Beta 7 Talk

3Miro

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Subtitle to this thread: Our mod SUX less than it used to :D Get Beta 7 now!

https://sourceforge.net/projects/rfceurope/

It has been three long week of lots of hard work, but we finally have something playable again. With all the changes that we introduced, we can call this not Beta 7, but RFCEurope II, so here is only a short list of the biggest ones:

Provinces
The map is now divided into Provinces. Those play major factor for both Stability and UHV conditions. Remember to hold Ctr when hovering over a Province to see all the tiles that belong to it.

New Stability Scheme
Stability now works different than before. Every point counts (big time). Most things that you would normally do, lower your stability. The main source of positive Stability would be the four buildings: Manor House, Courthouse, Castle and Night Watch. Here is some stability advice:

- Expand slowly, make sure you have positive Stability and wait to build Stability boost buildings before you expand. Don't go spamming cities into Unstable (or even Stable) territory right away.
- Purge foreign religion from your cities (doesn't count for Poland).
- Keep your cities happy and healthy, protected and don't warmonger too much.
- Your citizens should work tiles with improvements prioritizing resources. Don't let your cities grow without commerce and production boosting buildings.
- Don't over-expand too quickly and don't let enemy cities in your core territory.

New Tech Rate
It is now very hard to get too far ahead in technology. Tech cost adjusts dynamically, depending on the historic time of each tech. You cannot get too far ahead and it is also harder to fall behind (although you can fall behind). Overall, you will not see any Knight in the 11th century and colonies do not get founded before the 16th century.

New Victory Interface
Now we can actually read what the victory conditions are. The entire Victory module was rewritten so that the interface can become even better in the future. Eventually, we will be showing counters for each UHV as well as dynamically the progress of each province Conquered or Lost.

Timeline of Europe
We are moving closer and closer to a historically accurate Timeline of Europe. Most of the UHV conditions and techs are already tied to one major event or another. Overall the mod should be more historical than before.

New Civilization: Lithuania
In the view of all the other changes, this looks like a small one. There a lot more to be done in terms of balancing Lithuania, but we do have a playable civilization now.

New Bugs for Your Enjoyment
Thanks to Opera and other testers, we have cleaned a ton of bugs already, but there are more lurking around. Overall this Beta will be somewhat unstable, but we hope to have everything fixed by next week when we want to release Beta 8.
 
Gonna try it out :D Is it simply a Beta Unstable + patch2? Maybe with some other fixes? Or has the map changed yet?

Of course, I'll play with python exceptions enabled ;)
 
Yes, Beta Unstable with a few more fixes
The map is not updated yet
 
I'm not sure how you guys see it, but it wasn't like this in previous versions.
It's basicly in the hands of the player to decide so I wouldn't concider it a bug, more along 'having the player make an odd choice'.
In previous versions all cities were removed from the 9 tile 'spawn-square'. Improvements stayed and units on the spawn point flipped.
In the current version you can choose between razing the city or keeping it (thus it becomes your capitol). Now to the 'odd' parts, I've only started with Portugal so far though.

In my case Lisboa flips, but it's only size 1 and Lagos is there too(still Cordoban though). Hmm lose a few turns on the capitol vs extra city..
As long as the city is on the spawn location it's fairly ok, but the cordoban AI likes the position 1NW which still kinda sucks but gets those lovely whales :)

I can imagine that this might also happen with Burgundy(Dijon area) and the Netherlands (Amsterdam area).
With Burgundy it might be to their advantage but the Dutch UHV could get screwed if the player accepts a flip and the city isn't on the right location for the 'settle merchants UHV' (unless the UHV isn't focused on the tile with the dye anymore)
The initial buildings based on your civ are still there though, so the Dutch would still get a nicely upgraded city.
A good question would be, does razing it reduce stability?



In my first attempt I razed the city but I wanted to check how it looks if I kept it. So I reloaded from autoplay. I get two results, if I take the save from the initial spawn the city doesn't flip and my units are pushed out. If I reload earlier the found to the NW thus making the flip undesireable for me :crazyeye:
anyway the being pushed out without flip part after reload seems not right to me



I hope all this makes sense ;)
 
Beta 7 has more fixed than Patch 3, this is the one you should be playing right now.

Daffy, do you have a autosave couple of turns before you spawn. I want to fix this.
 
Not much yet to say (and no python exceptions!) on my Germany game. The city in Bavaria (Augsburg? Can't remember its name) was razed so it didn't flip to me. Do we get a settler in compensation or not? (I sure didn't get one when it should have flipped).

For now stability is way easier than in my Bulgaria game. It's more of a settling game for Germany, at least in the beginning. Still conquered Luebeck (sp?), Praha and Milano. IIRC Praha will flip to Austria right?
 
Beta 7 has more fixed than Patch 3, this is the one you should be playing right now.

Daffy, do you have a autosave couple of turns before you spawn. I want to fix this.

