Modern American Civil War Scenario feedback.

I am currently beta-testing a scenario that pits the United States in a Civil War in the modern day. I am looking for input on how this should be set up - All feedback is welcome!

EDIT: All are now welcome to beta test, please respond in this thread or by pm if you are interested in helping me beta test this scenario!

Here's what I have so far:

~ The map is 130x130 if I recall correctly, and it consists of North America and part of Central America.

~ Civs are derived from current Countries in the Northern Americas.
EDIT:...I basically did the following:
*USA is now mainland USA (New England, Midwest, Florida & Puerto Rico), the Separatists (basically the "South" or SE states), Mountain Union (MT, ID, WY, CO, UT), Republic of Alaska, Republic of Texas (includes OK & KA), and Republic of California (includes OR, AZ, WA, NV, NM).
*Canada, due to lack of US security aid & on-going public polls in Quebec, is now Canada (ON & West), Republic of Quebec, and the Maritime Union (territories east of Quebec).
*Also, as is - are Mexico, Cuba, Guatemala, Nicaragua, Honduras, Jamaica, the Dominican, and Haiti.

~In-game cities are based on actual states, or parts of current territories, and are set in the late Industrial or early Modern Ages (based on Civ).

The only change is that major units (ie - tanks, bombers, etc) now require a third resource, hopefully emphasing the need for trade - which would be a struggle in such a real scenario.

I would appreciate any input on gameplay or realism.

thx!

Current version is 0.9 (beta) Will release at v1.0!

I can't help with the politics, as I'm not american. But remember that Civ (Conquests hopefully) can have a max of 31 countries. So you could make more states.

This might come into something fun, especially with the map not being too large. You dpn't have to add many units either, as every american state uses the same units.

US North- United States of America
US South- Confederate States of America, Federal Republic of America
Texas- Republic of Texas, Gulf Republic, Texan Free State
California- Union of Western States, Bear Flag Republic, People's Republic of California
Quebec- Quebec, Free Republic of Quebec
West Canada- Canada, Union of Western Canada

In Central America and Caribbean, I'd break it down like this:

-Mexico (+ Belize)
-Guatemala
-El Salvador (+ Honduras)
-Nicaragua
-Costa Rica
-Panama
-Cuba
-Bahamas
-Jamaica
-Haiti
-Dominican Republic
-United Kingdom (British islands like Grand Cayman, UK Virgin Islands, etc)
-France (French islands like Guadeloupe, Martinique, etc)
-Netherlands (Dutch islands like Aruba, the Dutch Antilles, etc)

While I agree that dividing the Central American and Caribean civs would make them weak, I think that the volatile climate created in these regions by the large number of small civs is exactly what would make this scenario fun. The goal as a large power would be to exert as much influence as you can over the weaker states; as a small civ, it would be to unify your neighbors under your banner to compete with the larger, established powers.

I thought about doing a mod like this and I had these ideas too:

Breaking the larger states into separtes civs (Texas, Calif, NY/New England/ Illinois Florida/South)

still have a US that has DC but a lot of troops located at major base locations. (their gol is to restablish the union)

Also had political parties as a filler with a story line that heavily Republican or DEmocrat states had the party leadership seize control of cities. They would have an improvent called Party HQ that would produces Party Activists (but not have many other units)

So the big states would be independent and deal with their own politics, The US trying to reform and then parties trying to forge either a Democrat or Republican state (I was goint to take party symbols and make leaderheads, I was going to have the greens too).

the idea sounds kinda cool... you could include the french part of New Brunswick with Quebec... they're not separatist at all... but they neighbour Quebec... they're french... maybe Quebec would "liberate" them!! And Quebec would definitely take Labrador... the atlantic provinces would be cut off from the rest of Canada and would feel huge pressure from Quebec. Quebec probably wouldn't take them over... other than the northern part of New Brunswick.. which it borders anyway....Moncton is the main french city in New Brunswick... you should make the Atlantic provinces their own country... they would be small, low population... an easy target for Quebec

the french in Quebec are called "Quebecois"

You might also want to think about an independant Alaska (they already have a relatively strong independance party), and perhaps free "Cascadia" (union of oregon and wash.). You could also have New England as an independant country of the "United States" and have the US civ simply be a patch work of cities and states around the country that stay loyal. If you want to break Canada up any futher, I would suggest making British Columbia independant. Also for Mexico, north(northern states)/south(basicly mexico city) divide.

