SGOTM8 - jeffelammar

Welcome to your game thread. Please use it and subscribe to it. Please also subscribe to the Maintenance Thread for this game here, where teams and staff may post non-spoiler information of general interest. I hope you enjoy the game.

The starting saves will become available on the SGOTM Progress and Results page on August 5, midnight, server local time.

Thanks go to Gyathaar for coming up with the variant and developing the map.

The variant is Hydrophobic Conquest. You are America, your goal is to conquer your archipelago world, and you are afraid of water.

The rules are simple:

1. You will build no boats. Seaborne units are all disabled for America.
3. You must win by Conquest. America must be the only civ standing at the end of your game.
4. Red and Gold Laurels will be awarded respectively to the members of the C3C and Classic teams achieving the fastest conquests.
5. PTW and Vanilla teams are not permitted to leader rush Great Wonders before 1000 BC in this game

Here's the start:

Map Parameters
Playable Civ - America
Opponents - Six, preselected
World size - 80 wide by 80 high. (Small)
Difficulty - Emperor
Landform - Archipelago
Barbarians - Raging

The map is handbuilt, and therefore may not have a standard configuration.

Game mods:
- America can't build boats. The AI can.
- All victory conditions are available except Diplomatic and Spaceship.
- Settlers, workers, scouts, explorers, leaders, cruise missiles and tactical nukes can be loaded into helicopters.
- A side effect is AIs can load tactical nukes into any boat with transport capacity ... so beware
- Bombers have lethal sea bombard only (lethal land bombard removed)
- Cruise missiles, stealth bombers and F-15 have both lethal sea and land bombard.

Additional change:
- C3C will use the same contact and map trading rules as Classic. Contacts can be traded between two civs when one of them knows Writing. Maps can be traded between two civs when one of them knows MapMaking.

The SGOTM Mediterranean resources are included in this game. If you have played SGOTM 7 then you will be ready. If not you may need to download and unzip a small graphics mod pack. Vanilla/Mac players need to install the GOTM mods. The best way to achieve this is to use the relevant All-in-one GOTM Installer for your OS, linked in my signature.

Please visit the following links to ensure that you are adequately prepared for this game. Vanilla players in particular should understand the late-game equalisation modifications that we don't often have to worry about.

The GOTM Reference Thread.
SGOTM Reference Thread.

Notes:

A. The Classic (Play the World and vanilla 1.29) versions of Civ3 AND Conquests version 1.22 (C3C) are all supported in this game. Because of the different game play, Classic and C3C teams will play for separate awards.
B. All teams must play the sponsored variant.
C. You MUST play from the start file assigned to your team. All saved game files uploaded to the server are parsed through software that extracts and archives data about your save, including reload count for each turn set.

As I just happen to be checking on SGOTM at the right moment, I'll be the first to check in on this one.

I guess our plan will be something like, explore & expand to fill all available land on our island then build up a small military and kill off any neighbors filling in their land. Though keeping at least one around might allow for accelerated off island contacts. It might be a good idea to get into early wars with off island AI to try for cities as peace settlements.

As far as military goes, there's really not much reason to stockpile anything, as this game will probably be won with tanks and beyond. As far as wonders go, maybe the Great Library to allow for some cash stockpiling and Leo's for cheap upgrades (tanks to MA & the spear->MI chain) are the only ones that make any sense. Being on an archipelago negates the value of the Pyramids, Temple of Artemis and what little value the Great Wall had. If we happen to have Ivory, The Statue of Zeus would be nice.

Just a scheduling note, I'll be out of contact from September 2nd-10th on a family vacation.

Just checking in... New to SGOTM, hope to not screw up to much.

Honnored to be part of the team....

Alrighty, I'll dump my initial thoughts.

There seem to be a a couple of ways to get as quick a conquest victory as possible.
1. Fast Tech Rate: I think it would be a good idea to read some of the reports in the HOF that get diplomatic and space victories very early.
- This is the main key. We will need to do this. Once we get Airports and Choppers we'll be set.
- Give the AI gifts of tech to guide their research.

