Beta 7 Talk

[Barratt_87]

I started a game as france and the first UHV was failed the next turn and with paris as my only city it was 'frankish empire'. Also tried an england game and with one city i was the kingdom of great britain... Also, on an arabian game the 'star' counter stayed at zero. Not sure but I figured that was suposed to be the spread of islam, if not then what is it for?

Also, what is the little arm flexing counter for?

Otherwise its great to have a new version to test, thanks!

 

[3Miro]

I started a game as france and the first UHV was failed the next turn and with paris as my only city it was 'frankish empire'. Also tried an england game and with one city i was the kingdom of great britain... Also, on an arabian game the 'star' counter stayed at zero. Not sure but I figured that was suposed to be the spread of islam, if not then what is it for?

Also, what is the little arm flexing counter for?

Otherwise its great to have a new version to test, thanks!

- Do you have a savegame with France. I did their first UHV, so it should be working.
- The counters on the main screen don't work yet.
- Flexing arm is the number of Experience points needed fro the next Great General.

 

[Daffy]

I figured it out and you are not going to believe this. It was something from Rhye's code. Basically, if you are human and you are spawning in a "foreign" areas then a 3x3 area around your spawn location get cleared from all AI cities. Lisboa was there as a Cordoban city and it was destroyed. However, the destruction takes place one turn before the spawn, so Cordoba just happened to keep a Settler nearby and they immediately settle the city again. The turn you spawn, the city culture-flips to you. Since the AI places the city randomly every turn, the city location is random.

This is from part of Rhye's code that I don't like to mess too much with. The whole spawn/autorun mechanics are a really ugly hack, but I don't think there is another way to do it.

well that explains the improvements around lisboa

I guess I should play lottery with my luck at getting very unlikely situations^^

btw. I noticed that ships usually don't flip when the cities flip 2 turns later (only if they are inside the city)
It's basicly only a nuisance in the early game and probably only happens with Portugal, but those ships sure like to pillage fishing boats (and blockade)

forces you to either not work the ocean until cordoba collapses or give them a decent fight (build more ships than they do)
which can seriously slow down the development of your empire

 

[merijn_v1]

If we can make it that a religion (except maybe Judism) don't give any culture, unless it is your state religion? I think this is the easiest way to "fix" the UHV. (And (state-)religion becomes more important)

 

[3Miro]

If we can make it that a religion (except maybe Judism) don't give any culture, unless it is your state religion? I think this is the easiest way to "fix" the UHV. (And (state-)religion becomes more important)

That is a good idea. I will look into coding it.

 

[youtien]

Just won a French UHV on Monarch, in 1494. The new stability system worked well, I expanded my empire carefully and made it around -5 to +5. The new tech system makes large empire suffer less penalty and more benefit, because large ones would have more people, land, hammer and gold.

 

[3Miro]

Just won a French UHV on Monarch, in 1494. The new stability system worked well, I expanded my empire carefully and made it around -5 to +5. The new tech system makes large empire suffer less penalty and more benefit, because large ones would have more people, land, hammer and gold.

Glad to hear something is working out.

BTW, 1494 is a bit early for Colonies. How many other players had build any?

 

[Daffy]

probably another one of my freak encounters

Spain built Krak de Chevaliers in 1197
France, Germany and Spain all have chivalry (of my contacts with Portugal)
I think that specific tech wasn't supposed to be available to anyone until late 13th century? over 100 years early then (taking in to account that it probably took a few turns to build the wonder)

now the reason for actually posting..
I wanted to check the wonder status (what's already built etc.) and noticed one of those TXT_KEY bugs
all wonders have that tag (a unit visited Leon recently, so it's not like the location of the wonder is unknown)
don't recall having read about this yet

 

[3Miro]

I was wrong about Chivalry. It is set for 1230 give or take 60 years, so 1197 isn't too far off. The AI can build a wonder in 15 - 20 turns on a high productivity city, maybe less depending on the wonder, make that even less with Golden Age and/or Great Engineer.

I actually wonder if we should disable tech trading, since the AI trades way too much. If anyone gets a tech, then they immediately trade it to everyone else. Or maybe make a tech unavailable for trading until X turns pass its historic date. Tech brokering is already disabled.

 

[ezzlar]

Whats the difference between tech trading and tech brokering?

By the way, the Byzantines still dont have their production penalty which really brakes the game. You get far too powerful.

 

[3Miro]

Whats the difference between tech trading and tech brokering?

By the way, the Byzantines still dont have their production penalty which really brakes the game. You get far too powerful.

Trading is when you discover a tech and trade it to someone for another tech/gold.

Brokering is when you trade tech to one player giving them tech/gold, then go ahead and trade it to another getting gold/tech. Brokering effectively gives you free tech.

What do you mean by the Byz not getting their production penalty? For them units cost (in hammers) twice as much as everyone else.

 

[ezzlar]

In my beta 7 a Guisarmier is 50 hammers instead of 100 hammers like in beta 6 playing as the Byzantines.

