Éa, a fantasy mod for Civ5 -- teaser thread
- Thread starter Pazyryk
- Start date
rocklikeafool
Warmaster
Any word, Pazyryk, on that alpha? Looks like RL took one to ya, huh? 
You've lots of interesting ideas. It'll be good to see how it all works together. For your next Info post, would you consider the Victory conditions? Will a chosen Technology path make some Victory conditions impossible for some civs?
If you're using a cultural victory based on policies, will civ's get a cultural boost once they can't effectively research any new technologies? At that stage, the civ's character is pretty much defined.
If you're using a cultural victory based on policies, will civ's get a cultural boost once they can't effectively research any new technologies? At that stage, the civ's character is pretty much defined.
rocklikeafool
Warmaster
Clearly exploring a dungeon in Skyrim...
rocklikeafool
Warmaster
So...what you're really trying to say is that you've a real life, and you enjoy it?! Fair enough, sir!
Fair enough, sir!
Pazyryk
Deity
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There won't be any in phase 1 release. Well... there may be Conquest (the kill-everyone victory condition) if I have time. I'll talk about the other four victory conditions as they approach (two in phase 4 and the remaining two somewhat later). Two are sort of political/diplomatic in nature and two are sort of magical/religious.
The point of phase 1 is to work through the new mechanisms and test out their UI and AI, and perhaps do some very rudimentary balancing. Hopefully in a few iterations you'll be able to play through 100-200 turns and try to excel in some area (diplo, culture, gold, military, etc.), but it won't be a "complete game" with victory conditions for a while.
One victory condition requires a few specific high tier techs, and to reach these you will need to do some careful tech planning early in the game. For all other victory conditions, you will see useful tools here and there in the tech tree, but no specific tech is required or essential. So mostly it is pretty flexible.
There is no "cultural victory", though Culture Level has an impact on diplomatic relations (acts as a multiplier on already-good relations) and is particularly powerful in one of the political/diplo victories. [sadly, we can't currently modify relations via Lua, so I'm just stating development plans here]
No. Policies will slow just as techs (though the mechanism is different) and this does lock in your civ's character after a while. With a strong focus on culture or research, it is barely possible to continue to advance in either, indefinitely, but this is in itself a very specialized and defined character for a civ. Most civs (human or AI) will have other pursuits later in the game. The only "progress" in late game is your progress toward victory. The victory conditions are sort of step-wise in nature, so they should give a feeling that something is happening.
Ahriman
Tyrant
Even though victory conditions won't be in the game, when you get to the point of the phase 1 alpha it might be worth outlining what the victory conditions will be, so that people can have some idea of how "progress towards victory" might feel like.
Pazyryk
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I think I'm going to release something on April 13. It's not going to be a true alpha yet... not at all ready for real testing and bug reporting. But, if you are so interested, you will be able to see a lot of the content and new game mechanics. The civ naming and trait acquisition systems are functional (though not all traits/civs are implemented). Cultural Level and the Tech systems (maintenance, diffusion, conquest) are functional. The Great People system is almost fully in place: they can assume leadership and do a lot of GP actions, building Wonders, crafting Epics and so forth. It's pretty cool being able to move a merchant into a foreign city or city state and establish a Trade Route (takes 8 turns and shows progress exactly as a worker build). But there will be a lot of non-functional stuff: techs, policies, buildings and wonders that don't do anything yet, specific AI functions that don't work yet, etc. I'm only releasing it for folks that really want to follow development, or for code vultures who want to pick it over for useful bits.
I suspect that Phase 1 will never really reach a "playable" state, though I hope to get it to the point where I can get some useful feedback from you all. Once Gods & Kings comes out, I'm going to shift development over to that (unless the devs do something really weird like release dll for vanilla but not G&K) and start on Phase 2 regardless of the current status of Phase 1. Phase 2 will introduce a third race and the basic worldviews and religions of Éa.
I won't be releasing anymore formal "info posts" before code release. A few weeks after that I'll start introducing concepts for Phase 2.
