Beta 7 Talk

[3Miro]

hmm, I forgot the reason for coming back to the forum in the first place

I've noticed some people complaining about bad stabilty.
Manor houses don't seem to add to stability, at least their bonus doesn't show up in the interior advisor screen under 'cities'
tried out switching to manorialism, but it didn't show there either.
I got the first increase with my first courthouse.

(with Genoa)

Manor House should show under Economy. Night Watch shows under cities, Courthouses under Civics and Castles under Expansion.

 

[3Miro]

Trying Franks, all went fine, had to conquer Liubice to win UHV #1, that's far from my land! Hired 3 horse archers to win.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Frankish_Empire_481_to_814-en.svg

 

[ezzlar]

The third Lithuanian UHV "Conquer or vassalize Moscow", are we talking about the city or the civ?

 

[3Miro]

The third Lithuanian UHV "Conquer or vassalize Moscow", are we talking about the city or the civ?

Both. Conquer Moscow is the province, Vassalize is the Civ.

 

[Daffy]

tried out another game with portugal
this time something's wrong with spain

they collapsed 1 turn after cordoba, only to respawn 2 turns later without a city
just a few units near cordoba (knights etc.) which they promptly conquered and declared it the capitol of the islamic emirate of spain

 

[3Miro]

tried out another game with portugal
this time something's wrong with spain

they collapsed 1 turn after cordoba, only to respawn 2 turns later without a city
just a few units near cordoba (knights etc.) which they promptly conquered and declared it the capitol of the islamic emirate of spain

You are getting the strangest games ever. This means that either others are not reporting those issues, you are playing a lot more than anyone else (so you are getting more of those) or you have a corrupt install ...

Did Spain took over a Crusade? It is possible that the Crusaders arrived after Spain had already collapsed.

 

[Daffy]

there was a call for a crusade at some point, but I refused to participate and have no idea who won

but the spanish troops near cordoba are the exact make-up of a crusader army
so I guess it was bad timing

and I haven't really started that many games, max 10
nothing mentionable with Germany, Genoa or Venice

but I think I've only reported 1 real bug (portuguese spawn issue)
the tech bar is something you seemed aware of
and the stability posting about manor house bonus not showing under cities(interior advisor) is because you guys moved it to economy


I deleted the previous rfceurope folder before I downloaded this one, should I redownload or so?

 

[3Miro]

there was a call for a crusade at some point, but I refused to participate and have no idea who won

but the spanish troops near cordoba are the exact make-up of a crusader army
so I guess it was bad timing

and I haven't really started that many games, max 10
nothing mentionable with Germany, Genoa or Venice

I deleted the previous rfceurope folder before I downloaded this one, should I redownload or so?

No, you should be fine if all the other games are fine. I haven't looked at the Portugal game yet.

You should get a Crusade message regardless of whether you participated or not. However, I usually just ignore those (unless I am part of the Crusade).

 

[Daffy]

Manor House should show under Economy. Night Watch shows under cities, Courthouses under Civics and Castles under Expansion.

courthouses show under cities
manor house shows under economy
castle under expansion
haven't had night watch yet

 

[Leoreth]

Both. Conquer Moscow is the province, Vassalize is the Civ.

Rephrase it to "Conquer Moscow or vassalize Muscovy", should be more clear then.

 

[Black Hawk 4701]

I tried a game as Venice and I had a city in Verona, Dalmatia, Arberia, and Epirus all before 1007. I failed the first objective still. I revealed all the tiles with world builder and checked the cites closest to me. The Italian cities were where they should be Tuscany, Lombardy, etc. Byzantines had one in Moreia, Thessaly, and Thessaloniki. The Hungarians had one in Pannonia and the Germans had 2 in Bavaria. I had all the right provinces along with Croatia(if that affects anything).

