TJ02: Lucky DyP

TedJackson

Cunning old Celt
Joined
Jan 8, 2003
Messages
2,393
Location
UK
Roster:
Greebley
Doc Tsiolkovski ---> up
Yndy --> retired
Deatvert --> MIA
a space oddity
TedJackson
Karasu
mad-bax

Intro
I've had a hankering to try out DyP for a long time. As most of my Civ time is committed to Succession Games I thought it might be cool to combine the two. What better way to explore this complex and intriguing mod than as an SG?

Start
TJ02-3.jpg


Start Conditions
Map Size: Large
Map type: Continents, 60% Water
Barbs: Sedentary
Climate: Wet
Temperature: Temperate
Age: 3 Billion
Civ: Mali
Opponents: 11 random
Enabled victories: Domination, Space Race, Diplomatic, Conquest, Cultural
Misc: Civ-Specific abilities on, Preserve random seed on, Cultural conversions on, all others off
Level: Emperor

Tweaks
Emissaries (all flavours) - removed HN, Added invisibility
Assassin - removed HN
Ninja - removed HN
Spy - removed HN
Secret Service - removed HN
Secret Agent - removed HN
Special Agent - removed HN
Covert Operative - removed HN

Labourers - added Airlift
Rifleman (all flavours) - Airlift added

Cuirassiers - added Ottomans
Privateer - set Bombard range to 0
Elephant Riders - removed Wheeled
Jet fighters - require Oil & Aluminium (not changed)
Inti - removed Amphibious & Blitz
Cossack - set HP Bonus to +2
Colonial Marines - Amphibious added

The save file is > here < and the modified bix is > there <


Ted
 
Preturn/4000 BC: Game loads! The crowd goes cheers. Jenne founded! The crowd goes wild. Hut is declared empty. The ref is booed. Start a scout.

Worker moved to the flood plains.

If I remember correctly, all scouts is good for huts, but bad for AI attacks. Need to balance this.

I see why settling on a hill is recommended. 2 shields in the base. Nice.

For science I will usually go for farming first if I don't have it. In this case, domestication is also an option. I think I am going to try to go for domestication first as it is more likely to be tradable. The reason I like these two is to show wheat, corn / cows, pigs of course so cities can grow faster. I set science to both minimum AND maximum at the same time. Very Zen.

3950 BC (1): Start roading Flood plain.
3900 BC (2): Zzzz
3850 BC (3): Zzzz
3800 BC (4): Zzzz
3750 BC (5): Build first scout - renamed to the highly original "First Patrol". Starts out northish.
3700 BC (6): The jungle to the west is checked out by the first patrol
3650 BC (7): Finish road and head to BG to road it next. The road dropped Domestication from time max number of turns to due in 30.
3600 BC (8): The jungle is north and west of us. Scout will go eastish next. (Note to self: Remember this is DYP. Deserts are 2 movement. I can sometimes forget and try to cross a desert thinking it will be fast. )
3550 BC (9): Another Flood Plain. Thats good.
3500 BC (10): Culture expansion. See the sea to the SW (4 squares SW from Jenne is water). Raise Lux to 10%
Scout built. Renamed to Second Patrol...err...except I already moved it. Will name next turn.it will head southish and then eastish. First Patrol spots a hut and a horse! Umm... Ok, what to build next. Not an easy decision. A hardy clan (settler) is 20 turns and 1 population. A regular one is 10 turns and 2 pop. Contact can be big in these games so I may try yet another scout.
3450 BC (11): Popping the hut give us.... A tribe. We also spot another civ. Well that really decides things. Doc says that DYP Civs like to attack, and getting a free tribe seems to be the biggest cause of attacks in normal PTW for me. We will want the defensive units. Also the tribe is within 1 turn of a hill near a Flood plain with horses in the radius. A superb city spot. Second Patrol sees another hut.

The civ is Polynesia and is up by farming. We could use another scouting unit. I may finish the scout before the defensive unit. So my plan is scout-Tribal Guardsman-clan (past the end of my turn).

3400 BC (12): Found Timbuktu. Horses give us +1 food. For that city I think I will be paranoid and MM for shields - Tribal guardsman in 7. Then next hut is empty.

3350 BC (13): Build last scout and rename it "Third Patrol" The mathematically astute reader will notice a pattern...err...except I already moved it. Will name it next turn.
Start a tribal guardsman.

