Consulates

Does anyone still grab this as a filler between their opening policy tree and rationalism?

I do if I'm planning on making an effort for city states in the future, but it's not a one shot and done policy anymore. I think it's really only worth it as a stepladder to at least scholasticism and a commitment to a lot of city states now. It's hard to fit this many policies in a normal game, but I like it better this way. It's not a bad policy, but it just plays the way it's supposed to, as a means of getting more city state allies a whole lot easier.

Yes. Its worth it. The patronage opener in particular is very strong. It really makes you keep city states longer. Consulates really just helps you get a city state easier, but once u got them, the opener allows u to keep them. So get the opener at the very least.

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Patronage is growing on me, but I find it hard to find Policies for it. Unless you're Poland its hard to find time for more than just an opener or two before going opening tree to Rationalism.

Still, with Poland and Greece, I am more and more inclined to invest in Patronage now, whereas in Vanilla it used to very much be the tree that I took when I had nowhere else to put policies.

I usually grab the left branch of Patronage up to the +science policy. I usually skip consulates as it tends to be too slow and I am usually policy starved because I want to fill out rationalism as quickly as possible.

So no, I no longer pick that policy as it simply doesn't fit in to my playing pattern. Only time I would grab it is if I would go for a diplo victory, or possibly if I played Siam.

I usually end up allying the city states I want before consulates kicks in properly so the gold I save from it is not worth a policy...

If you open Patronage before Rationalism I'd say you need to build the forbidden Palace for it be worth while. If you don't build the FP then you can always use your World Fair buffed culture to open Patronage and unlock Consulates, which won't seem as much of a culture hit.

phillipwyllie said:

If you open Patronage before Rationalism I'd say you need to build the forbidden Palace for it be worth while. If you don't build the FP then you can always use your World Fair buffed culture to open Patronage and unlock Consulates, which won't seem as much of a culture hit.

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Question: Assuming you filled out tradition/liberty totally and have not yet reached renaissance. What policy do you pick then?

If I could take rationalism at the time I normally pick patronage I would not pick patronage at all probably.

However, on diety, the science policy giving 25% of city states actually gives a lot of science through the game.

Really, the question is what mid-game policy tree offers the best opener +1. I usually have two points for policies in between finishing my opening tree and rationalism being available.

Consulates used to be the way to go but it seems worthless to me now. Cultural centers in Aesthetics could be useful (especially if it helps get UB's like Ceilidh Hall up, I'd imagine it does), Wagon trains (going wide or building a lot of roads en route to domination victims) or Merc army in Commerce seem decent situationally, and a few points in exploration might be useful for coastal empires.

If you built The Oracle or have an obscene amount of culture, you'll end up with three extra policies. In this case, Military Tradition in Honor, scholasticism in Patronage, and a bunch of other options open up.

Personally, I also really like a hybrid left side of liberty/tradition opener before Rationalism now that consulates isn't broken. This requires building the Oracle to consistently not delay Rationalism.