As france, to fulfill the first UHV, do you need one city in each of the regions or is it enough that no one else does?

 

[3Miro]

In my beta 7 a Guisarmier is 50 hammers instead of 100 hammers like in beta 6 playing as the Byzantines.

As france, to fulfill the first UHV, do you need one city in each of the regions or is it enough that no one else does?

- I will have to look at the hammer issue. If it is a bug, then it will explain a lot.

- Conquer is defined as own all cities or have all tiles inside Cultural borders. If there are not cities and there is at least one tile outside your cultural borders, then you have not conquered the province.

As France, with the exception of Orleans, Champagne and Aquitaine, you have to conquer one city per province. Aquitaine has two cities, Orleans and Champagne you will have to settle.

 

[Veshta]

You are right, the improvements shouldn't be there. I will have to take another look tonight.

Maybe they had a city there earlier on and lost it to the barbs that like to a spawn in the Spanish area .. AI frequently gets surprised by barbarians especially before they get techs to counter them (hell, I got surprised sometimes as well by the beserkers )

 

[3Miro]

Maybe they had a city there earlier on and lost it to the barbs that like to a spawn in the Spanish area .. AI frequently gets surprised by barbarians especially before they get techs to counter them (hell, I got surprised sometimes as well by the beserkers )

We figured it out already, see post #38.

 

[3Miro]

By the way, the Byzantines still dont have their production penalty which really brakes the game. You get far too powerful.

Thanks for noticing that. However, the bug is affecting the Human player only, AI always had the correct penalty. It is fixed for the next version.

 

[youtien]

Glad to hear something is working out.

BTW, 1494 is a bit early for Colonies. How many other players had build any?

None. I am ahead in techs. I controlled 3 AA (Bordeaux, Seville, Puerto de la Cruz), Spanish and English were no matches.

The key is to bulb trading companies via the free tech wonder. Use a GE to complete the wonder and boom! Trading companies cost 140000+ that time.

 

[3Miro]

Today I got to do something I don't do very often, I played a game of RFCE. I played with Venice. UHV 1 is fine, you get to conquer Ragusa and build 2 cities. It was close, but doable.

Second UHV is problematic. While the code works (there are no bugs), the Byzantines are ridiculous. First, it was the French that took and kept Jerusalem, which means no Crusades to deviate. Second, the Byz had at least 20 units in Constantinople. Even thought I had enough Trebuchets to get the city defense to 0%, I still needed over 40 Heavy Lancers to capture the city (40 Heavy Lancers were curtsy to the World Builder). In the mean time I lost at least 6 of my own HL to Byzantine Cataphracts. Something is off here ... The only good thing was that once I got the city, Byzantium collapsed. Also, my stability was OK.

Why do you guys think the Byz got so strong. The AI still gets the old penalties (only the human was buffed). They still lost two cities to the Seljuks. I didn't take too long to attack Constantinople, I declared war the turn before I entered their borders and two turns later I lost two Heavy Lancers. Cataphracts are not cheaper than HL (just stronger since they are the UU). Even a Crusade would have not taken that ...

The big changes that we made involved stability, which the Byz got anyway since it is their UP. Another one was the tech rate, but the Byz are just not that far behind behind.

 

[Science Rules]

I suggest putting more barbarian pressure on Byzantium immediately after the Arabs spawn. Historically, the Umayyads invaded almost all of Anatolia during the late 7th and early 8th century. Spawning stacks of Barbarian Horse Archers and letting them devastate Byzantine infrastructure seems appropriate. If random events ever get done then we could target Byzantium with Iconoclasm, earthquakes and the like.

 

[youtien]

Today I got to do something I don't do very often, I played a game of RFCE. I played with Venice. UHV 1 is fine, you get to conquer Ragusa and build 2 cities. It was close, but doable.

Second UHV is problematic. While the code works (there are no bugs), the Byzantines are ridiculous. First, it was the French that took and kept Jerusalem, which means no Crusades to deviate. Second, the Byz had at least 20 units in Constantinople. Even thought I had enough Trebuchets to get the city defense to 0%, I still needed over 40 Heavy Lancers to capture the city (40 Heavy Lancers were curtsy to the World Builder). In the mean time I lost at least 6 of my own HL to Byzantine Cataphracts. Something is off here ... The only good thing was that once I got the city, Byzantium collapsed. Also, my stability was OK.

Why do you guys think the Byz got so strong. The AI still gets the old penalties (only the human was buffed). They still lost two cities to the Seljuks. I didn't take too long to attack Constantinople, I declared war the turn before I entered their borders and two turns later I lost two Heavy Lancers. Cataphracts are not cheaper than HL (just stronger since they are the UU). Even a Crusade would have not taken that ...

The big changes that we made involved stability, which the Byz got anyway since it is their UP. Another one was the tech rate, but the Byz are just not that far behind behind.

There are historical possibilities that Byz kept strong. In that case, Venice could use some diplomatic attempts, like: make Bulgaria fight Byz, or influence civics via espionage. I'll try a Venice game right away, see how can I do with this.