Aspyr Civ V Folder in Documents

Hello Mac Users,

Civ V has installed the Aspyr folder in my Documents folder on my mac... this is very annoying and reminiscent of a Windows instal!!

I tried deleting the folder and moving it to Applications (where it belongs)... but when I launch Civ V it re-created the folder back in Documents, grrrr!

Any suggestions please on how to stop it doing this?

On a similar note, if I delete Civ V folder (as above) the only trace of it on my mac is the desktop icon (which is listed as an Application !?), but when I do 'More Info' it just lists this icon as being 45KB in size... clearly Civ V is installed on my mac somewhere, but where?

So, should I want to, how do I uninstal Civ V?

Many thanks!

This is indeed annoying and a blatant and deliberate violation of Apple's guidelines. Blizzard made the same error with Starcraft 2, but then changed it to the one and only correct location, the Application Support folder. Let's hope Aspyr fixes this in a similar way. Polluting the Documents folder this way really shows a lack of sensitivity for things Mac users care about.

Sorry, you are both wrong.

The Civ5 folder in ~/Documents/ is exactly where it should be, as it's where your user documents related to the application go. Your saves, maps (and eventually, maybe, your mods.) are *your* documents, not Aspyr's or Steam's. Apple's guidelines don't say that a Civ5 saved game document is somehow different from a Pages document. Both were created by you - you just used different applications.

On a multi-user OS like MacOS X (and Windows), you need to differentiate between user A and user B documents, so they need to go in each user's ~/Documents/ space to be private and unique-to-user.

The Civ5 software *is* actually in your ~/Library/Applications Support/Steam/ folder, where Frederico believes it should be. The logic is as follows:

Steam is a per-user account system, so if there are two users on your Mac (or PC) and they have different Steam accounts, then they need different places where their Steam subscription software is kept. So it has to go in the ~/ user space. They started off by putting the Steam software library in ~/Documents/ as well, but people complained that it made their backups bigger than necessary. So they shifted it into the ~/Library/Applications Support/ folder, which apparently isn't backed up typically.

You might argue that the items in ~/Documents/ should be in the same place as the software, but that could make them vulnerable to a software re-installation or upgrade. Separating them into the ~/Documents/ folder is actually more secure.

So, to delete your Civ5 software you need to remove it from the Steam folder in ~/Library/Applications Support/. If you also want to delete your own saves and so on then you need to delete the Civ5 folder in ~/Documents/

AlanH said:

The Civ5 folder in ~/Documents/ is exactly where it should be, as it's where your user documents related to the application go.

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Are you sure? This Apple document appears to say something else:

Don’t Pollute User Space

It is important to remember that the user domain (/Users) is intended for files created by the user. With the exception of the ~/Library directory, your application should never install files into the user’s home directory. In particular, you should never install files into a user’s Documents directory or into the /Users/Shared directory. These directories should only be modified by the user.

Even if your application provides clip art or sample files that the user would normally manipulate, you should place those files in either the local or user’s Library/Application Support directory by default. The user can move or copy files from this directory as desired. If you are concerned about the user finding these files, you should include a way for the user to browse or access them directly from your application’s user interface.

Click to expand...

http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#documentation/MacOSX/Conceptual/BPFileSystem/Articles/WhereToPutFiles.html%23//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40001411-BAJHCHJI

It does contain files created by the user. You decide when to create your saved games, you define their names and you click Save. Just like when you save a word document. It does also contain .ini files, which you my feel are not yours. But again, these are created by your actions when you select the game options, and it is capable of being edited by you to adjust those options. These are documents that you typically will not want to be deleted or re-initialised when you replace the game software.

The only issue you might have is that Aspyr defines the folder structure they go into within Documents. This is fairly standard for games companies, who want to ensure minimal tech support calls from customers, many of whom have demonstrated in the past that they are incapable of finding files on their own computers.

It seems to me that these files (cache files, unused mod folders, unused save file folders, etc, etc) were all created when installing the application. Please correct me if I'm mistaken.

Also please take note of what Apples says:

Even if your application provides clip art or sample files that the user would normally manipulate, you should place those files in either the local or user’s Library/Application Support directory by default.

Click to expand...

Update:
Deleting the Aspyr folder in ~Documents and restarting automatically recreates the Aspyr folder.

They are not files, just empty folders where files can be placed or saved. I think this is making a mountain out of a molehill.

It doesn't matter if they are files or folders. Their presence means that the Documents folder is altered without the user intending it to be so.

And you would prefer that they went where?

In ~/Library/Application Support

Which is where the software is. I think that could get very confusing for a lot of people we try to help on this forum. We'll just have to agree to differ.

The software is in ~/Library/Application Support/Steam. I don't think putting the other files in ~/Library/Application Support/Aspyr would be confusing. It's a different folder.

I have to agree with the ~/Library/Application Support as the default location for both the binary and user files. The logic that it should go in the Documents folder because the user saved a game could be extended to putting anything into the Documents folder. The user turned on the power button, so everything done after that goes into the Documents folder

The difference between saving a game in Civ and saving a document in Word is that Word gives you a choice of where to put that document. Aspyr is giving no choice and that is what can bug people. The Documents folder is the domain of the user, not for some other company to decide what goes there.

Count me as another that would like to see the Aspyr folder in ~/Documents/ moved to ~/Library/Applications Support. It's where all my other Steam game folders are, these include save files as well.

I'm obviously in a minority, so I'll bow to superior numbers.

Note that the main reason the Steam software was moved to Applications Support was so that it wouldn't use up valuable backup storage space. So presumably saves and other user-related documents related to Civ5 would also not be backed up if they were moved there.

AlanH said:

Note that the main reason the Steam software was moved to Applications Support was so that it wouldn't use up valuable backup storage space. So presumably saves and other user-related documents related to Civ5 would also not be backed up if they were moved there.

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Could you please care to explain that? What backup mechanism is this?

It is a shame some developers crap into the Documents folder — that has resulted in me abandoning it, and creating a variation thereof in my User folder.

In this case, while there are some Save files generated, it should definitely be in App Support, as the whole lot is very rarely accessed outside the game.

Frederico said:

Could you please care to explain that? What backup mechanism is this?

Click to expand...

Dunno. I was remembering an earlier post about why the Steam folder moved from ~/Documents/ to ~/Library/Application Support/. Time Machine seems to back it all up on my system.

naphouse said:

The difference between saving a game in Civ and saving a document in Word is that Word gives you a choice of where to put that document. Aspyr is giving no choice and that is what can bug people.

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Thanks for the replies people.

I would have to agree with the above - Civ doesn't ask me where it wants the saves to go, it just dumps them in my Documents. I raised a ticket with Aspyr about this (yes, I'm that annoyed!) but no reply yet....

Yes, Application Support is the "proper" place for these files. Saving to Documents is pretty much just an artifact of the fact the Aspyr code base has evolved over the years from OS 7 (along with changing guidelines about the "proper" thing to do), so that's just the "the way it's always been done". At this point, after the game has been released, changing it will only cause headaches and confusion for everyone.

However, if and when (i.e. when Apple provides a delta patching mechanism or after the final Civ 5 patch) we put this on the Mac app store, that will have to be changed to conform to Apple's guidelines, along with putting everything in app bundle as well.

This is something we'll probably change as part of the effort to update our porting framework, so that future titles will conform by default.

Also please don't construe any statements I make on this forum as the "official" company word, these are just my personal opinions on the matter.