle
Requires City Council or Metropolitan Administration or Capital Administration
300 (Double Production Speed with Marble)
Sabbat
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witches'_Sabbath
+4 , +1 (Great Prophet)
+1 per City with
Spreads
Can turn 3 Citizens into Priest
Can be built by Great Prophet
Can only be Constructed in the Holy City
Church of Satan (World Wonder)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Satan
+7 , +2 (Great Prophet)
+2 if is State religion
+1 in All Cities
+1 from All State religion Buildings
+5 with Free Church
Can turn 2 Citizens into Priest
+3 Free Priest
State Religion must be present in city
Requires Warlock’s Library
Requires City Size of at least 13
Requires Pop Art
7700

Pastafarianism (x85)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster
Requires: Counterculture
Enables: Pastafarianism (Religion)
Meatball Shrine
+1 , +10%
Heals As (People) +2%/Turn
Spreads
+1% with Saw Meat, Dried Meat
+1 with Rice, Spices
Required to Train FMM Missionary

Requires LSD Lab
385
Temple of Spaghetti
+1 , +5%
+1 if is State
+1 from Barley, Wheat, Pasta
Spread
Can Turn 1 Citizen into Priest
1 Tourism/Turn
Requires LSD Lab
495
Pirate’s House
+1 , +2 , +10%
+4 if is State
Spreads
+2 from Alcohol, Tobacco, Hats
5 crime/Turns
Requires Temple of Spaghetti
Requires City Council or Metropolitan Administration or Capital Administration
2000 (Double Production Speed with Marble)
Altar of Flying Spaghetti Monster
+7 , +20% , +1 (Great Prophet)
+1 per City with
Spreads
Can turn 3 Citizens into Priest
Can be built by Great Prophet
Can only be Constructed in the Holy City

Dancing Hoskuld said:

If you want consumables for some special manufactured goods then Platyping's mod will work quite well.

It stores them in the capital ie adds another of the resource to the capital every time it is made and removes it when it is used in creating a unit with it. Without spare in the capital you can't build the unit.

Change this to equipment promotions for poisons and every combat it is used it needs to be replenished from the store or the unit looses the promotion until the reserves are restored and the unit gets back to a supply place for instance.

Click to expand...

Might work. Might work quite well. Was thinking something similar. Would have to play around with it a bit. With SM, I'd want some strong granularity to such tracking. Might need to be designed a bit deeper in C2C but this was along the lines of what I was aiming at.

Cryptography (x29)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptography
Requires: Writing
Special Abilities:
First to Discover Receives a Great Spy
Enables: Сryptogram (Language Civic)
Сryptogram
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ciphertext
+10% , +20% in All Cities
15% Faster Construction of School of Scribes
-10 Crime/Turn (City)

The Language Civics are usually considered to be a linear progression, and all of them have a diplomatic bonus (if you leave that out, you get set back to the level of the first level (ignorance?)). Furthermore, writing (the direct predecessor) already gives a Language Civic (Interpreters), giving 20 % , making this option a real setback.

tmv said:

The Language Civics are usually considered to be a linear progression, and all of them have a diplomatic bonus (if you leave that out, you get set back to the level of the first level (ignorance?)). Furthermore, writing (the direct predecessor) already gives a Language Civic (Interpreters), giving 20 % , making this option a real setback.

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10% science vs +20% spy in All Cities, 15% Faster Construction of School of Scribes, -10 Crime/Turn (City). I think this not bad.

What tmv is saying is that this breaks the whole civic.

Cryptography might actually work better if it gives a leadership promotion, since that is what cryptography would do at that point. It would inspire little research (perhaps trying to break a code, but even then not as an organized effort - this is centuries before the bombe).

As far as breaking code is concerned, that would be better represented by a promotion as well, which could signify the unorganized effort by a small group or even a single individual, undoing the effect of the first promotion.

tmv said:

Cryptography might actually work better if it gives a leadership promotion, since that is what cryptography would do at that point. It would inspire little research (perhaps trying to break a code, but even then not as an organized effort - this is centuries before the bombe).

As far as breaking code is concerned, that would be better represented by a promotion as well, which could signify the unorganized effort by a small group or even a single individual, undoing the effect of the first promotion.

Click to expand...

What kind of statistics would that create? I wonder if the concept should be fleshed out deeper than the surface xml can provide at the moment. The effect it really would have would, imo, be a matter of enabling the ability to 'steal plans' without using a spy in an enemy city to do it. Or at least a major boost to the likelihood of the action, or even making it impossible for the spy to get caught trying this?