That last thing is silly. There are often situations where you don't have a coastal city or a coastal target and caravans are the only option. A caravan to a capital generates about as much gold as a cargo ship to a non-capital for most of the early game.
Are there any general build order recommendations?
- Thread starter Ieldra
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That last thing is silly. There are often situations where you don't have a coastal city or a coastal target and caravans are the only option. A caravan to a capital generates about as much gold as a cargo ship to a non-capital for most of the early game.
Carl5872
Prince
You jogged my memory. In my above post, I would modify that cargo ships are first preference, followed by galleys to be able to cover the whole dotted trade line with your line of sight. If no coastal trade routes are possible, then build caravans.
Yeah, that's how I've always done it. In most games so far I never built a single caravan because almost all of my cities are on the coast, but always built cargo ships early. That's why I was surprised by your "very early caravan" build order.
The problem is that the ships need a higher tech. In games where you don't prioritize sailing (as I'm obviously going to do with the Ottomans on Small Continents and a coastal capital) the caravan might be the only option for shipping food to your second city.
BTW, a related question: I spent much of my previous game shipping production as well as food to my capital since there was no good option to have one aspect of empire development relegated to a separate city and my empire ended up super-centralized. Is shipping of production an efficient way to do things, or am I wasting something? In earlier games I often ended up purchasing the non-wonder stuff in order to have more time for the wonder-grade stuff. I'm wondering if I lose more gold by the purchasing strategy or by using my cargo ships for shipping production to my capital instead of trading with my neighbours.
Sailing is a pretty important tech in most cases even if you're not coastal because it gives you an extra trade route. On higher levels, because the AI grows faster, an early trade route can easily give you 2-3 science and 4-5 gold if you run it to an AI city, or you can get 40 influence from fulfilling a city state quest.
I play standard size map and never on Pangaea, so there aren't that many interior cities by anyone.
I have finished a grand strategy article and it's currently finished but still under private view for the future BNW war academy. It will replace the current 3 cities opening. It will include every decisions related to the ''how'', ''when'' and ''why''.
It's 3x bigger than the current strategy with much more particularities. See you later with it!
It's 3x bigger than the current strategy with much more particularities. See you later with it!
Spoiler :
@Calouste:
I play on "Small Continents" maps so I always research Sailing fairly early, and yes, I did notice the importance of trade routes. So much, in fact, that I always resent not getting a wonder that gives me an extra one. In my current game (Emperor level) I got some science for a while as well.
My question was more about how to use trade routes most efficiently: Shipping food to a city appears to be best for a time to make the city functional, but later: use it as a generator for gold, food or production? Assuming no special circumstances apply like spreading religion or getting the tourism bonus.
@Tabarnak:
Looking forward to reading your article!
I play on "Small Continents" maps so I always research Sailing fairly early, and yes, I did notice the importance of trade routes. So much, in fact, that I always resent not getting a wonder that gives me an extra one. In my current game (Emperor level) I got some science for a while as well.
My question was more about how to use trade routes most efficiently: Shipping food to a city appears to be best for a time to make the city functional, but later: use it as a generator for gold, food or production? Assuming no special circumstances apply like spreading religion or getting the tourism bonus.
@Tabarnak:
Looking forward to reading your article!
What to do with trade routes later is really an "it depends" question. If you get bonuses to external trade routes (Morocco, Germany, Arabia, Portugal, certain policies), use them for that. If you want to get some Renaissance and later wonders up, run production routes to your best production city. If you want a new city to grow quick, use it for food. But in the late game you can get 30+ gpt per trade route, so you mostly want to use them for that.
I think you are lagging with culture/social policies way to much with this strategy.
My general order:
- scout
- monument
- nuclear bomb (may require some time)
However:
- with Maya I immediately go to Pottery and build Pyramid
- with Shoshone I spam more Scouts (Pathfinders)
- with Aztec I build Jaguar instead of Scout (I love these guys)
- with Ethiopia I cannot imagine anyone building anything other than Stele right in the beginning...
Memoryjar
Emperor
I'm not super experienced with Marathon, but I do play it on deity and I have a feeling the significance of your starting location is increased compared to quicker games.
If you have the food and production for your capital right from the start, you can spam a couple of warriors and then archers before you do your buildings. Culture farming with raging barbs and honor 1 will then be very useful.
Forest tiles near your capital will be truly invaluable and if you get any forest you can do without, get the first worker out as soon as ever possible. Chopping up forest on top of plantation luxuries, I was able to get 6 troops out before second tier techs were ready, and that allowed for a lot of culture and free workers.