3300 BC (14): Second Patrol finds a nice coastal spot. with an Apple Forest/Orchard and a horse.

3250 BC (15): We seem to have a mostly fertile valley surrounded by jungle, mountains and hills. Enough for several towns though. Doh! Forgot to name the scout again.

3200 BC (16): Glorg! The jungle is north of us as well as west. I was hoping for more nice land.

3150 BC (17): Meet the Celts. Trade Wheel for Farming + 7 gold. Jackpot! The only bonus resource in the valley is within radius of the capitol - Corn for a 4 food square. Ok, I am nervous. A bunch of Polynesian troops have appeared and could cause trouble. See a hut.

3100 BC (18): Fortunately, they turn away. Tribesman due in 1 turn in Timbuktu and we can start growing now. Mongols have appeared on the diplo screen. I think I saw a scout in the between turns. Pop the hut 1 turn before our first military unit is built.

One other note: I haven't yet started using the corn. I want to win the race to domestication so we can catch up in tech. We lose two turns if we switch now. The worker is currently roading it though.

The Third Patrol is now really called the "Third Patrol" and not "Might Someday Become The Third Patrol If I Ever Remember" or MSBTTPIIER for short - which sounds more like a Aztec city name than a proper person name.

3050 BC (19): Finish Tribal guardsman. Not sure what to build next. Will set to warrior for now. Next player can decide if this is what we really want.

3000 BC (20): Our poor scouts are slogging through 2 move terrain.

Notes:
We could buy a tech now, but I think trying to get Domestication first is better.

We now save 1 turn on domestication by not working the corn. I was checking each turn. At some point the switch will no longer cost us a turn and I suspect we are close. Noone has Domestication that I can see yet.

I was thinking a clan next for the capitol. The Guardian is due in one.

Remember roads only allow a move of 2.

Here is our secluded, happy, little valley.

TJ02-3000BC.JPG


The happy little save file

Ok I am a bit tired. Good night all.
 
Popping the hut give us.... A tribe.
[dance]


What a lucky set of turns. Not heading for Farming can really break your neck, but if we happen to start next to 2 EXP Civs, well, easy trade. And Horses near the equator, hadn't really expected it.

Just one thing: Isn't 'Gao' the default name of the Malinese Capital? :confused:


BTW, this is a 'Got it'.

Important rules questions:
I assume we stick to the usuall Lkendter SG rules, plus respecting the rate caps, right?
And 10 turns from now?
 
Originally posted by Doc Tsiolkovski
Important rules questions:
I assume we stick to the usuall Lkendter SG rules, plus respecting the rate caps, right?
And 10 turns from now?
Correct :)

Nice starting turns Greebley :thumbsup:

I can't believe we got a tribe from a hut! [dance]


Ted
 
I actually didn't get the first name because I chose, Settle, then Cancel because I wanted to move th worker first. When I settled a second time "for real" the name Jenne came up. I suspect the first name must have been the lost "default" of Gao.

We definitely discussed and decided on respecting the rate cap. Ted, you may want to put that clearly in the "rules" as it can be SO tempting to use it to not go broke and lose stuff (from personal experience when I over built my army early on).

The tribe was a lucky break all right. I did purposefully try to maximize the chances for it by:

1) Make sure you don't own a settler or have one in production - if you do you will NEVER get a settler.
2) We coulcn't get barbarians since we have no military.

I don't know if there is anything further one can do.

The 3 scouts and then a Tribal guardian worked pretty well for getting the huts in our area. It might not work as well with a smaller map or less land of course, but I think I would try it again in the future.

Kalel,
On the pyramids (mentioned in the other thread), I don't know that I have yet worked out how good or bad they are. Conquests now has something similar. I does extremely useful. Building wondear early is difficult though as it does affect growth. Also since towns cannot grow a big in DYP may mean more flexibility in when you need to start (i.e. wonders take longer to build). Something I need to experiment with I think.