EDit: I forgot to mention the Mormon nation of Deserate(sp?) in Utah as a possibility also.

There are plunty of ways to do a US "civil war" scenario, just pick the one you think will be most fun for everyone. good luck

For the purposes of this scenario, I don't think just splitting the US into 6 or 7 different regions and having them fight has much of a point, as that would be more along the lines of an alternate history thing than a US civil war taking place in the modern era.

To make it realistic, and fit into the modern world better, and most of all, without making the whole thing look like a fantasy scenario, I would suggest having the US split between two main factions, who have disagreed about US policies to the point where they start war for control over America (pro and anti-war, for example). The war may have been finally triggered by an event that one of the sides simply could not stand (maybee Bush got re-elected and everyone anti-bush are so fed up they try to take him and his followers down by force)
{that's a possible storyline, anyway}

Besides those two, there could be one, and if necessary, two parts of America that for whatever reason (could be pro-independance groups take power, or that they don't want to take part in the current conflict) ,break from the Union. I would suggest California, or possibly an amalgam of a few western states.

As for Canada, if you wanted to break them apart, I would say leave Canada as such except make Quebec independant. The atlantic provinces should still remain part of Canada, just because the two halfs are seperated by land, does not mean one will just decide to break from confederation.
Much more likely, Western and Eastern halfs of Canada would be fighting to return Quebec to Canada and restore that land between them.

It must be remembered, however, that only about 50% of Quebecois want independance from Canada, so I think Quebec breaking away would only be succesfull if Quebec and the rest of Canada have very different oppinions on what to do about the US tearing itself apart. (one side might be in support of aiding a particular side, or restoring the US, or even in annexing parts, who knows?)

After that, Mexico should stay Mexico, but they should be at war with whoever owns the southwestern US (so they can take it back for themselves).

Central America should be unified. (I doubt they'd really do that, but there isn't much point in having a whole bunch of really small, really weak civs game-wise)

Cuba as Cuba, maybee unite the rest of the Carribean for similar reasons as Central America (except for Puerto Rico, which should go to the U.S., and Turks and Caicos Islands, which should go to Canada [the Turks and Caicoans are strongly in favour of becoming part of Canada, so for this scenario, why not?])

My thoughts, anyway. Hope they help.

The adjective for people from Quebec would be Quebecois if I'm not mistaken.
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Okay, the scenario is in early beta.

130x130 map of North America

Civs:
Remaining USA
Southern States (still need an official name)
Republic of Texas
Republic of California
Montana/Mountain States (need name)
Republic of Alaska
Canada
Republic of Quebec
Arcadian Isles (eastern canada)
Mexico
3 Central American countries
3 Caribbean countries (including Cuba)

2005 start time, weekly turns (limit undecided, but likely 2-5 years)

Resources are more needed (ie - tanks now also require iron to build)

Civs start in late Industrial Age to mid Modern Age (based on actual tech knowledge)

Money is tight at first to reflect mass trade interruption in such an event.

Units may be modified, but so far they are as is. If anything, I would maybe rename the Panzer to have it reflect a tank somewhere between the Tank & Modern Armor units, (etc for air, sea).

If anyone has any other suggestions, or would like to help test, let me know. It's a smaller scenario and plays well, but needs tweaking. thx.

nice to see you're making progress...

any particular reason for the name "Arcadian Isles" for eastern canada? just wondering if you've mixed it with "Acadia", the name for the french part of New Brunswick, and "Acadians", the people (of french origin) who live in that region.... If you want to name the entire region of eastern Canada i would suggest simply "the maritime republic" or "the atlantic republic" or "the maritimes" or "the maritime alliance" or something like that... "Arcadian isles" seems odd, unless you have a specific reason for it.