If you get a bad start and there's and aggressive civ or two right next to you, I really feel like marathon is harder and not easier than standard. For a good start it'll be easier I imagine.
If you have the food and production for your capital right from the start, you can spam a couple of warriors and then archers before you do your buildings. Culture farming with raging barbs and honor 1 will then be very useful.
Forest tiles near your capital will be truly invaluable and if you get any forest you can do without, get the first worker out as soon as ever possible. Chopping up forest on top of plantation luxuries, I was able to get 6 troops out before second tier techs were ready, and that allowed for a lot of culture and free workers.
If you get a bad start and there's and aggressive civ or two right next to you, I really feel like marathon is harder and not easier than standard. For a good start it'll be easier I imagine.
Flash1
Prince
How do balance expansion, Pop growth, gold, and happiness in tight land area knowing that war penalties kill your diplomacy?
I play with ruins off, and start with warrior > shrine > granary or worker depending on resources.
I don't bother building monuments and take legalism for my second policy.
In other cities, I build library > granary > watermill if riverside.
I don't bother building monuments and take legalism for my second policy.
In other cities, I build library > granary > watermill if riverside.
I always play on Immortal, normal speed, normal map size. Map size and civs each time different.
I dont have a fixed build order, which I think is a great compliment for Firaxis, since any must-have-built would be a non-choice.
USUALLY I start with a scout and then decide depending on my civ and map how my choices will be early game: Will I go wide with liberty, then honor and conquer em all? Wide and Piety if i want to go religious? Or Tradition 4-5 city built?
So, AFTER my first scout, I usually built either a monument or a worker, depending on what I aint getting later on. Depending on barbarian activity, I know build warriors and archers, maybe combined with a dip in honor, to get me some culture and do some quests. If I want an religion, or maybe even just a pantheon (to help my early game) I hurry a shrine in between. From then on there is nearly no set buildorder. And I like it that way
There are two exceptions when I dont build Scout first: first one is being on an Island, where I usually go warrior instead, second exception is, when I see that my capital is a nice place to churn out some wonders, I go worker first. TWICE in a of games I'v even managed to get the GL with worker-first
I dont have a fixed build order, which I think is a great compliment for Firaxis, since any must-have-built would be a non-choice.
USUALLY I start with a scout and then decide depending on my civ and map how my choices will be early game: Will I go wide with liberty, then honor and conquer em all? Wide and Piety if i want to go religious? Or Tradition 4-5 city built?
So, AFTER my first scout, I usually built either a monument or a worker, depending on what I aint getting later on. Depending on barbarian activity, I know build warriors and archers, maybe combined with a dip in honor, to get me some culture and do some quests. If I want an religion, or maybe even just a pantheon (to help my early game) I hurry a shrine in between. From then on there is nearly no set buildorder. And I like it that way
There are two exceptions when I dont build Scout first: first one is being on an Island, where I usually go warrior instead, second exception is, when I see that my capital is a nice place to churn out some wonders, I go worker first. TWICE in a of games I'v even managed to get the GL with worker-first
I always play on Immortal, normal speed, normal map size. Map size and civs each time different.
I dont have a fixed build order, which I think is a great compliment for Firaxis, since any must-have-built would be a non-choice.
USUALLY I start with a scout and then decide depending on my civ and map how my choices will be early game: Will I go wide with liberty, then honor and conquer em all? Wide and Piety if i want to go religious? Or Tradition 4-5 city built?
So, AFTER my first scout, I usually built either a monument or a worker, depending on what I aint getting later on. Depending on barbarian activity, I know build warriors and archers, maybe combined with a dip in honor, to get me some culture and do some quests. If I want an religion, or maybe even just a pantheon (to help my early game) I hurry a shrine in between. From then on there is nearly no set buildorder. And I like it that way
There are two exceptions when I dont build Scout first: first one is being on an Island, where I usually go warrior instead, second exception is, when I see that my capital is a nice place to churn out some wonders, I go worker first. TWICE in a of games I'v even managed to get the GL with worker-first
Third exception I would say is Aztecs. Jaguars are pretty decent at scouting and great at barb hunting.
TheologiaCrucis
Warlord
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2014
- Messages
- 107
The main factor I take into consideration is how fast my capitol is growing.
If I have wheat in my capitol, I will probably build a granary and a library before I build my first settler to get a big science boost.
Also, if my capitol's pop is going to grow in 1 turn, that's not the time to start working on a settler. Better to build something else in the meantime and grow 1 pop. It seems to me that if the turns for my city's population to grow is shorter than the turns it would take to actually build the settler, it would be better to wait and grow 1 pop. At least in the beginning, when every single extra food and hammer counts.
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