National Wonder combos

[Laurwin]

Hi guys, what national wonder combos do you guys use? Other than the perhaps obvious ones such as heroic epic+ west point (maybe? because heroic epic suits an early production monster city with a relatively early xp bonus national wonder)

Other combo that I was thinking about was ironworks + red cross, that would allow for the production of medic units. Although ironworks + national epic might be good as well, you get to run extra engineers with ironworks which should help in getting those modern era wonders early. But in most cases national epic would be best served simply in a high food city to run as many scientists as possible and to get the great scientists.

Then there's the shrine city that would get wall street most likely. Other than that, I've never really strategized about the rest of the national wonders, so I tend to not build them most of the time just in case I make a "mistake" with their placement

Oh yeah, and globe theater is excellent for captured enemy capitals I think, with good all round land around them, the only problem that might haunt you, especially if you dont wipe the said enemy off the face of the earth, would be the unhappiness.

 

[bestsss]

Globe - for drafting. What's the point to put in a good city?

Heroic+West point is usually a big no since the turns lost to produce the West Point are simply not produced units. (perhaps if produced real quick IND+Stone + factory/power)
West point most likely to go w/ Red Cross (but I usually dont build red cross either)
In most of my games national epic goes together w/ oxford (i.e. the capital) since there I can build it relatively easy.
Very often I combine iron works and wall street since wall street can be built in reasonable time, also if I get corporations I can build the Es in a single turn (normal).

Heroic epic can be combined w/ National Park but that implies very late national epic (not good at all) or national park w/o forests (still no unhealthy due to flood plains or extra jazz)

 

[Virtual Alex]

Oxford+National Epic
Ironworks+West Point
Ironworks+Heroic Epic
Globe+Oxford/wallstreet (so the city can maximize it's size)

I never build the blue cross. It takes way to long to build.

 

[Senior Tigr]

In my recent games I've seen that I'm quite regularily end with Maoi Statues and Heroic Epic combo. Putting HE into coastal city gives quicker production of naval units as well as land ones, and one hammer for every water tile are effectively 2 hammers per tile when building units. Its also one of two quickest combo which can be set (MS+NE is the other but I don't think there is much synergy in it).
With many units early we can quickly have enough warmongering done to have two great generals to settle there as well, which will make the city the MS+WE+WP combo as effect, with WP still can be build later in, for example, Ironworks+WP city can build military in between the wonders/project or when we are preparing to wipe the strongest opponent in the late game and it will be still . Or WP+military academy+Red Cross somewhere is also an option.
Ironworks+HE in my opinion not so good idea if we want to build something other than units there, as we are wasting HE all time we are not building units and wasting some potential of Ironworks if we are building only units.

 

[madscientist]

There are other threads too, just search.

Some combos I prefer

1) NE + OX in the capital. Often the capital has good food, and OXford helps with all those specialist beakers. If cottaged and in Bureacracy OXford really shines.

2) Moari + West Point. What most people do not realize is WP works on coastal cities too, add a drydock and that's 8 XP, enough for three promotions with a CHarismatic leader. The Moari provide superior production for a coastal city speeding up naval developement and getting WP up.

3) HE and IW I do not put together as it's overkill, and IW can match the HE manufacture of troops.

4) The red Cross can go into any military city, however I tend to favor the Globe Theater city because of the draft. One settled GG can get drafted units with 1 promotion, plus a free medic I.

5) Wall street does not stack that well, I usually prefer it in the corp HQ or best shrine. Sometimes it can stack with the NE, or even better the NP for free merchants with forrest preserves.

 

[Slvynn]

2) Moari + West Point. What most people do not realize is WP works on coastal cities too, add a drydock and that's 8 XP, enough for three promotions with a CHarismatic leader. The Moari provide superior production for a coastal city speeding up naval developement and getting WP up.

This~!
Also try being imperialstic and have multi-mega-super promoted Navy.
Imp > Cha > Agg.
Using it as strategy every game i play.

Edit: I am kinda fan of Imp trait. Warmongering Ahoy. (Cyrus/Justy/Suleiman olololo)

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

July 2009
March 2009
January 2009
Late December 2008
Early December 2008
August 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
July 2006
June 2006
Early June 2006
May 2006
March 2006

 

[Laurwin]

yeah, I remember using heroic epic + moai statues once in a VERY nice production city (I was roosevelt) that was only slightly coastal, it had way more improvable land around it than water tiles, (still 2 seafood) and it was on a river as well so I could churn out carriers and destroyers pretty fast with it.

But I guess if you're the dutch and get into the late game, then a moai statues+ heroic epic + dike...

but I'd still keep ironworks on a fully land city, hopefully with a "perfect production" BCF around it, because that way you can get max hammers out in case you have to go for space ship victory, and it also helps in getting wonders, the job in which a moai statues+ ironworks city wouldn't be as effective.