 

[3Miro]

I tried a game as Venice and I had a city in Verona, Dalmatia, Arberia, and Epirus all before 1007. I failed the first objective still. I revealed all the tiles with world builder and checked the cites closest to me. The Italian cities were where they should be Tuscany, Lombardy, etc. Byzantines had one in Moreia, Thessaly, and Thessaloniki. The Hungarians had one in Pannonia and the Germans had 2 in Bavaria. I had all the right provinces along with Croatia(if that affects anything).

What does the UHV say? If it says conquer, you have to own all cities in that province, i.e. if someone else gets a city in Epirus, then you would fail the condition. (Either that or there is a bug with the code, which I will look at tonight).

 

[Black Hawk 4701]

What does the UHV say? If it says conquer, you have to own all cities in that province, i.e. if someone else gets a city in Epirus, then you would fail the condition. (Either that or there is a bug with the code, which I will look at tonight).

Yea I had all cities in the provinces so it's most likely a bug. It was like that in the Beta Unstable too, but that was when Arberia was Illyria.

 

[3Miro]

Yea I had all cities in the provinces so it's most likely a bug. It was like that in the Beta Unstable too, but that was when Arberia was Illyria.

Thanks for reporting, I will look into it.

 

[Tigranes]

First of all I salute all the changes! I liked the way civs expanded themselves, with Arabs stretching all the way to Tunisia. New LHs are very nice too. The Ctrl feature became my favorite, we need to suggest embryodead to do the same for SoI. Naturally I started as Lithuania and few weird things happened...

1. Looked like Poland successfully colonized my lands, 3-4 Polish cities flipped to me. Not sure if this was intentional, or remnant from the pre-Lithuanian Settler maps when Poland would act as both Polish and Lithuanian Commonwealth and settle in Lithuania.

2. Since Lithuania is now around Poland should not be called Commonwealth anymore.

3. Pope declared crusade to aid Poland. I was thrilled with the prospect to fight the massive Catholic invasion, but ... nothing happened! Either everyone refused to participate or we have a bug here.

4. Venice (and Hungary) collapsed due to instability (not wars). Not sure about Hungary, but perhaps something needs to be done to boost Venetian stability. XIV century just not the same without Venice... I also feel that Venice should get back on island -- this is good both for overseas trade and historical security that city enjoyed. Plus it will create additional incentives for a strong navy.

5. Lithuania should be able to build or see at least a few Pagan shrines, otherwise it does not feel like playing the last Pagan nation in Europe... I remember in Civ III's MEM one was able to do human sacrifices as Lithuania -- that was cool!

 

[youtien]

First of all I salute all the changes! I liked the way civs expanded themselves, with Arabs stretching all the way to Tunisia. New LHs are very nice too. The Ctrl feature became my favorite, we need to suggest embryodead to do the same for SoI. Naturally I started as Lithuania and few weird things happened...

1. Looked like Poland successfully colonized my lands, 3-4 Polish cities flipped to me. Not sure if this was intentional, or remnant from the pre-Lithuanian Settler maps when Poland would act as both Polish and Lithuanian Commonwealth and settle in Lithuania.

2. Since Lithuania is now around Poland should not be called Commonwealth anymore.

3. Pope declared crusade to aid Poland. I was thrilled with the prospect to fight the massive Catholic invasion, but ... nothing happened! Either everyone refused to participate or we have a bug here.

4. Venice (and Hungary) collapsed due to instability (not wars). Not sure about Hungary, but perhaps something needs to be done to boost Venetian stability. XIV century just not the same without Venice... I also feel that Venice should get back on island -- this is good both for overseas trade and historical security that city enjoyed. Plus it will create additional incentives for a strong navy.

5. Lithuania should be able to build or see at least a few Pagan shrines, otherwise it does not feel like playing the last Pagan nation in Europe... I remember in Civ III's MEM one was able to do human sacrifices as Lithuania -- that was cool!

Agree with pagan shrines. The most simple solution is take out monasticism from Lithuania's starting techs. Otherwise we can change UB.