I suspect that Phase 1 will never really reach a "playable" state, though I hope to get it to the point where I can get some useful feedback from you all. Once Gods & Kings comes out, I'm going to shift development over to that (unless the devs do something really weird like release dll for vanilla but not G&K) and start on Phase 2 regardless of the current status of Phase 1. Phase 2 will introduce a third race and the basic worldviews and religions of Éa.
I won't be releasing anymore formal "info posts" before code release. A few weeks after that I'll start introducing concepts for Phase 2.
I agree Equites would be nice.
Various names could be
Knights, Cataphracts, Equites, Companion Cavalry, ... hmm, if you can find something else from Rome:Total War let me know ... but I will never forget Hastati and Equites
... my favorites
Various names could be
Knights, Cataphracts, Equites, Companion Cavalry, ... hmm, if you can find something else from Rome:Total War let me know ... but I will never forget Hastati and Equites
... my favorites
Pazyryk
Deity
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No one is interested in my where-was-I-challenge above? (posts 127 & 130) Here are a few hints:
- they are real photos taken by me
- it's in a cave, the name of which you can find on the internet
- you have to swim to get into the cave, and then wade along a river a good deal within the cave
- the skeleton and pot are >1000 yrs old (that's why the skeleton is totally calcified over)
- the skeleton was a teenage girl, who most likely did not die of natural causes
Pazyryk
Deity
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2008
- Messages
- 3,584
Here's some preview of what's coming post-G&K. This is just broad outline, without detailed stats, and is based on how I think religions can be modded to work (which is a lot of guesswork for now).
New Race (very slim chance this will come before G&K)
Sídhe is similar to Man in stature, but ageless and more beautiful. Sídhe start with Hunting and Thaumaturgy. They have low birthrates, resulting in slower and more restricted settler production. However, small populations of the almost-immortal Sídhe generate substantial levels of research and culture. Great people of the Sídhe may become ancient, wise and utterly powerful, but their number will be few.
New Techs
Thaumaturgy and Maleficium are magic techs that open up whole branches of downstream magic techs (culminating in some that are tier 6). Both have writing as sole prerequisite. Thaumaturgy is broadly necessary for deep pursuit of magic of all different sorts. Maleficium specifically deals with the form of magic that consumes Mana, called Sorcery, which differs from other forms that manipulate or channel Mana without consuming it. Some believe that the practice of Sorcery will, ultimately, deplete the sum of Éa's mana causing its annihilation. However, most practitioners of Sorcery ignore or deny this claim (many do not even call themselves "Sorcerers").
Worldviews and Religions
Éa is a new world without established lore or mythology. Many civilizations develop without much concern for any particular worldview or religion. However, other societies acquire a strong worldview and religion that alters their very perception of Éa. Theism and Pantheism define the two broadly opposed worldviews, each represented by a different policy branch and associated with different religions.
Theism This view holds that there is a Creator, called Azzandara, that is Himself Uncreated and existing entirely outside of Éa. Most of the race of Man hold this worldview to one degree or another, and only this race can open the Theism policy branch. Those that worship Azzandara deeply follow the religion Azzandarayasna, which can be founded by the Prophecy of Ahuradhâta by any civilization that has opened Theism. Followers of Azzandarayasna benefit greatly from both Theism policies and the Divine Liturgy research branch (this tech is currently in but it will have many downstream techs culminating in a tier 6 tech). Although theists insist that there is only one God, their teachings describe another being in opposition to the Creator, sometimes called the Anti-Creator or Ahriman the Destroyer. Ahriman is said to be the instigator of all Sorcery, though most practitioners do not acknowledge this connection. However, those that do and embrace Ahriman's destructive purpose follow the religion Aŋra. Aŋra can be founded by the Prophecy of Aŋra by any civilization that knows Maleficium. Alternatively, Aŋra can be founded if the owner of the Azzandarayasna Holy City "falls" (see The Fallen below).