And in the end I think you really don't need that many ship STACKS as you do land units, so overall you're gonna spend much less hammers on navies on averige than expensive land armies with tanks and stuff (or earlier armies without factories to boost prod).

A couple of carriers with strong destroyer escort is already a very powerful fleet that can take on lots of stuff and support any invasions very effectively. Maybe throw in a few battleships just to be sure that you don't lose carriers though.


BTW:
Regarding the eventual wall street (assuming you're like free market and thus not a communist pig )

Do you guys cottage the wall street or put only farms around it and use merchants?

with full gold multipliers, and maybe also full science multipliers, except maybe academy, would that help at all?

I'm not completely sold on the bureaucracy oxford capital though, mainly because you gotta run at least some scientists to get enough research power to warrant the commerce bonus from that high upkeep civic. Also cottages ONLY has S**T production even with the added +50% hammers so one aspect would be almost totally wasted in that city when youre running scientists with your food/and or low production cottages?! Granted, I'm a bit of a sucker for extreme production, but I've done fairly well on monarch without a bureaucracy + oxford capital!

 

[johnny5000]

For me, Ironworks almost always goes into my capital, and I use it to build wonders and units.
Oxford and Wall Street go together in my highest commerce city, with shrines and corps.
Moai and West Point in highest production coastal city.
Heroic Epic and Red Cross goes in my next highest production city.

Usually I'll save at least once city's forests, build the National Epic there, preserve the forests when I get Scientific Method, and build the National Park when I get Biology.

By the time I'm ready to build Red Cross I can usually knock it out in a couple of turns and have a big enough standing army that I can do without the 2 or 3 units that would have been produced in the time it took to build Red Cross.
I like having the extra medics.

 

[champ82]

1) NE + OX in the capital. Often the capital has good food, and OXford helps with all those specialist beakers. If cottaged and in Bureacracy OXford really shines.

National Epic works specialists and wonders. Bureacracy works and . There is somewhat of a conflict of interest here, a good Bureacracy city has cotteges, a NE city in theory is stuffed with food.

I'm not saying it doesn't work. I'm saying I don't see how it works and I see some problems with it.

2) Moari + West Point. What most people do not realize is WP works on coastal cities too, add a drydock and that's 8 XP, enough for three promotions with a CHarismatic leader. The Moari provide superior production for a coastal city speeding up naval developement and getting WP up.

Interesting.

Moving on, whether to combine HE and IW depends on a few things. Sometimes, if I want/need some late wonders (ones after statue of liberty) I will have a wonder/project city. This is where I’ll build internet and ship parts if I do. Also I subscribe to the idea that the HE should almost always be making units, that’s why the damn thing is there after all. IW can take a while. Then again, in my last game I did it and it worked out well. What can be nice is after military tradition you can have “mini-HE” cities with military academies that can pick up the slack if you decide to build anything other than units in your HE city.

I honestly don’t think any of the national wonders must go with one another. Obviously a lot of food plus national epic and globes theater could be silly (especially if you’re going for cultural victory) and things like this, but it all depends. Maoi can go good with your national epic. It did in my last game, I liked the added production and I wanted a great prophet anyway (and got one.)

BTW I always build
Heroic Epic
National Epic
Maoi
Oxford
Iron Works
Wall St.

The rest are situational. (WARNING : NOT SAYING THE OTHERS AREN'T IMPORTANT, JUST THAT I HAVEN'T SEEN THEM AS ESSENTIAL, QUITE POSSIBLY OUT OF LACK OF KNOWLEDGE ON HOW TO FULLY LEVEREGE THEM.)

Finally, building security bearau, jail, intelligence agency, Scotland yard, library, uni, observatory in a tundra deer forest and then building national park and making representation spies is pretty sweet.

 

[Silu]

BTW I always build
Heroic Epic
National Epic
Maoi
Oxford
Iron Works
Wall St.

The rest are situational. (WARNING : NOT SAYING THE OTHERS AREN'T IMPORTANT, JUST THAT I HAVEN'T SEEN THEM AS ESSENTIAL, QUITE POSSIBLY OUT OF LACK OF KNOWLEDGE ON HOW TO FULLY LEVEREGE THEM.)

Everything else besides Oxford is situational and possibly futile TBH

 

[madscientist]

Champ 82:

When I wonderspam in the capital I settle all the GPs, thus Bureacracy helps the hammer bonus' ALOT of those settled GEs, GP, GSs.....

Regarding the HE and IW wonders, in my current RPC I am building tanks in 2 turns in the HE city without a factory/plant, while the IW city is also popping them out as fast. This is very typical of my late games. Two cities at strong production beats 1 super military producing city. The trade off though is that the GGs get diluted.

