Minister Koun?

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Goodgimp

Warlord
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Jan 20, 2006
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What leader is Minister Koun, did I miss it somewhere in the changelog?

I'm playing a game where Minister Koun of Clan of Embers showed up.

I've never seen him before, so am just curious who he is.
 
Lore-wise, he's a Grigori minister I believe.

Gameplay-wise, he's the result of an event where a city can split off to form either an allied or completely independent empire with Koun as its leader.
 
There is an event that has an option of splitting a city into a seperate player of that same civ. Some times as a permanent ally (or is it vassal?), sometimes independant. Minister Koun is the leader that will be chosen for that city. Note he is agnostic; this might hint at the role he plays in a scenario.
 
There's a random event where part of a civ can secede from its parent nation and become it's own nation. That new civ is Minister Koun.
 
Arcite36575 said:
There's a random event where part of a civ can secede from its parent nation and become it's own nation. That new civ is Minister Koun.
Click to expand...

This is also quite possibly the most annoying event ever implemented. Only slightly more annoying than the one that causes your CD tray to eject, and smack you right in your bean bag.
 
Someone mentioned earlier that it is doubling the research cost and etc. if you agree on him joining as your ally. Is it [still] true?
 
[NWO]_Valis;7181073 said:
Someone mentioned earlier that it is doubling the research cost and etc. if you agree on him joining as your ally. Is it [still] true?
Click to expand...
Yes. It absolutely wrecks your research, since not only does it double the costs, Koun is too stupid to research the same thing as you and will cheerfully spend 100 turns trying to research arcane lore on his own, or whatever. Oh and did I mention it also wreaks havoc on trying to found religions, or get free great people from being first to reach something?
 
Koun is too stupid to research the same thing as you and will cheerfully spend 100 turns trying to research arcane lore on his own, or whatever
Click to expand...

As far as I know you can order an allied AI to change whats it researching via the diplomacy panel.

The rest is really a hard kick in the family jewels.
 
[NWO]_Valis;7181073 said:
Someone mentioned earlier that it is doubling the research cost and etc. if you agree on him joining as your ally. Is it [still] true?
Click to expand...

It does not double research costs, it increased them by 50%.


Code: 
<Define>
		<DefineName>TECH_COST_EXTRA_TEAM_MEMBER_MODIFIER</DefineName>
		<iDefineIntVal>50</iDefineIntVal>
	</Define>
 
seriously, permanent alliances should get some kind of boost. as it stands now, it's pretty much pointless since it ALWAYS ends up screwing your research for no big benefit cuz the AI is not the smartest in town.
 
I don't see why there should be an increase in researching costs, to me allowing a city to become independant should be a worthwhile risk: Less mainatainance and research time in exchange for the annoying religion founding and lack of control.

I had thought about creating a scenario where differant civs were actually broken up between their leaders and set in Permanant alliances, but thought that some would be overpowering with the extra palace.
 
So... what counts as a permanent alliance? That thing where you can split up your civ on a separate continent? What about vassal states?
 
Only Permanent Alliances are Permanent Alliances.

Vassal States and Colonies (which are a type of vassal state) do not count as permanent alliances: they are not permanent. Also, do don't share research with them (although you can tell then what to research and usually trade techs with them.)
 
the problem with permanent alliances with teams of basium/player or kohn/player, is that the 50% increase to research costs is a real killer in the early to mid game.

For example, if you have an empire of 10 cities, and then you build the mercurian gate, then your 10 cities (9+1) will have an almost 50% larger research burden because Basium's country's infrascture and nation size are too small to support.

However, if you were in the late game with 10 cities, and you formed a permanent alliance with another AI with 10 cities, you would have a big boon to your research rate.

I think that instead of a flat 50% research increase fee, there should be some sort of varying multiplier for increased research cost which changes depending on the difference in the sizes of the two nations in a permanent alliance. If your partner is very small compared to you, then the modifer might be only 10%. But if both of your nations are similar sized, then the modifer would be closer to 50%
 
However, if you were in the late game with 10 cities, and you formed a permanent alliance with another AI with 10 cities, you would have a big boon to your research rate.
Click to expand...
That depends on your view. I disagree because of following:
Lets say there are two empires, both producing 100 research/ turn.
There are 2 good techs which cost for simplicity 1000 each.

Scenario 1: both allied, tech costs increase to 1500 each
Player A and player B both research tech A first, then tech B
Tech A is acquired after 1500/(100+100)= 7,5 rounded up 8 turns and Tech B after 15 turns (in total).

Scenario 2: both allied, tech costs increase to 1500 each
Player A researches tech A and player B researches tech B.
Tech A and Tech B are acquired after 1500/(100)= 15 turns.

Scenario 3: not allied but playing together. tech costs stay at 1000.
Player A researches tech A and player B researches tech B.
Tech A and Tech B are acquired after 1000/(100)= 10 turns.
Player A and Player B trade techs.

Comparing:
Scenario 1 takes 15 turns to get both techs, but scenario 3 only 10.
So why should I ally? (Of course this works better in multiplayer or lower difficulties where the Ai actually accepts fair deals)
 
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