Pantheism To be precise, the view associated with this policy branch incorporates both pantheism and animism. The policy branch excludes both Theism and Agrarianism. The pantheistic worldview is shared by most Sídhe but only rarely by Man. These societies believe that all things are part of divine existence and that there is no separation between physical and spiritual. There is no Creator apart from Éa. All things—trees, rivers, mountains, the Moon, the Elements, even a plague—have divine spirit and are gods in their own right (the smallest of these "little gods" being the Fey). Most pantheistic societies follow the religion The Weave of Éa which honors all Spirits of Éa and has no holy city nor founder (it arises spontaneously in pantheistic civilizations). However, some pantheistic societies differ in the degree to which they honor one or a particular set of Spirits. A few such societies form their own narrowly focused religions. These religions are numerous but not likely to be widespread, and they are not always harmonious with each other. (I'll expand this section later with specific pantheistic religions.)
Devouts (new Great People class)
Devouts occur in a variety of subclasses. Like other GPs, any Devout can take residence in a city or become leader. These actions will contribute Divine Favor (if the civilization follows Azzandarayasna) or Mana to the GP's civilization.
Priests are the primary spellcasters for civilizations that follow Azzandarayasna. They use Divine Favor and cast divine spells that are primarily concerned with healing and protection.
Paladins are also found in civilizations that follow Azzandarayasna. Paladin is a subclass of both the Devout and the Warrior GP classes, so they have some aspects of both (casting spells and acting as great general).
Druids are the Pantheistic counterpart to priests. Druid is a subclass of both the Devout and the Arcane Practitioner GP classes, allowing them to cast both divine and arcane spells (I haven't covered Arcane Practitioners yet). All of their spells involve the manipulation of Mana that is obtained from the various Spirits of Éa, with their particular strengths varying with their civilization's particular religious or arcane focus.
Prophets have one specific action: they make prophecies. Prophecies alter the course of history, either establishing a new religion or having other profound effects on Éa. Each prophet can make only one prophecy at which time they are removed from the map (this is the only GP action in this mod that actually removes the GP).
The Fallen
A civilization "falls" when exactly two conditions are met: the civilization knows Maleficium and someone (anyone) has made the Prophecy of Vâ (see below). At this time, all of the civilization's Devouts and Arcane Practitioners either leave or fall with the civilization. In effect, they all become Sorcerers (Mana-consumers) though they retain their earlier title of Priest, Paladin, Druid, etc. These individuals retain previous abilities, though often in an altered form: Heal becomes Hurt, Call Angel becomes Summon Demon, and so on. When a civilization falls, all Azzandarayasna cities and possibly some non-religious cities become Aŋra cities. If the Azzandarayasna Holy City falls, then that city will become the Aŋra Holy City and its owner will become the Aŋra founder (Azzandarayasna will no longer have a holy city or founder).
Prophecies
Prophecy of Ahuradhâta is the founding prophecy for Azzandarayasna, the religion of those that worship Azzandara the Uncreated. It can be made by a prophet of any civilization that has adopted Theism and does not know Maleficium. Note that the Theism policy branch can only be opened by civilizations of the race of Man.
Prophecy of Mithra can be made if the Azzandarayasna Holy City is lost for some reason—specifically, the city is razed or the owning civ falls. Otherwise it has the same requirement as the Prophecy of Ahuradhâta above. The prophet's civilization will become the new founder of Azzandarayasna and a new holy city will emerge.
Prophecy of Aŋra is the founding prophecy for Aŋra, the religion of those that worship Ahriman the Destroyer. It can be made by a prophet of any civilization that knows Maleficium.
Prophecy of Vâ can be made by any prophet after any civ has learned Maleficium (it can be before or after the founding of Aŋra). The making of this prophecy is neither good nor evil, but is prerequisite in determining Éa's fate: either its destruction in Armageddon or an everlasting protection from that end (two victory conditions). The making of the Prophecy of Vâ causes all civilizations that know or subsequently learn Maleficium to fall (see The Fallen above). Additionally, the Prophecy of Vâ opens all 4th tier techs downstream of Maleficium.
Prophecy of Vî-Nas can be made by a prophet of a civilization that knows Breach (a 6th tier tech downstream of Maleficium). Thereafter, the prophet's civilization will consume massive mana (1000 x mod) each turn.