2. Take as much territory as possible before then.
- Try to get cities in peace deals. (Need a decent military to have a shot at this)

3. Take our home landmass ASAP. (duh)

@namliam - Welcome to the team. Don't worry too much about screwing up. We don't condemn mistakes. The only time I get upset is when someone doesn't learn from the mistakes. So, don't make the same mistake twice

more later.

Welcome namliaM! You look like you did a solid job as a micromanager in Bede's training game which is very important on this team. As I, you will learn much.

This will be very fun to play. I've never used a paratrooper before and maybe we'll get to see one jump.

My thoughts are similar to Jeff's on tech pace and making a beeline for early builds of libs and unis looks to be a major priority to accelerate that pace.

I am gone tomorrow Aug. 3rd through Saturday Aug. 6th.

I'm here.

It seems obvious that we need to push the tech pace as fast as possible. I'm not very good at trading techs to the AI, but we'll need to hurry everyone along for a while. We need to get to republic and literature ASAP, and we'll want to pick up as many techs as we can without researching them - getting philosophy first and building TOE need to be priorities.

I think that taking our home landmass may be optimistic. I kind of expect that we'll be alone, to help get us off to a slow start. Despite being afraid of the water, we'll want to work lots of coastal tiles for the commerce.

Getting in wars to get cities in peace deals seems like a good idea to me. If we have neighbors, we should let them expand to some off-island cities before we declare on them, so that we can take these cities. For civs who aren't on our landmass, it will be tricky getting them beaten down enough to give us cities. I am wondering if it would be worthwhile to give them a couple of cities just before we declare war. Retaking them would hopefully be enough of a setback to gain us some other cities. I haven't gotten around to testing this out though.

If we get cities on other islands, there will be a trade-off between protecting these cities and conquering these islands on the one hand and pushing the tech pace on the other hand, as we'll need cash for both. However, every island we have a city on is one that can be conquered as soon as we have airports, which could be a long time before we get helicopters. I think we'll want to head for flight quickly and trade ourselves up the lower part of the IA tech tree.

@namliaM: Welcome. As jeff said, we encourage new and different mistakes here. This will be a strange variant for most, if not all, of us, so we'll probably find lots of things to learn.

In regards to opening steps... and some maths for the future...

Thats sheep right? To our E... Sheep = cow IIRC, giving +2f+1s+1c.

High food start! with 7 flood plains visible and possibly more due NW.... Probably atleast 2 more... I will bet one of these nearby desert will have Oil for the choppers

But lowish on shields.... Moving 1 NW will
1) Leave the sheep in range (after expansion) for a nice 3/3 or 4/2 tile after depo
2) Put the lake not in the radius, possibly allowing for another city on that (fresh water!) lake...
3) Put the mountain into the radius

By moving we lose the FP, 1 sea, 1 grass (potiential BG?) , 1 Lake and 2 plains (as well as 2 forrest chops). The mined BG+ 2 mined Plains will give a 6 shield total, possibly only 5 if not a BG.

Gaining 1 hill, 1 mountain, 2fp, 1 dessert and 1 plain. Mined Hill+mined Mountain. That 6 allready, adding the mined Desert and plain for 4 more. The grand total of 10.

We will be losing 2 chops for WDC, but I think we will be gaining some crucial shields in the long run...
We would potentially be 'losing' 6 shields and gaining 10. Accounting for the loss of the chops... Thats a loss of 20 shields which we will make up in no time....
Plus we will get some extra commerce from them flood plains as they are river side... AND keep the 'cow' in the radius as well. But we will not be able to use it till after culture expansion.

At pop 12 (not in depo):
+F +S +C
02 01 02 Base
01 03 02 Mined Hill
00 03 01 Mined Mountain
01 02 02 Mined Plain (on river)
01 02 01 Mined Plain
01 02 01 Mined plain
00 02 01 Mined desert
00 02 01 Mined desert
04 02 02 Irrigated sheep
02 01 02 Irrigated Plain (on river)
04 00 02 Irrigated FP
04 00 02 Irrigated FP
04 00 02 Irrigated FP
-- -- --
24 20 21

