A way to use old map sizes?

[Kell Red]

About to start a new playthrough. I remember reading somewhere that map sizes have be adjusted and that gigantic is now only a bit larger than vanilla large. Is there a way I can edit my game to use the old gigantic map size(200x120)? Planing on using World if it matters.

I promise I won't complain if something goes wrong.

 

[Toffer90]

About to start a new playthrough. I remember reading somewhere that map sizes have be adjusted and that gigantic is now only a bit larger than vanilla large. Is there a way I can edit my game to use the old gigantic map size(200x120)? Planing on using World if it matters.

Open "...\Caveman2Cosmos\PrivateMaps\C2C_World.py",
search for WORLDSIZE_HUGE,
two lines below it you will see: "7 : (36, 24)"

Change it to "7 : (51, 34)"

This will make gigantic 204x136 = 27 744

If you want it a tad smaller, do "7 : (48, 32)" which is 192x128 = 24 576 plots.

The minimap is of 3:2 aspect ratio which is why I reccomend keeping the map size to fit that ratio.

 

[Kell Red]

Thank you.
Now, anyone have data to show why I shouldn't use a bigger size? I have a very powerful PC but I know that due to CIV4 being 32bit means it can only use between 3gb and 4gb of memory.
Going play Mastery and just try to take the game as far as I can go. Hope to at least reach Nanotech era before memory errors force me to stop.

 

[raxo2222]

Pit's scenario is slightly bigger than original Gigantic.
There is a lot of trouble to get past Atomic era here.

 

[arihant]

Now, anyone have data to show why I shouldn't use a bigger size?

Here is my last save from pits scenario before save breaking changes. You can test your PC here on older SVN version if you want. I reached there galactic era (if I remember correctly name) and game is crashing every turn.

 

[raxo2222]

20 MB, wow its big save

Pit thinks he will be able to play with multimaps on that save.

 

[Kell Red]

Damn...
Standalone C2C game made in Unity when? >.>

 

[raxo2222]

Damn...
Standalone C2C game made in Unity when? >.>

No idea, but watery Gigantic map or regular Standard/Large sized maps should be good enough.
So you can update to latest SVN and test Gigantic sized C2C World generated map and see how far you will go before MAFs.

 

[Kell Red]

I decided I'm going play it safe and stick to the new Gigantic size. Halfway through prehistoric era and I was already getting slow downs I didn't usually get until the classical era. (Was also playing with 24 instead of 16 civs).
Is there anyway we can make the mod 64bit? Being able to use more RAM would open up more boundaries.

I don't know if you guys care about profit, but a standalone remake could allow income in 2 ways.
1) If the game is different enough, you may be able to charge for it.
2) You can keep the game itself free but you can sell any custom assets made for the game to help other make their games.
If neither of those would be acceptable then maybe a Patreon for donations.

 

[raxo2222]

Is there anyway we can make the mod 64bit? Being able to use more RAM would open up more boundaries.

Nope, you would have to make new game.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I decided I'm going play it safe and stick to the new Gigantic size. Halfway through prehistoric era and I was already getting slow downs I didn't usually get until the classical era. (Was also playing with 24 instead of 16 civs).
Is there anyway we can make the mod 64bit? Being able to use more RAM would open up more boundaries.

I don't know if you guys care about profit, but a standalone remake could allow income in 2 ways.
1) If the game is different enough, you may be able to charge for it.
2) You can keep the game itself free but you can sell any custom assets made for the game to help other make their games.
If neither of those would be acceptable then maybe a Patreon for donations.

Would love to do a remake but we don't have the skillset to do so. When we have, those who were capable were daunted by how large the task would be. Perhaps eventually someone among us will find a way. I'd be prepared to work out base game changes that would justify a new game engine if we were to commit in that direction. Still, I think it would be at least a year of this project going dark and full time commitment and finding a way to remain financially supported throughout that time to be able to make this happen. Or 10 years if I'm going to keep working around a full time job during the design process.

 

[raxo2222]

Would love to do a remake but we don't have the skillset to do so. When we have, those who were capable were daunted by how large the task would be. Perhaps eventually someone among us will find a way. I'd be prepared to work out base game changes that would justify a new game engine if we were to commit in that direction. Still, I think it would be at least a year of this project going dark and full time commitment and finding a way to remain financially supported throughout that time to be able to make this happen. Or 10 years if I'm going to keep working around a full time job during the design process.

Thrive and Ancient Cities would be good places to recreate Caveman2Cosmos in decade.
First one is meant to be spiritual successor of Spore but better, and other one is city builder.
Thrive begins at beginning of life and is built upwards.
Similarly Ancient Cities starts at Neolithic and its timeline will be extended era by era.

Essentially Caveman2Cosmos is that "punk" stuck with primitive technology.

 

[Somebody613]

Pit's scenario is slightly bigger than original Gigantic.
There is a lot of trouble to get past Atomic era here.

Is this because there are several players crowding the map, or would it happen even if I'm the only one alive and still spamming cities all over the place?
What exactly eats up the memory the most (and gets exponentially increased over time) - is it cities, units, building queues, etc?

 

[raxo2222]

Is this because there are several players crowding the map, or would it happen even if I'm the only one alive and still spamming cities all over the place?
What exactly eats up the memory the most (and gets exponentially increased over time) - is it cities, units, building queues, etc?

Its because of memory usage.
Everything uses memory - mostly units and buildings.
Cities themselves affect end of turn processing time.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Is this because there are several players crowding the map, or would it happen even if I'm the only one alive and still spamming cities all over the place?
What exactly eats up the memory the most (and gets exponentially increased over time) - is it cities, units, building queues, etc?