I also have 1092;1104;1116 if needed


and Luebeck is the correct spelling as long as the mod can't display Lübeck correctly :)
 
I also have 1092;1104;1116 if needed


and Luebeck is the correct spelling as long as the mod can't display Lübeck correctly :)

Cordoba builds the city only one turn before you spawn. I reloaded twice, once I got the city exactly where Lisboa was and once it was a tile NW. Both cases the city flipped to me.

I will look at the code and see how it can be improved. Maybe the AI should be rigged to not settle at a wider range around someone else's capital.
 
Cordoba builds the city only one turn before you spawn. I reloaded twice, once I got the city exactly where Lisboa was and once it was a tile NW. Both cases the city flipped to me.

I will look at the code and see how it can be improved. Maybe the AI should be rigged to not settle at a wider range around someone else's capital.

Hmm, how did all those tiles get worked then? :) (pig, wine, horse, 3 farms)

I had always assumed that Cordoba had built a city, culture expanded and worked the tiles with workers if the tiles were preworked when Portugal spawns.
 
Hmm, how did all those tiles get worked then? :) (pig, wine, horse, 3 farms)

I had always assumed that Cordoba had build a city, culture expanded and worked the tiles with workers when the tiles were preworked when Portugal spawns.

You are right, the improvements shouldn't be there. I will have to take another look tonight.
 
Not much yet to say (and no python exceptions!) on my Germany game. The city in Bavaria (Augsburg? Can't remember its name) was razed so it didn't flip to me. Do we get a settler in compensation or not? (I sure didn't get one when it should have flipped).

For now stability is way easier than in my Bulgaria game. It's more of a settling game for Germany, at least in the beginning. Still conquered Luebeck (sp?), Praha and Milano. IIRC Praha will flip to Austria right?

yep.

I played a game as the Venetians. I collapsed with stability at -10 and only 4 cities something's definitely not right
 
The amount of turns remaining until a tech is researched seems to be off.
The progress bar itself is correct.

Says 2 turns remaining but it's actually 3.







Had the same thing with Portugal
 
With the new tech cost, this would be occasionally off by a turn. Hope it is not too confusing.

You have some of that in RFC too, when tech cost changes when you build cities and/or enter different ages.
 
With the new tech cost, this would be occasionally off by a turn. Hope it is not too confusing.

You have some of that in RFC too, when tech cost changes when you build cities and/or enter different ages.

I think you mean when it drops from say 20 turns left to 15 turns left at some point during research, right?

But it wasn't like in picture 2 that it misleads that the tech will be done in 1 turn.
Afaik the only case where that happened was during the plague.
If say at 60% research you have 1 turn left and 50% = 2 turns, then you'd have to set the research rate to 70% during the plague to get the tech the next turn.
My explanation for this was the shrinking population at the end of a turn.


right now the only indicator is if the green bar really is full, then it'll be done next turn

I guess im somewhat of a nitpicker :mischief:

btw what happens to the surplus research?
does it get added to the next project like production, or does some of it get lost?
currently I put allot of emphasis to not create a research surplus at the end, instead I up the tax/culture/espionage rate the last two turns to 'waste' nothing
100% reseach until the last 2-3 turns and then i.e. 20%research/80%tax
I have a feeling that that isn't really necessary
but it usually does give a bit more cash than leaving it at a fixed i.e. 20%tax/80%research rate
 
I think you mean when it drops from say 20 turns left to 15 turns left at some point during research, right?

But it wasn't like in picture 2 that it misleads that the tech will be done in 1 turn.
Afaik the only case where that happened was during the plague.
If say at 60% research you have 1 turn left and 50% = 2 turns, then you'd have to set the research rate to 70% during the plague to get the tech the next turn.
My explanation for this was the shrinking population at the end of a turn.


right now the only indicator is if the green bar really is full, then it'll be done next turn

I guess im somewhat of a nitpicker :mischief:

There is no way to predict the effect of the plague on the research. Just like there is no way to predict you will losing a city or get improvement pillaged or decide to shift all of your workers to mines as opposed to cottages.

In BtS and RFC, the turns left are computed as "remaining cost of beakers divided by beakers per turn". In RFCE, we also account for the tech discount as you approach the historic date, so it is more complicated, but essentially the same idea.
 
it's not really about prediction, at least not precise :)
the 10% extra might not be enough or even unnecessary (plague ending i.e.)
the plague simply slows down everything and if you want to keep the same speed as without the plague you have to 'produce' more so that the 'slow-down' is effectively neutralized
hence higher research rate :)

unless you're already maxed out anyway, then I usually lower it and go for gold or something
 
hmm, I forgot the reason for coming back to the forum in the first place :)

I've noticed some people complaining about bad stabilty.
Manor houses don't seem to add to stability, at least their bonus doesn't show up in the interior advisor screen under 'cities'
tried out switching to manorialism, but it didn't show there either.
I got the first increase with my first courthouse.

(with Genoa)
 
Trying Franks, all went fine, had to conquer Liubice to win UHV #1, that's far from my land! Hired 3 horse archers to win.
 
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