Adding in 12 commerce bonus (or does the base get that bonus as well?) in Republic, thats a nice capitol.
But it will not be able to be a settler factory I think... Not while in Depo...
Once out of depo its easily accomplished with using The base (2/1) 1 FP(4/0), Irr sheep (4/2), mined hill (1/3) and 2 Irrigated Plains (2/1). Thats enough for 5fpt and 30 shields in 4 turns.
Start at size 4
4 Base+FP+Sheep+Hill+Plain = 7
4.5 +8 shields = 15 (bonus shield of the plain)
5 +8 shields = 23 (added 1 plain)
5.5 +9 shields = 32 => And repeat

This would be (I think) my opening turns
T01 Step Settler (NW), step worker (SW)
T02 Found WDC, Irrigate
…
T06 8 food in the bin, +3fpt now, Road
….
T09 17 food in the bin, Worker E
T10 Grow to POP 2, Irrigate => 10 shields in the bin (warrior?)
T11 Expand borders. Work FP + Sheep (3f3s)
…
T14 Worker NE ( I think, or should we road first? )
T15 Irrigate Sheep
T16 Grow POP 3, work FP + Sheep + Unroaded, Irrigated Plain for 4f/4s
T19 Road sheep, At + 4f/4s

Adding another irrigated plain and an irrigated flood plain would make WDC the perfect 5f/5s worker factory at pop 5 while in Depo.

Or we could let WDC grow to size 9 and work like this
+F +S +C
02 01 02 Base
01 02 02 Mined Hill
01 02 01 Mined Plain
03 02 02 Irrigated sheep
02 01 02 Irrigated Plain (on river)
02 01 02 Irrigated Plain (on river)
02 01 01 Irrigated Plain
03 00 02 Irrigated FP
03 00 02 Irrigated FP
03 00 02 Irrigated FP
-- -- --
22 10 18

For 4f/10s with a worker on growth or so... Would also be nice... Maybe let it grow to size 10 to take in an extra Irrigate plain to build a settler last 3 turns.
Size 9 is nice to do Horse (3) - worker (1) (=> Drop to size 8, but Grow to size 9 in 1 for 10 shields again)
Followed by Horse (3) - Spear/Archer (2) - Worker (1) => For a total of 10 turns and Restart

No waste here...

Or change the second cycle ....
Horse (3) - worker (1) (=> Drop to size 8, but Grow to size 9 in 1 for 10 shields again)
Horse (3) - Horse (3) -Grow- Worker (1)
Horse (3) - Worker (1) -Grow and Restart

Still only 1 shield loss here... But no need for the 20 shield unit inbetween.
Or instead of adding the irrigated plain we can add a coastal tile for no shield loss IF WDC has a Harbor allready. But it seems a waste to put in a harbor just for that purpose.

Starting again on size 9, but ending on a settler would mean (adding an FP on growth to 10) :
Horse (3) -Horse (2 -Grow here- + 1) -Settler (3) - Grow => For total of 9 turns and Restart.

This does not waste any shields, but for having the extra FP in the 4 turns at size 10 are be at +6f we will waste 4 food.

Or we can keep it at +4f and do a simular switch as to the worker adding in a second and third cycle.

Offcourse I dont really think WDC will grow to size 9 in Depo, so at size 9 out of depo:
+F +S +C
02 01 02 Base
01 03 02 Mined Hill
00 03 01 Mined Mountain
01 02 02 Mined Plain (on river)
01 02 02 Mined Plain (on river)
01 02 01 Mined Plain
04 02 02 Irrigated sheep
04 00 02 Irrigated FP
04 00 02 Irrigated FP
04 00 02 Irrigated FP
-- -- --
22 15 18

A nice Horse-Horse-Worker combo at 4f/15s per turn, offcourse wasting 5 shield on the worker.

Or at size 10 for an extra commerce
+F +S +C
02 01 02 Base
01 03 02 Mined Hill
00 03 01 Mined Mountain
01 02 02 Mined Plain (on river)
00 02 01 Mined desert
00 02 01 Mined desert
04 02 02 Irrigated sheep
04 00 02 Irrigated FP
04 00 02 Irrigated FP
04 00 02 Irrigated FP
04 00 02 Irrigated FP
-- -- --
24 15 19

This I think would call for a cycle of 4 horses-1 settler for a total of 10 turns. Adding in and extra Irrigated Plain for the 5 turns on size 11. Generating a total of 5 shields waste.