Prophecy of Mâ prevents any civilization that does not know Maleficium from learning it. (not sure the conditions but it will be mid- to late-game)
Prophecy of Pâiti ...protection?
Many more... some will be more tailored for Pantheism, including founding prophecies for its more narrowly focused religions.
I just added this to the last info post:
On Divine Favor and Mana
Only followers of Azzandara use Divine Favor. All others use Mana. You won't see both in the same empire at the same time. (Technical note: it is likely that both will actually use the new "Faith" yield from G&K, with the mod differentiating how they work and which one is shown in the UI.) Both act as "currency" for spellcasting, though they are accumulated and used in different ways. Divine Favor is accumulated at the civilization level and used by Priests of Azzandara in holy spell casting (it acts as a sort of communal resource for the civ). Mana is generated as a yield, but immediately channeled to some sort of receptacle where it is stored. The receptacle could be some physical artifact (a phylactery or some other magical object) or a person (such as a Wizard or Druid or Fallen Priest). Each receptacle has its own total capacity for Mana storage and limits for "discharge" and "recharge". Normally, the Mana used by a spellcaster is returned to wherever it originally came from (e.g., the "little gods" for a pantheistic society) and is not "consumed" at all. However, when a civ knows Maleficium, all of the civ's spellcasters (of all types) have the "sorcerer" promotion, which means that the Mana they use is simply burned away (i.e., consumed). In this case, Mana is depleted from the sum of all of Éa's Mana, which can never be replenished. Although this sum is quite large, it is finite. Once depleted too far, Éa starts to "come apart at the seems" and eventually falls apart entirely (with some interesting fireworks).
Victory Conditions (these are three of the five total)
Conqueror Conquer or raze all cities.
Destroyer Destroy Éa by the practice of Sorcery, consuming the sum of all Mana (bringing Armageddon).
Protector Protect Éa from the menace of Sorcery: destroy all sorcerers, phylacteries, and other artifacts associated with the practice. Civilizations that know Maleficium must be destroyed or compelled to renounce it.
New Race (very slim chance this will come before G&K)
Sídhe is similar to Man in stature, but ageless and more beautiful. Sídhe start with Hunting and Thaumaturgy. They have low birthrates, resulting in slower and more restricted settler production. However, small populations of the almost-immortal Sídhe generate substantial levels of research and culture. Great people of the Sídhe may become ancient, wise and utterly powerful, but their number will be few.
New Techs
Thaumaturgy and Maleficium are magic techs that open up whole branches of downstream magic techs (culminating in some that are tier 6). Both have writing as sole prerequisite. Thaumaturgy is broadly necessary for deep pursuit of magic of all different sorts. Maleficium specifically deals with the form of magic that consumes Mana, called Sorcery, which differs from other forms that manipulate or channel Mana without consuming it. Some believe that the practice of Sorcery will, ultimately, deplete the sum of Éa's mana causing its annihilation. However, most practitioners of Sorcery ignore or deny this claim (many do not even call themselves "Sorcerers").
Worldviews and Religions
Éa is a new world without established lore or mythology. Many civilizations develop without much concern for any particular worldview or religion. However, other societies acquire a strong worldview and religion that alters their very perception of Éa. Theism and Pantheism define the two broadly opposed worldviews, each represented by a different policy branch and associated with different religions.
Theism This view holds that there is a Creator, called Azzandara, that is Himself Uncreated and existing entirely outside of Éa. Most of the race of Man hold this worldview to one degree or another, and only this race can open the Theism policy branch. Those that worship Azzandara deeply follow the religion Azzandarayasna, which can be founded by the Prophecy of Ahuradhâta by any civilization that has opened Theism. Followers of Azzandarayasna benefit greatly from both Theism policies and the Divine Liturgy research branch (this tech is currently in but it will have many downstream techs culminating in a tier 6 tech). Although theists insist that there is only one God, their teachings describe another being in opposition to the Creator, sometimes called the Anti-Creator or Ahriman the Destroyer. Ahriman is said to be the instigator of all Sorcery, though most practitioners do not acknowledge this connection. However, those that do and embrace Ahriman's destructive purpose follow the religion Aŋra. Aŋra can be founded by the Prophecy of Aŋra by any civilization that knows Maleficium. Alternatively, Aŋra can be founded if the owner of the Azzandarayasna Holy City "falls" (see The Fallen below).
