(2-32) Proposal: Unlock Scouts at Fishing instead of Sailing

[alchx]

Now there is helplessness of pathfinder at the moment when spearmen and archers appear en masse (approximately 30-40 turns). Also, the scout becomes available later than the ability to swim and, having sailed away as a pathfinder to another continent, you can forget about this unit, because it is unlikely that he will be able to survive the next 100-200 turns, before returning home, and lose all the accumulated experience. Scouts can be a good counter to spearmen and archers (especially with regen on the march after 70xp), but they are way too far down the tech tree.

Spearman requires 2 technologies to unlock, Archer requires 3 technologies. Scout requires 5 technologies to unlock.
Pathfinder -20%CS vs Barbarians., Scout -10%CS vs Barbarians

Damage Ratio (Authority, +25%CS against barbarians):
Pathfinder - Barbarian Spearman about 15/70 (screenshot 3)
Pathfinder - AI's Spearman approximately 10/80-85 (screenshot 4)
Scout - Barbarian Spearman about 30/30 (screenshot 5)
Scout - AIs Spearman approx 25/35

In the last game with very active barbarians, two pathfinders walking together were practically helpless after turn 40 - any barbarian spearman became a deadly threat. A scout is quite capable of defending himself.

If you transfer a scout from Sailing to Fishing, then he will be available at the same time as the archer and spearman. On the plus side, the scout is very handy to use in defense or small raids on the enemy - the ability to ignore the terrain penalty makes it a very useful unit when you need to quickly get somewhere and divert attention to yourself before the arrival of stronger defenders. The Pathfinder will just die from one hit.

Spoiler :

 

[Tekamthi]

I don't understand what scouts have to do with either fishing or sailing technologies. I'd probably put it on military strategy if we're moving it up.

 

[alchx]

In Fishing, the scout is located right behind the settler, which is quite convenient. Around turn 28, the city reaches 4 inhabitants and by turn 35 we finish producing a settler (or by turn 28-32 we finish building the Pyramids). You can immediately buy a scout and send it together at the same speed, because. he will not get stuck in the bushes like a warrior or spearman. Plus, units can immediately swim to the neighboring continent. A scout doesn't need barracks or battles to gain experience - he will easily progress just by accompanying a settler.

 

[Tekamthi]

i see the reasoning, in some ways it would be preferable to sailing... i just don't like the scout being on this part of the tech tree regardless of which one of these two techs it lands on. imo gameplay is improved when the technologies are connected to the new abilities they confer... a more powerful recon unit becoming available upon a civ's development of military strategy, for example, makes infinitely more sense than a civ who's recon units somehow became more powerful by fishing. But VP is now a game where calendar leads to archers, so its not unreasonable.

What about the rest of the line? moving scout up would then leave an even longer gap til the next recon unit, wouldn't it?

I might vote for this, but really I'd rather move it soemwhere that made some more thematic sense, and re-arrange the tech tree so this settler pairing was possible.

 

[pineappledan]

With all the recent buffs to the bottom of the ancient/classical trees, please don't give me even less reason to tech the top.

 

[phantomaxl1207]

If not Fishing, how about at Trade?

 

[alchx]

With all the recent buffs to the bottom of the ancient/classical trees, please don't give me even less reason to tech the top.

I liked playing defensive-offensive with this unit - it counters spearmen very well. If you move along the upper branch, developing the fleet, then the player does not have decent land units for 40-80 turns. There are no city walls either.

Scout spawns along with swordsmen, but is weak against them. 5 technologies are too expensive.

 

[Recursive]

I sponsor this.

Proposal sponsored by Recursive.