OR we could add a mined Plain instead of the Mined desert:
+F +S +C
02 01 02 Base
04 02 02 Irrigated sheep
01 03 02 Mined Hill
00 03 01 Mined Mountain
01 02 02 Mined Plain (on river)
01 02 02 Mined Plain (on river)
00 02 01 Mined desert
04 00 02 Irrigated FP
04 00 02 Irrigated FP
04 00 02 Irrigated FP
04 00 02 Irrigated FP
-- -- --
25 15 20
For a "perfect" 5f-15s setup. Horse (2)-Horse (2) - Grow -Horse (2) -Settler (2)
Adding an Irrigated Plain for size 11. Again causing a 5 shield waste...

Which one is better, that depends on the moment for .... in 80 turns the 8 turn will have produced 30 horses and 10 settlers.
The 10 turn cycle will have produced 32 horses and 8 Settlers
OK 80 turns is a bit long to be on Horses.... and settlers but you never know... At 8 turn research... thats 10 techs.
We start with pots and Masonry I think. Beeline to Republic. Beeline to HBR.
Leaves about 14 or so techs (includint optionals) left to research toward Chivalry... It might fit LOL...

Just a little homework if we do choose to move the settler. There are a couple of things uncertain (to me) if we settle on the spot...
1) Do we get a shield bonus in the base (at any time) for beeing on the hill?
I do not believe so
2) Is there a BG hidden under that forrest?

Assuming there is a BG and no bonus in the base. And we mine everything other than the FPs.
Settling on the spot means no more than 16 shields in WDC ever....

Researching:
Do we plan to go Beeline to Republic? Or Monarchy?
Do we stand a chance at one of the famous gov. slingshots? Republic or Monarchy?

Lastly, Sorry for such a long post....

namliaM said:

In regards to opening steps... and some maths for the future...

Thats sheep right? To our E... Sheep = cow IIRC, giving +2f+1s+1c.

Click to expand...

Unfortunately, that is not sheep. It is Lambs (+2f)

namliaM said:

But lowish on shields.... Moving 1 NW will...

Click to expand...

This is actually something I always agonize over (The starting moves).
I won't have a chance to run the numbers till tonight at the earliest.
I'd also like to see what it looks like if we move SE. That gets us
3 FP ( +3 food in desp)
1 Lamb Plain (+1 food in desp)
1 hill
1 mountain.
a bunch of Grassland forests to chop.

To me the main disad there is the fact it moves us farther from the center of the map. Not really sure if that matters though.

I'd like to see the pros and cons for the possible moves. I really like getting off the hill since we will need its shields in the long run.

namliaM said:

Researching:
Do we plan to go Beeline to Republic? Or Monarchy?
Do we stand a chance at one of the famous gov. slingshots? Republic or Monarchy?

Click to expand...

1. Republic is the Government for us. We need to push the tech envelope, will want to cash rush in any city that is off our island, and won't need major military till we can cross water. All of these make the Commerce bonus of Republic a must.
2. The slingshots will really depend on if we can meet other Civs. The AI could very well beat us to Philosophy if we are alone and have to wait for someone else to get Map Making before we meet them.

I have a lot more thoughts, but I'm out of time now.

My opening game thoughts:

Washington build orders:
Thinking that as we are Expansionists, another scout (maybe 2) should be the first build then maybe a settler before a granary and then settlers from Washington. Also since we are Industrious, we'll be able to get by with less than the usual number of workers (and we could be getting some from huts). As for moving the settler, I'd like to have that hill available once we're out of Despotism, so yes. We'll need to use the luxury slider often as with only a single content face (emperor) and lots of food we'll probably grow to riot state quickly. If south is considered on fresh water (no aqueduct) then that tile is the least valuable around the starting point and deserves some consideration.

Exploration:
We won't be getting settlers from huts (workers instead), . We should try to take grab what little value the expansionist trait has on this type of map (Archi & Small) to pop as many huts as possible.

Research:
As I see it, we have a pair of research options:
1. Go the Alphabet->Writing->CoL->Philo path hoping for the slignshot to Republic
Or
2. Research the cheapies like CB, WC & Myst hoping to pop the others from huts

I tend to play conservative, so I'd vote for #1 to give us the best shot at the slingshot and head towards literature at the same time.