Pantheism To be precise, the view associated with this policy branch incorporates both pantheism and animism. The policy branch excludes both Theism and Agrarianism. The pantheistic worldview is shared by most Sídhe but only rarely by Man. These societies believe that all things are part of divine existence and that there is no separation between physical and spiritual. There is no Creator apart from Éa. All things—trees, rivers, mountains, the Moon, the Elements, even a plague—have divine spirit and are gods in their own right (the smallest of these "little gods" being the Fey). Most pantheistic societies follow the religion The Weave of Éa which honors all Spirits of Éa and has no holy city nor founder (it arises spontaneously in pantheistic civilizations). However, some pantheistic societies differ in the degree to which they honor one or a particular set of Spirits. A few such societies form their own narrowly focused religions. These religions are numerous but not likely to be widespread, and they are not always harmonious with each other. (I'll expand this section later with specific pantheistic religions.)
Devouts (new Great People class)
Devouts occur in a variety of subclasses. Like other GPs, any Devout can take residence in a city or become leader. These actions will contribute Divine Favor (if the civilization follows Azzandarayasna) or Mana to the GP's civilization.
Priests are the primary spellcasters for civilizations that follow Azzandarayasna. They use Divine Favor and cast divine spells that are primarily concerned with healing and protection.
Paladins are also found in civilizations that follow Azzandarayasna. Paladin is a subclass of both the Devout and the Warrior GP classes, so they have some aspects of both (casting spells and acting as great general).
Druids are the Pantheistic counterpart to priests. Druid is a subclass of both the Devout and the Arcane Practitioner GP classes, allowing them to cast both divine and arcane spells (I haven't covered Arcane Practitioners yet). All of their spells involve the manipulation of Mana that is obtained from the various Spirits of Éa, with their particular strengths varying with their civilization's particular religious or arcane focus.
Prophets have one specific action: they make prophecies. Prophecies alter the course of history, either establishing a new religion or having other profound effects on Éa. Each prophet can make only one prophecy at which time they are removed from the map (this is the only GP action in this mod that actually removes the GP).
The Fallen
A civilization "falls" when exactly two conditions are met: the civilization knows Maleficium and someone (anyone) has made the Prophecy of Vâ (see below). At this time, all of the civilization's Devouts and Arcane Practitioners either leave or fall with the civilization. In effect, they all become Sorcerers (Mana-consumers) though they retain their earlier title of Priest, Paladin, Druid, etc. These individuals retain previous abilities, though often in an altered form: Heal becomes Hurt, Call Angel becomes Summon Demon, and so on. When a civilization falls, all Azzandarayasna cities and possibly some non-religious cities become Aŋra cities. If the Azzandarayasna Holy City falls, then that city will become the Aŋra Holy City and its owner will become the Aŋra founder (Azzandarayasna will no longer have a holy city or founder).
Prophecies
Prophecy of Ahuradhâta is the founding prophecy for Azzandarayasna, the religion of those that worship Azzandara the Uncreated. It can be made by a prophet of any civilization that has adopted Theism and does not know Maleficium. Note that the Theism policy branch can only be opened by civilizations of the race of Man.
Prophecy of Mithra can be made if the Azzandarayasna Holy City is lost for some reason—specifically, the city is razed or the owning civ falls. Otherwise it has the same requirement as the Prophecy of Ahuradhâta above. The prophet's civilization will become the new founder of Azzandarayasna and a new holy city will emerge.
Prophecy of Aŋra is the founding prophecy for Aŋra, the religion of those that worship Ahriman the Destroyer. It can be made by a prophet of any civilization that knows Maleficium.