 

[3Miro]

First of all I salute all the changes! I liked the way civs expanded themselves, with Arabs stretching all the way to Tunisia. New LHs are very nice too. The Ctrl feature became my favorite, we need to suggest embryodead to do the same for SoI. Naturally I started as Lithuania and few weird things happened...

1. Looked like Poland successfully colonized my lands, 3-4 Polish cities flipped to me. Not sure if this was intentional, or remnant from the pre-Lithuanian Settler maps when Poland would act as both Polish and Lithuanian Commonwealth and settle in Lithuania.

2. Since Lithuania is now around Poland should not be called Commonwealth anymore.

3. Pope declared crusade to aid Poland. I was thrilled with the prospect to fight the massive Catholic invasion, but ... nothing happened! Either everyone refused to participate or we have a bug here.

4. Venice (and Hungary) collapsed due to instability (not wars). Not sure about Hungary, but perhaps something needs to be done to boost Venetian stability. XIV century just not the same without Venice... I also feel that Venice should get back on island -- this is good both for overseas trade and historical security that city enjoyed. Plus it will create additional incentives for a strong navy.

5. Lithuania should be able to build or see at least a few Pagan shrines, otherwise it does not feel like playing the last Pagan nation in Europe... I remember in Civ III's MEM one was able to do human sacrifices as Lithuania -- that was cool!

1. Yes the Polish maps need to be updated.

2. Noted.

3. This was a defensive Crusade, meaning that Poland got a few Heavy Lancers/Knights at their capital with AI_ATTACK flag set to on. This is nowhere near as massive as the other Crusades.

4. We are still working on the stability.

5. Something that nobody seems to notice: if you are pagan, then you get all the culture from all religions. Basically Lithuania has the potential to produce more culture than any other player making their UHV kind of pointless.

 

[3Miro]

In my case Lisboa flips, but it's only size 1 and Lagos is there too(still Cordoban though). Hmm lose a few turns on the capitol vs extra city..
As long as the city is on the spawn location it's fairly ok, but the cordoban AI likes the position 1NW which still kinda sucks but gets those lovely whales

I can imagine that this might also happen with Burgundy(Dijon area) and the Netherlands (Amsterdam area).
With Burgundy it might be to their advantage but the Dutch UHV could get screwed if the player accepts a flip and the city isn't on the right location for the 'settle merchants UHV' (unless the UHV isn't focused on the tile with the dye anymore)
The initial buildings based on your civ are still there though, so the Dutch would still get a nicely upgraded city.
A good question would be, does razing it reduce stability?



In my first attempt I razed the city but I wanted to check how it looks if I kept it. So I reloaded from autoplay. I get two results, if I take the save from the initial spawn the city doesn't flip and my units are pushed out. If I reload earlier the found to the NW thus making the flip undesireable for me
anyway the being pushed out without flip part after reload seems not right to me



I hope all this makes sense

I figured it out and you are not going to believe this. It was something from Rhye's code. Basically, if you are human and you are spawning in a "foreign" areas then a 3x3 area around your spawn location get cleared from all AI cities. Lisboa was there as a Cordoban city and it was destroyed. However, the destruction takes place one turn before the spawn, so Cordoba just happened to keep a Settler nearby and they immediately settle the city again. The turn you spawn, the city culture-flips to you. Since the AI places the city randomly every turn, the city location is random.

This is from part of Rhye's code that I don't like to mess too much with. The whole spawn/autorun mechanics are a really ugly hack, but I don't think there is another way to do it.

 

[yogiebere]

That is hilarious!

Byzantines are still reallllly OP, they conquered Konstanza again and are boxing the Bulgarians in. Venezia collapsed around 1030, with the Byzantines playing a hand in it. The Byzantines also have partly regained control of Antiochia (I expect they will fully within a few turns if their "modest" army of 4 trebuchets, 2 crossbows, 2 cataphracts, and 9 horse archers! are good enough to take out 2 arab crossbows) and have almost completely colonized the vacant areas in Turkey.

 

[3Miro]

Too tired today, but I will nerf them tomorrow.