Government:
I agree with Republic (with maybe a late game switch to communism is war weariness becomes a problem).

AA Wonders:
With it being probably that we are on a smallish land mass, Pyramids, Great Wall & ToA are a waste. Without boats so is Great Lighthouse. Colossus would be nice, but the research to BW is unlikely to get us there in time. I don't see any use for MoM, HG or Oracle. So unless there's nearby Ivory (SoZ, which would be nice), only the Great Library is desirable. Sometimes the AI will bypass literature and make this one available. Let's keep our options open on this.

Military:
Early game, little or none (though raging barbs, might call for a couple of archers). I would tend to have small wars using a stack of attackers (10 horse/sword) to take a couple of cities and then go for peace (rinse & repeat). Most of the AA & MA units (except for the Spear-MI path) will be obsolete, by the time we reach the main period of war.

One final thought:
I'm thinking that the team that wins this game is going to do it in the Middle Ages, by conquering the homeland and then using off island peace settlements to acquire bases on the remote locations and cash rushing units to conquer those locations. I don't have much expierence in fighting faux wars, so I'll defer to those who do as to the planning and execution of that strategy. The game designers set this one up with the hope to get to helicopters, paratroopers & F-15's, but knowing the players in SGOTM, some will find a way to get it done sooner.

jeffelammar said:

Unfortunately, that is not sheep. It is Lambs (+2f)

Click to expand...

Well atleast the food doesnt change.... The shields do ... unfortunatly...

jeffelammar said:

This is actually something I always agonize over (The starting moves).
I won't have a chance to run the numbers till tonight at the earliest.
I'd also like to see what it looks like if we move SE. That gets us
3 FP ( +3 food in desp)
1 Lamb Plain (+1 food in desp)
1 hill
1 mountain.
a bunch of Grassland forests to chop.

Click to expand...

What mountain? I considered moving SE for the chops, but I think no mountian.... Or am I missing something?

jeffelammar said:

I have a lot more thoughts, but I'm out of time now.

Click to expand...

Waiting in revelation...

namliaM said:

What mountain? I considered moving SE for the chops, but I think no mountian.... Or am I missing something?

Click to expand...

Yep, you're right, I messed up. The mountain would still be out of reach...

I think a good idea might be to build up a singe powerful commerce city. If things go as I expect, this will be a builder game, so perhaps we can snag several complementary wonders for the big city. (

Wonder wise in the big cityI think the useful ones would be
1. Colossus - Big - extra commece in either Washington or a rank 1 city.
2. Mauseuleum or Hanging Gardens - would allow the city to be big without needing high luxury tax.
3. Copernicus/Newton
4. Shakespeare - if someone else researches it for us, and it doesn't impact newton (Doubtful though)

Other wonders that I would like if we can
1. Leo's upgrades are nice...
2. Sun Tsu - Since the most likely scenario is to build units at home and airlift them abroad, I think that free barracks would be nice (not necessary though)
3. JS Bach at home, again I am trying to max out happiness at home without lux tax.
4. Adam Smith's - always a nice bonus, less so on the small world though.

I see no value to
Great Wall, Lighthouse, Temple of Artemis, Oracle, Magellans

I don't see much use for SoZ or Knight's Templar, since their units would not be very useful in an IA war, and we'll have no way to get them to other islands while they are not effective.

The only wonders that I think we absolutely want are Colossus/Copernicus/Newton. Those are the ones that directly help us with the tech race.

One other note. I would actually be surprised if any team gets a Middle Age conquest. Getting 2 or 3 AIs by getting a city and then taking the land mass may be possible, and it would be a great head start, but to actually get the conquest, we will need to be able to hop islands. I very much doubt this will happen before choppers.

Hey all, sorry to all that I never checked in to make a decision earlier, especially sorry Whomp that I ignored your PM. I meant to give a definitive yes or no early on, but I was on the fence and kept putting the decision off, until I finally forgot about it altogether. Anyway, best of luck to the team, and hopefully with me out of the way this one game will belong to team jeffelammar.

bed_head7 said:

Hey all, sorry to all that I never checked in to make a decision earlier, especially sorry Whomp that I ignored your PM. I meant to give a definitive yes or no early on, but I was on the fence and kept putting the decision off, until I finally forgot about it altogether. Anyway, best of luck to the team, and hopefully with me out of the way this one game will belong to team jeffelammar.