Prophecy of Vâ can be made by any prophet after any civ has learned Maleficium (it can be before or after the founding of Aŋra). The making of this prophecy is neither good nor evil, but is prerequisite in determining Éa's fate: either its destruction in Armageddon or an everlasting protection from that end (two victory conditions). The making of the Prophecy of Vâ causes all civilizations that know or subsequently learn Maleficium to fall (see The Fallen above). Additionally, the Prophecy of Vâ opens all 4th tier techs downstream of Maleficium.
Prophecy of Vî-Nas can be made by a prophet of a civilization that knows Breach (a 6th tier tech downstream of Maleficium). Thereafter, the prophet's civilization will consume massive mana (1000 x mod) each turn.
Prophecy of Mâ prevents any civilization that does not know Maleficium from learning it. (not sure the conditions but it will be mid- to late-game)
Prophecy of Pâiti ...protection?
Many more... some will be more tailored for Pantheism, including founding prophecies for its more narrowly focused religions.
I just added this to the last info post:
On Divine Favor and Mana
Only followers of Azzandara use Divine Favor. All others use Mana. You won't see both in the same empire at the same time. (Technical note: it is likely that both will actually use the new "Faith" yield from G&K, with the mod differentiating how they work and which one is shown in the UI.) Both act as "currency" for spellcasting, though they are accumulated and used in different ways. Divine Favor is accumulated at the civilization level and used by Priests of Azzandara in holy spell casting (it acts as a sort of communal resource for the civ). Mana is generated as a yield, but immediately channeled to some sort of receptacle where it is stored. The receptacle could be some physical artifact (a phylactery or some other magical object) or a person (such as a Wizard or Druid or Fallen Priest). Each receptacle has its own total capacity for Mana storage and limits for "discharge" and "recharge". Normally, the Mana used by a spellcaster is returned to wherever it originally came from (e.g., the "little gods" for a pantheistic society) and is not "consumed" at all. However, when a civ knows Maleficium, all of the civ's spellcasters (of all types) have the "sorcerer" promotion, which means that the Mana they use is simply burned away (i.e., consumed). In this case, Mana is depleted from the sum of all of Éa's Mana, which can never be replenished. Although this sum is quite large, it is finite. Once depleted too far, Éa starts to "come apart at the seems" and eventually falls apart entirely (with some interesting fireworks).
Victory Conditions (these are three of the five total)
Conqueror Conquer or raze all cities.
Destroyer Destroy Éa by the practice of Sorcery, consuming the sum of all Mana (bringing Armageddon).
Protector Protect Éa from the menace of Sorcery: destroy all sorcerers, phylacteries, and other artifacts associated with the practice. Civilizations that know Maleficium must be destroyed or compelled to renounce it.
I like the victory conditions. A game continuing after Armageddon always seemed strange.
In a game with 10 civs, how many AI would you expect to develop Maleficium?
Is there a danger of someone farming sorcerors(reducing the last Fallen civilisation to one city and keeping it alive until they've the numbers for a Protector victory)?
Will the other AI civs react to prevent someone taking that route to victory?
Will there be anything that allows a civilisation to see what Technologies other CIV have researched?
If there is, there's a risk of someone hoarding a prophet to pop the prophecy when they know only one CIV will fall (and which they are better positioned to crush)?
How will the renouncing of sorcery work? Will it be a diplomatic agreement that prevents production of sorcery units, vassalisation or will it remove the Maleficium tech (and dependent techs) from a CIV, giving them a chance to develop an alternative tech?
In a game with 10 civs, how many AI would you expect to develop Maleficium?
Is there a danger of someone farming sorcerors(reducing the last Fallen civilisation to one city and keeping it alive until they've the numbers for a Protector victory)?
Will the other AI civs react to prevent someone taking that route to victory?
Will there be anything that allows a civilisation to see what Technologies other CIV have researched?
If there is, there's a risk of someone hoarding a prophet to pop the prophecy when they know only one CIV will fall (and which they are better positioned to crush)?
How will the renouncing of sorcery work? Will it be a diplomatic agreement that prevents production of sorcery units, vassalisation or will it remove the Maleficium tech (and dependent techs) from a CIV, giving them a chance to develop an alternative tech?