I agree with your always wonders list although I have won games missing anyone of those.

 

[Virtual Alex]

I am surprised so many people are even talking about the red cross. I have always felt that it's totally terrible. 1 free medic promotion?

I guess with a barracks and a general you can have Medic II units coming off the line. But how many do you need? 1 per stack. You can easily make 1 medic II units per stack from your HE or WP city without wasting time on the blue cross.

 

[champ82]

Champ 82:

When I wonderspam in the capital I settle all the GPs, thus Bureacracy helps the hammer bonus' ALOT of those settled GEs, GP, GSs.....

Regarding the HE and IW wonders, in my current RPC I am building tanks in 2 turns in the HE city without a factory/plant, while the IW city is also popping them out as fast. This is very typical of my late games. Two cities at strong production beats 1 super military producing city. The trade off though is that the GGs get diluted.

I agree with your always wonders list although I have won games missing anyone of those.

If you want to, show me a save. You have different stratagies than me, I'd like to take a look. No wait...told myself I wouldn't play civ again until I was employed...better not.

Sometimes I exploit buracracy by making my capital a GPF. I build up my national epic in my current capital/future GPF as I build the palace in a more commerce friendly, less food extensive location. Extra points for building great library before NE.

BTW, do you settle great engineers? I sometimes settle prophets (for profits), merchants and maybe scientists (if running rep.) Can't see myself settling a great engineer though. Rushing a wonder in my GPF is just far too tempting. Sometimes even rushing a national wonder like Iron Works (and then, say, grab statue of liberty after that) is nice.

Moving on,

Condensed “Must Have” National Wonder List:

Heroic Epic
National Epic
Oxford
…maybe Ironworks.

 

[madscientist]

Champ, look at my classic RPCs in teh signature. The Bismark and Ramesses games were classic settled specialist games, there may be others I don't remember off hand.

 

[champ82]

Champ, look at my classic RPCs in teh signature. The Bismark and Ramesses games were classic settled specialist games, there may be others I don't remember off hand.

I'll keep it mind, I'll look at them before I play another game, but I really need to get a job.

 

[Calouste]

I am surprised so many people are even talking about the red cross. I have always felt that it's totally terrible. 1 free medic promotion?

I guess with a barracks and a general you can have Medic II units coming off the line. But how many do you need? 1 per stack. You can easily make 1 medic II units per stack from your HE or WP city without wasting time on the blue cross.

For leaders that aren't Agg/Pro/Cha, Red Cross is pretty much the only option for making MedicIII/WoodsmanIII super medics. Normally you need 7 promotions for a super medic, either CombatI or DrillI to unlock MedicI, then MedicI, II and III and WoodsmanI, II and III. That's a massive 30 XP after you deduct the 20XP you get from attaching the Great General. Building a unit in the Red Cross city give you MedicI, but you also don't need the CombatI or DrillI prerequisite, so you only need 5 more promotions, or a far more managable 6XP after the Great General.

 

[Calouste]

If I am running a Specialist Economy and I don't have a shrine, I tend to combine Maoi and Wall Street with an eye on founding Corporations there. Wall Street is fairly expensive, and you also want a Market, a Grocer and Bank in that city, so you need decent production, but you also want good commerce. Coastal squares might not be as good as towns, but a Harbor and a Customs House add to your trade routes, and the food surplus from seafood can be used to run Merchants. And of course more food and additional health from the harbor allows for a larger population, which gives slightly more profitable trade routes.

 

[bestsss]

Why does everyone want commerce in Wall Street?

 

[Laurwin]

There are other threads too, just search.

Some combos I prefer

1) NE + OX in the capital. Often the capital has good food, and OXford helps with all those specialist beakers. If cottaged and in Bureacracy OXford really shines.

2) Moari + West Point. What most people do not realize is WP works on coastal cities too, add a drydock and that's 8 XP, enough for three promotions with a CHarismatic leader. The Moari provide superior production for a coastal city speeding up naval developement and getting WP up.

3) HE and IW I do not put together as it's overkill, and IW can match the HE manufacture of troops.

4) The red Cross can go into any military city, however I tend to favor the Globe Theater city because of the draft. One settled GG can get drafted units with 1 promotion, plus a free medic I.

5) Wall street does not stack that well, I usually prefer it in the corp HQ or best shrine. Sometimes it can stack with the NE, or even better the NP for free merchants with forrest preserves.

Why does everyone want commerce in Wall Street?

so, wall street would pump out the most gold if you have a nice food city with averige production (enought to get the necessary gold multipliers and wall street) and then you would only run merchants and not work any cottages?