Click to expand...

Sorry to hear that man. I was shocked when the rosters were listed and I didn't see you on there. I don't know if it's legal (probably not if you've already read other team threads), but If you want to hang out as an advisor, that would be great.

The only problem with going for Colossus is having to research BW. If we are able to get BW in a trade, then we should consider making a run for it. I'd like to either commit to the Republic Slingshot or decide to research other items (and maybe getting it from huts). Masonry to a SCI tribe for BW would be great and they might be able to build the Pyramids for us. I agree with your ideas for happy wonders. I had discounted their effect earlier and getting one or two would be a boost. What's the plan on triggering an American goldern age? We probably don't want to wait for the F-15, so it'll need to be wonder driven. Colossus & Copernicus are the most valuable for the expansionist half. For the industrious, capturing/building the Pyramids or Hanging Gardens are the best choice unless we want to wait for Hoover. Maybe a Hoover sponsored GA might be perfectly timed to research those late IA techs faster and help pump out tanks & bombers in prep for our invasions.

Sorry to see BH won't be with us for this one

I doubt anyone would have a problem with me chiming in here and there. If it was oh, say, a three time eptathlete or something like that, perhaps there would be a problem. But I was on the roster for the last game and managed to contribute very little, so don't expect too much from me.

A rather large one again... Sorry guess I keep spamming I guess.....

IMO Colossus is a must to get the commerce up. Possibly using a prebuild?
On size 12 thats 12 extra commerce. And with a lib 18 extra beakers. That counts... Hard... On the other hand thats a long term thing. Short term is you lose 200 shields, thats a few settlers.

On moving vs not moving... If we move we gain long term shields (when working the mountain and hill). Short term we lose on some food and shields (besides the obvious chops).
The 1 turn moving and subsequent 10 turns without lambs field. In addition with the longer time it will take to Irrigate the lamb.
Will cost about 8 food (thats 2 turns at that time) and about 10 shields. In return we will be working the Riverside that time and get a little more commerce, 10 or so maybe...

Moving SE will give us 5 grasslands, 2 of which are bound to be BGs...
The slower growth + loss of early shields + loss of chops (for granary build) may just way in on moving SE

Shakes would be very nice... If we can get to researching hard it might be worth the round trip thru 3 optional techs ASAP (Meaning BEELINE).
Getting shakes that early and getting WDC up to 20 or so would be one big happy thing. In paricular since shakes also makes 8! people content, assuring no riots....
The added bonus is if we have a contact and we self research Printing Press we can buy contacts.... Should we need to....Scratch that! Trading contacts at writing allready !!!!

I did some more work on SE vs NW vs On The Spot (OTS) after all.... Taking into account that none of the grasslands is a BG.
At size 20 it will produce to much food to stay at 20 so we get some specialist In particular with railroads. Just assuming size 20 for now....
Mined everything there is to mine but the FPs... and maximized for shields at that size...
-Size 6 -Size 12-Size 20-
0/13/16 0/20/29 2/22/53 : SE
1/13/19 2/20/35 6/22/58 : NW
1/11/18 3/17/34 7/17/58 : OTS

I attached the excel file I used for creating this stat... And calculating. Just in case I did anything wrong...

It seems to me that moving is a good thing...
And, I think, we should move SE, It has less food, and a little less commerce. But same shields and earlier shields than moving NW. As an added bonus we get some chops to help with the granary. And 8-ish extra food SE vs NW.
Plus if any of them grasses are BG, thats more shields!
Bad new is that this location will not be a settler factory either. In depo that is, unless one of the 2 "normal" grasses hidden in the fog have a cow for us...

On the wonder front:

Expansionist wonders:
Colossus (Want that one, So Exp is covered)
Copes (Definite must have)
Lighthouse (No need)
Magellan (No need)
Seti (if we get that far...)

Industrious wonders:
Hanging gardens (Possible want? In WDC?)
Pyramids
Hoover Dam
Manhattan

All: INTERNET, do we want to save our GA till war-time?