Like raxo said mostly units and buildings and number of cities on the map. Since you use Pit's expanded Gigantic map with all his AI you are going to experience the EoT slowdown faster than other players who use the more moderate maps sizes and number of AI.

If you would step down 2 map sizes to Huge and drop 1/4 to 1/3 of the starting AI, then your EoT would stay manageable much longer.

And this problem has been around long before Pit made his scenario. It 1st really raised it's head when the 50 Civ dll ( 48 Ai, 1 Barb Ai and player) was 1st made and used in mods. Since we have made 10 AI be NPC and reduced the load to 40 (actually 39 Playable iirc) it has allowed scenario's like Pit's to play longer.

If you would play a Large map with default # of AI your Eot, even on Eternity GS (but preferably on any GS faster than Snail) would significantly improve. Maybe try a game with these parameters? You will notice a big difference in performance.

 

[Somebody613]

Like raxo said mostly units and buildings and number of cities on the map. Since you use Pit's expanded Gigantic map with all his AI you are going to experience the EoT slowdown faster than other players who use the more moderate maps sizes and number of AI.

If you would step down 2 map sizes to Huge and drop 1/4 to 1/3 of the starting AI, then your EoT would stay manageable much longer.

And this problem has been around long before Pit made his scenario. It 1st really raised it's head when the 50 Civ dll ( 48 Ai, 1 Barb Ai and player) was 1st made and used in mods. Since we have made 10 AI be NPC and reduced the load to 40 (actually 39 Playable iirc) it has allowed scenario's like Pit's to play longer.

If you would play a Large map with default # of AI your Eot, even on Eternity GS (but preferably on any GS faster than Snail) would significantly improve. Maybe try a game with these parameters? You will notice a big difference in performance.

You are conflating two totally separate factors: the number of units and the number of map plots.
Like I said (and probably not the first time) - I'm playing in such a way that there are NO "40 other civs" on the map, because I wipe them off soon enough.
On the other hand, I do like building tons of MY cities, though that hardly raises a number of units, because I usually have just one per city.
In fact, I think my cities take up (and that's the idea) more unit-producing map space from barbs and animals, than the number of units I produce instead of them.
So the map-total number of units is actually LOWER this way.
But on the other hand, I still didn't find out whether the map's SIZE itself affects the memory or the end-turns.
Not how CROWDED it would get overtime - but the map plots themselves, maybe some per-turn calculations or something.
So, @raxo2222, can you please explain that part explicitly - what is the effect of the map size ITSELF, regardless of what's ON the map?
Let's say it's an empty map with just one city on it (which I had played in the past as well) - so would the map size affect the game play, and how/why?
Thanks.

 

[raxo2222]

You are conflating two totally separate factors: the number of units and the number of map plots.
Like I said (and probably not the first time) - I'm playing in such a way that there are NO "40 other civs" on the map, because I wipe them off soon enough.
On the other hand, I do like building tons of MY cities, though that hardly raises a number of units, because I usually have just one per city.
In fact, I think my cities take up (and that's the idea) more unit-producing map space from barbs and animals, than the number of units I produce instead of them.
So the map-total number of units is actually LOWER this way.
But on the other hand, I still didn't find out whether the map's SIZE itself affects the memory or the end-turns.
Not how CROWDED it would get overtime - but the map plots themselves, maybe some per-turn calculations or something.
So, @raxo2222, can you please explain that part explicitly - what is the effect of the map size ITSELF, regardless of what's ON the map?
Let's say it's an empty map with just one city on it (which I had played in the past as well) - so would the map size affect the game play, and how/why?
Thanks.

Bigger map -> more land tiles -> more AIs and more cities -> more units and buildings.

Very wet maps may see less cities, units and buildings.

 

[Thunderbrd]

There ARE fairly sizeable packages of data per plot, regardless of if anything is on the plot or not. There are a few round by round checks and processes per plot as well, though probably not nearly as many as cities, players, and units. So yes, even with just one city and one unit on a map, even if all spawning is turned off, the larger the map, the greater the slowdown and the closer you approach to running out of data. But it's much less impactful than units figuring out what they need to do, spawning, player and city AI choices etc...

 

[Somebody613]

Again, "too many AIs" is NOT a factor in MY games more often than not.
In fact, my typical (and should be known by now) strategy is to play on such easy levels that I can wipe everyone else in no time, getting their Cultures in the process.
Heck, if not for that, I'd be playing a one-player Earth to begin with - and I had tried a few times to do precisely that, but then just got bored.
And you know what?
I actually think I will start a new "clean map" game in Eternity just for the fun of it.
In a sense, by the way, it could be seen as an attempt to recreate "real life history", since you don't start with several human "civs" in it, lol.
Yeah, not a bad idea.
I can always continue my "full map" save later, after all.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Again, "too many AIs" is NOT a factor in MY games more often than not.

Again all 3 of us have tried to explain to you the elements that will make for slow downs.
We understand that you wiped every one else out. Or almost "Again, "too many AIs" is NOT a factor in MY games more often than not."

But you stated " would it happen even if I'm the only one alive and still spamming cities all over the place". Yes because of the very size of the map and all it's plots. Then add in the number of cities and All the buildings being built in each one, even if empty. But I doubt they are empty because then you would have eventually rampant Crime and Disease. Which would require "some" LE and Health units per city. And I imagine you have many worker units developing plots. All on the Biggest map ever made for C2C. And on the Slowest Game speed too.

If you wish to mitigate the slowdowns we have also given you examples of how to do so.

The choice is yours.