I also really like the balance you have achieved in the early growth of cities in 2.0+. Much improved over 1.5 IMHO. A two thumbs up from me :goodjob: :goodjob:
 
Pre-flight check:
Our Capital is supposed to build a Settler, and our second city a Warrior - not optimal, since the Capital would produce veteran units; but with the free Tribe, that's acceptable. 10% Lux is worse, but the contacts we already have are propably worth it.
Our neighbors are the Celts, Polynesia and Mongols. Could be worse - Gallics and Keshiks are mediocre, and Polynesia has no real UU (the Outrigger is a nice unit for Pelagos, but worthless otherwise). Polynesia is up CB, WC, Masonry and Boat Building, with 100gp. Brennus knows the same, but has only 3gp. Mongols have only WC, Masonry and 33gp.
We research Domestication (due in 6 turns - good decision btw, Greebley), have 45gp and make 2gpt.

Hit Enter.

IBT: Jenne Tribal Guard -> Warrior (need MP).
Turn 1 - 2950BC

Drop Lux to 0%, we're making 3gpt.
1st and 3rd Patrol explore North, 2nd Patrol East.


Turn 2 - 2900BC

First Patrol spots Sugar to the North.
Second Patrol spots Celtic borders to the other side of the Mountain range East. Too close for my taste; this could force us to expand aggressively towards that direction.
Third Patrol find more Jungle, and 1 Rice.
Nothing new on the Tech front.


Turn 3 - 2850BC

First Patrol finds one more Sugar, and spots the Northern coast.
Second Patrol explores towards the Celts.
Third patrol finds Sugar 6 tiles away from our Capital - but 5 Mountain and Jungle tiles, so connecting it will take ages.


IBT: Timbuktu Warrior -> Hardy Clan
Turn 4 - 2800BC

Move the Warrior East to explore the immediate surrounding of Timbuktu.
First Patrol reaches the Northern coast.
Second Patrol has an eye on the Celts.
Third patrol finds more Jungle and is also on the Coast.
Our Worker has completed roading the Corn and moves towards Timbuktu.
MM Jenne to grow in 2 turns.


IBT: Jenne Warrior -> Clan (15 Turns ATM)
Turn 5 - 2750BC

Fortify the Jenne Warrior (need him for MP next turn).
Worker starts Road.
Reg Warrior spots Flood Plains with Rice.
Patrols 1 - 3 find nothing new (more Jungle, more Rice, more Celtic borders)
Domestication is due next turn, but the rate cap doesn't allow us to drop Science below 50% anyway.


IBT: Domestication -> Mining (9 Turns)
Turn 6 - 2710BC

Domestication reveals - nothing :sad: . But to tell the truth, I didn't expect too much with our terrain anyway.
Reg Warrior, First and Third Patrol find nothing of interest. Move Second Patrol 2 tiles within Celtic lands, to verify it is Pyrene (Capital).
Celts and Polynesia know Mining and Slavery, the Mongols now have WC, Masonry, Mining, Boat Building, but lack CB.
Trading time: Domestication is a second level Tech and worth a lot, but with two EXP Civs around, I decide to trade it immediately.

Domestication to Brennus for CB, WC, Masonry and 10gp.
We have 2 Elephants nearby, but no Incense.

CB and 60gp to Temujin for Mining and Boat Building. We have not much use for gp right now, and I'm afraid someone will demand it soon anyway, and I want to deny at least him Domestication as long as possible, since we know nothing about his lands.
We have Iron in the Hill range between us and the Celts, and Gold (which is nearly as important as Iron) near the Sugar at the Northern coast. The Gold should be safe for some time, but the Clan from Jenne should secure the Iron by all means.

Domestication to Polynesia for Slavery and 45gp.

Strategic note: Slavery allows the Slavery SM (1cpt, 1 happy face for only 10 Shields). This allows the construction of the Slave Trade Malinese Wonder: +1 Trade in each tile, and free Slave Markets everywhere (25% Production, 1 unhappy face). Definetely worth it, but we have to pick the right city for the Wonders - having a look at Jenne, it seems like an obvious choice. I prefer to have the Slavery SM in the city supposed to build the Great Library, since the Slave Trade Wonder is by far the best fallbck if someone beats us to the GL.

For any reason, Kahema is now cautious, while the other 2 are still annoyed :confused: .
Ship Slavery to Temu for 20gp. We now have Tech parity with Celts and Polynesia, are ahead of Temujin, and still have 76gp in the bank.
Start research on Weaving (24 turns), this will reveal all Jungle goodies (Silks, Dyes), plus Cotton and Sheep.