I agree that it would be basically a two fold division pro/anti-DC but the anti-DC groups would probably fracture.

The 'rationale' for such mught be a high level terrorist attack ... leading to Military Law..Leading to ..Not exactly Secession from the Union but a rejection of 'Current Federal authority' as unconstitutional. (various states reject the full military law, some form into groups but are overall unable to agree)

If you want to model the secession portion, start each US faction off with significant federal units in their territory...but with significant units of their own.. particularly parisan type units (Invisible/Hidden Nationality) for pillaging...which would be spread throughout an area rather than nicely concentrated along state lines

The Remaining US should also have substantial forces at both edges of the map in Transports.. (As I imagine troops might be pulled out of S. Korea/Germany.)


As for the Factions
California
Texas
Alaska
Florida
NorthWest (Oregon, Washington)
Mountain North (Montana, Dakotas, Idaho, Wyoming)
SouthWest (Arizona, Nevada,Utah, New Mexico, Colorado)
South (about the same as the Confederacy)
New England (every state up to NY)
Central (Michigan to Missouri)
Remaining US (essentially NY to DC.. and west to Ohio)

You could probably combine some of those to make larger blocks, and shift the borders (ie move Nevada into California's block)


Canadian Factions

West
Central (Remaining) Canada
Quebec
Maritimes

some could be combined (although Quebec would be the least likely to join with any others)

Latin American Countries should stay Seperate... they provide a way for territory to be occupied but not used by a major power.

I don't Imagine Mexico would get that active unless they got some degree of Backing, ie ally/cooperate with one of the break off factions.

Some Modifications to the Governments might be necessary too. (to allow for the finer distinctions in various Types of 'Republics'.. as well as Confederacies, etc.)


For a more 'orderly' Civil War, a East v. West split might be a predominating factor, with the 'West' being a 'Confederacy', ie more losely Organized.

This might be more Interesting as other players could come on the stage.. Blockades could be Very usefull if there were little portions of the Outside world that held key resources.

Also in an East v. West, it is conceivable that Nukes could eventually enter in.. (once the war got to the Total Stage) (although more likely the 'Rebels' getting Nukes would allow the formation of a 'U.N.' ie a forced Diplomatic Negotiation)

If you do combine Belize with a country it should be Jamaica because they both were once British and have close ties with the UK.

If I would create such a scenario this is what I'd do:

United States of America
Federal Republic of America
Free Texan State
Republic of California
Free Massachusetts (or New England)
Republic of Cascadia
Free Alaska
Arcadian Union
Canada
Quebec
México
etc. etc.

I chose Massachusetts to be another civ because it is rather liberal and is the state which the highest percentage of Green Party members in office.

You might make a free Oklahoma (aka Sequoyah) or at least Native American partisans there.

Very interesting ideas. I can't wait to see it finished. Good luck!

"Maritime Isles" was the first name for what the people in the Off-Topic Area of these forums recommended I change to "Acadian Isles." I still like Maritime myself & will likely change it back. I used presidential election maps from the last half-dozen US elections to decipher which states were strong in their political stances and which were on the fence. That easily divided the map into what is shown here:


That puts the total to 16 or 17 Civs in the game. That should keep all satisfied since the better players will have quite the challenge starting in the Caribbean or Central America, while others can choose one of the larger factions in the US & Canada.

At this point (after extensive encyclopedia research) I am working on the placing of resources accurately, but still strategically - to reflect the disruption of trade in the region. I am still up-in-arms about unit use & placement. Suggestions welcome.

Project now in open beta, please read initial post in this thread for updated info!

The C3C scenario this thread was based on is now available in a basic version in the Creation & Customization: Completed Scenarios section of these forums - for those interested:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=89802

Thanks to all who assisted me in the process!