Best strat for wonder GA may be to capture HG or Pyramids. Both HG and Pyramids only work on the 'continent' tho...
and then to build a wonder like shakes to trigger it.
But if we want HG we want it in DC i think....

Since it'l prob be a builders game (agree on that one) We will need to take the high road the in the Middle ages anyway (primary beeline to banking). An exception may be if we choose to get Great lib and gamble on that... Then offcourse we do not want Education and will go south.

Seeing as this is a builders 'paradise' We might actualy go for SoZ and KT. If we get it fast (thus lots of units) we can use them to 'store' shields. Disbanding them will then add to building stuff (like Universities? or Banks). Or in the more corrupt area's

City placement OCP? To get max production in the Modern times? We could fill the empty slots till Hospitals....

Can we use the "get the hell out of my land" jump trick? Meaning suppose we have a (close) neighbour on our island... Get a warrior/settler or so to the other end and get send out of his lands. Jumping to the nearest available spot (possibly on another island)

I did just read the it was desided to up the difficulty to Emporer, not keep it at Monarch!

Additional question I searched for the answer, but could not find it. Are all victory conditions allowed for the AS? and US (pun intended )? Tho we want/need conquest, could we trigger domination by mistake? Or lose to UN/Space?
If so we might want to control the UN.... Or is that planning to far ahead...

I seem to be getting into this one real deep, real quick ...

Personal note: Choppers are an optional tech at the end of the IA! needing all the non-optional ones... *sigh*

namliaM said:

I did just read the it was desided to up the difficulty to Emporer, not keep it at Monarch!:

Click to expand...

Monarch was only a fallback "possibility". We didn't "up" the difficulty. We just didn't reduce it.

For the AI all victory conditions are available except Diplomatic and Spaceship. (disabled)

For us, must win by conquest, so a domination win is considered a loss. One thing we have to be very careful of is allowing any AI to jump their capital to a 1-tile island. That would make the game very difficult to win (maybe impossible), as we'd have to kill all of the defenders using the F-15 & Cruise Missles and then take the city with paratroops (if that's possible).

More spam from the Mailman Oh no more spam ...

A second scout, this beeing small/Archi .... I dont think it to be needed... and with barbs on Raging... We need a warrior in WDC.
So builds would be scout>warrior or Warrior>Warrior
Alternative would be only 1 warrior
Worker
Granary

Assuming that the worker is allready on the lambs upon founding WDC. I worked on some schedules

A)Having a build que Warrior>Warrior>Worker>Granary
-1-
Worker 1 actions:
Irrigate-Road Lambs
Irrigate-Road FP
Chop Plain forrest
Irrigate-Road
Some turns to spare here

Worker 2 actions:
Chop Grass Forrest
Road
Chop Grass Forrest
Some turns to spare here

Working as much food as we can (starting with the Lambs, then FP. Later Irrigated plains)
We should be (if I did it correctly) at
Granary ready in turn 24, size 3, with 4 food in the bin and a total of 108 commerce.
@4/3/6
Needing 4 more turns to reach size 4

-2-
Same que but mine the lambs
Worker 1 actions:
Road-Mine Lambs
Irrigate-Road FP
Chop Plain Forrest
Irrigate-Road
Some turns to spare here

Worker 2 Actions:
Chop grass Forrest
NE
Chop Grass forrest
Some turns to spare here

With granary done in turn 23, Size 2, 14 food, 88 commerce
To even out to A-1
Turn 24, 17 food, 3 shields, 88 commerce
@3/3/5 pt.
Size 3 would then follow 1 turn later for 3/4/6


B) Warrior>Worker>Granary
Worker 1 actions:
Irrigate-Road Lambs
Irrigate-Road FP
Chop Plains Forrest
Some turns to spare here

Worker 2 actions:
Chop Grass Forrest
Road
Chop grass Forrest
Some turns to spare here
Switching in a forrest for 3 turns would allow:
Granary done in turn 21, Size 2, 18 food, 69 commerce

Adding 3 turns to even out to A-1
In turn 24: Size 3, 18 food, 11 shields, 84 commerce
@4/3/6

C) Warrior>Granary>Worker

This is not really an option I think, due to the loss of worker activity. (chopping and stuff) Also we will grow into size 4 but minus a worker at turn 24.... Not a good option IMO