MM Jenne to no growth to get the Clan in 6 instead of 9 turns. This does cost us some turns of research (would be only 20 otherwise), but I want the Iron, and once the Settler is build, our research rate would drop anyway.

IBT: Brennus demands us out, no problem.
Turn 7 - 2670BC

Third finds nothing, First finds more Jumbos, Second moves North out of Celtic lands, and Reg Warrior spots Incense - in Polynesian borders. Is this really a large map? I start feeling poached already..



Turn 8 - 2630BC

The Polynesian borders are not expanded, at least. The Scouting Three find nothing worth mentioning.
Timbuktu grows to pop 2, and I switch the Hardy to a regular Clan - it'll grow in time, and the Clan is done in 11 instead of 18 turns. Research time only drops for 1 turn.


Turn 9 - 2590BC

First finds even more Rice, Second Iron in the Mountains N of Pyrene's borders, Third nothing, and the Reg Warrior what should be the ideal spot for our 4th city.


Turn 10 - 2550BC

Something interesting - the Polynesian borders seem to be the unexpanded borders of their <i>new</i> Capital - at least that explains why the Mongols now have 3 cities, including Haraiki...
Polynesia has Bronze Working.

We need to expand like mad with 3 Civs so nearby. At least, Pyrene seems to be on mediocre lands, and the Mongols and Polynesians should be busy fighting each others.
Top priority is the coastal Iron (1 tile NW looks like a great spot), and 1 tile SW of the Rice next to Polynesia.
Don't forget to move the Warrior for MP duty back to Timbuktu. We're already paying unit support, be careful when you make Trades - the 2 Clans will resultin a drastic income loss for some turns. Maybe consider disbanding one or two of the Scouts.
In general, try to keep the Capital on Military (Veterans!), Warriors should do it for now; we need MPs, and the few TGs can be used for border cities. Try to intersperse a Wiseman, and Counselers are really worth it in more remote cities.
We should have some time to grab the Jungle. Lots of Coastal cities is incredibly important, they have huge benefits (Trade, even cheaper Aquaducts),
Granaries are not worth it for initial expansion, but our best city (Jenne, I assume), could need one in preperation of the Great Library build.

Our little Elephant Farm

Edited several times, since I wrote it at home using regular < > html-Tags...if you notice further open tags, well, ignore them
;)
 
Coming along nicely Doc :thumbsup:

Here's the Iron
TJ02-BC2550-Iron.jpg


Yndy's up next. I've sent him a PM as he hasn't checked in yet.


Ted
 
Sorry for the inconvinience with the ss, I currently have no Internet access at home, and no Civ or graphic program at work.

Welcome to the Dyp Mod

I now have decided to not post a 100 page "How to beat DyP on Emperor"-manual.
We have a nice start, all vital resources in reach, so I don't think something like this is really needed for the veteran players in this SG. And I don't want to spoil the fun in expanding your power through the universe of DyP.

If you stumble accross a situation that really would have deserved documentation, please let me know; this could be very helpful for updating the DyP tutorial. Of course, if you have any questions, feel free to answer it here.

Just some small, not-so-obvious points:

* The non-hardy Settler-type units are wheeled, and thus not able to move into Jungle (or Mountains)
* We cannot settle in the Desert, Tundra and Mountains. Of course, we can plant Forrests much later on Tundra and settle there.
* Mining Forrests is a good option, and makes chopping Forrests for Shields only a clear :nono: . Especially since Planting Forrests comes as late as mid-Industrial (City Planning)
* We can irrigate Hills.
* Most Wonders require some sort of prerequisite or even a resource (Incense mainly). Since the "require xxx of y Wonders" don't appear in F6, here are the most important ones:
- Circus Maximus (req. 3x Coliseum): Doubles Colis. We want this, especially since we're neither REL nor have Incense anyway.
- Supreme Court (req. 3x District Courthouse, which in turn requires 3x Courthouse and Water): Free "Courthouse" everywhere
- Echelon (req. 3x Police Station): Free Police Station everywhere
* Please read the Wonders sections of the Civilopedia, it's quite accurate here (in general, the Pedia is correct for the most parts, just don't trust the unit entries); this will tell you that some of the Small Wonders are effectively more powerful than many WoW.
* Marketplaces have no"Marketplace effect"
 
No worries Doc,

I did it for the lurkers :)


Ted
 
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