King Kruhl
Chieftain
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2003
- Messages
- 23
Well it makes me loath the pathetic little AI civs and at that point all mercy is suppressed. They should call it the prolonging the inevitable cheat.
King Kruhl
King Kruhl
AI cheating
- Thread starter alsoDavo
- Start date
gen.dragolen
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2002
- Messages
- 93
KK,
What you are seeing is the application of the rules of the game. The AI doesn't need to cheat since they are just able to do everything, while we lowly players have a hard time remembering what we were going to do to a specific city at the end of the turn.
And yes, the AI will win stupid battles that they should loose, all in the name of making the game playable.
However, as some of the MP gamers are finding, it is a RISK like system that has more to do with luck than units or tactics. All we can do is mod it or patiently wait for Civ4. Personally, I mod the heck out of it and have fun play testing.
D.
What you are seeing is the application of the rules of the game. The AI doesn't need to cheat since they are just able to do everything, while we lowly players have a hard time remembering what we were going to do to a specific city at the end of the turn.
And yes, the AI will win stupid battles that they should loose, all in the name of making the game playable.
However, as some of the MP gamers are finding, it is a RISK like system that has more to do with luck than units or tactics. All we can do is mod it or patiently wait for Civ4. Personally, I mod the heck out of it and have fun play testing.
D.
It was an interesting story King and feel free anytime to drop by and scare my neighbors to death. They seem rather unafraid, you could say contemptuous of me. Just the other day the Romans accused me of not having a backbone. I would have showed them that I did but they had a spearman and I only had a tank. Probably would have been a good time to have Pynhus hurry production. 
King Kruhl
Chieftain
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2003
- Messages
- 23
ROFL....
Ohhhhhh the hopelessness
I bow to the mighty spearman
KK, the last question I think depends on what level the game is. I remember I got the same question like you in deity. So, I played the CivIII 1.07f and reveal the map. So, I realized in deity after AI build its capital several warriors, workers and settler came up from their capital in the first turn. Or when I just played SID level with the capture princess on, I was suprised to see that more than 10 pikeman/warrior/archers guarded the city where the princess is on (I sent all my units around 10 legioners direct to its capital, and still couldnt take the capital). Its an advantage of AI on higher level (at least in this case). However, In some very few cases, AI does cheat.
rychan
CS geek
Heheh.. the AI cheating has been documented fairly well. I don't have a link to the forum post, though.
I saw an excellent example a few days ago. England is completely wiped out- no cities left (histograph confirms this), but they have a settler + spearman wandering through my territory. (I'm not the one killing them). I open diplomacy with them. They have 4 gold.
They found a city the next turn right in the middle of my core cities. (I didn't know you COULD found a city in someone else's culture. It was even a square that within working range of a city). This triggers war automatically, I suppose. Suddenly they have two spearman and two archers pouring out of their city to attack me... hehe...
But that's a well documented cheat, they get free units with cities. It's just funny to see it happen right before your eyes.
I saw an excellent example a few days ago. England is completely wiped out- no cities left (histograph confirms this), but they have a settler + spearman wandering through my territory. (I'm not the one killing them). I open diplomacy with them. They have 4 gold.
They found a city the next turn right in the middle of my core cities. (I didn't know you COULD found a city in someone else's culture. It was even a square that within working range of a city). This triggers war automatically, I suppose. Suddenly they have two spearman and two archers pouring out of their city to attack me... hehe...
But that's a well documented cheat, they get free units with cities. It's just funny to see it happen right before your eyes.
MiChello
De la Boucle
It is possible, you can try it yourself, but IF you do it, you'll end up with a war (if you didn't have one allready, that is).
TheNiceOne
Emperor
...and you have checked that this is a cheat, right?
For the record, have you heard about pop rushing a defender? This is actually something the AI uses, and is no cheat.
Surely. Just send me the save, and I can try.The Mayans were the only Civ close to me in size and in being so they were the target of my next phase of world domination. Just as my Berserkers were born, I established an embassy in the Mayans capital to see how difficult of a fight it was going to be. I was SHOCKEDto see the Mayans had amassed not just a few Musketeers but rather a Multitude of them, roughly 10 per city. Oh ya, I also knew the Mayans had the Knights Templar but they had just completed it about 15 20 turns earlier, yet the number of Crusaders they had built was way beyond 20 turns worth. Within 10 turns of this discovery The Mayans not only initiated the war with me but they had effectively reduced my Civilization by 50%
. I was amazed at the stack after stack of troops that marched across my once rich and growing Kingdom.
OK, can one of you Ripleys explain those to me??
What I can say for sure though, is that except for production bonuses on levels above regent, there AI did not produce those units by cheating. The AI has been checked and rechecked so many times by experienced players, and every time such claims as yours are found not to be cheats, but rather inexperienced players who think everything they don't understand must be AI cheats.
Face the fact: Except for knowledge (the AI knows the map, position of units etc.) and probably some diplomacy, the AI don't cheat. If you insist that it cheats, please provide some evidence, not only stories that are impossible to check.
TheNiceOne
Emperor
..or rather, the fact that the AI don't cheat much has been documented well...
When the AI has no cities, but at least one settler, it is programmed to immediately build a city with that settler, so in your case, the last English city was wiped out, and its last settler built a city ASAP, which happened to be inside your territory. This is no different than what human players can do, although the human player would probably look for a spot where he don't start a war. So no cheating here.
It is well documented that the AI on the levels above regent get some additional units at game start - or rather any time they found their "first" city. This turns out to be in three different situations:
1) When they found their real first city at the start of the game.
2) When AI respawn is turned on, and an AI is wiped out and respawned.
3) When all cities of an AI is wiped out, but it has a settler left to build a new capital.
In short, they get their bonus units whenever they build a capital.
In your case, 3) happened, and since you play on a difficulty level where the AI get bonus units when founding its capital, it got what you saw.
The AI does not get bonus units when founding other cities, so there's no cheat involved, only the bonus you have selected yourself with your difficulty setting.
supaguruzebidy
Kill,Kill,Kill,Kill,Kill!
I dont know if this is in anyway connected here but I find that modern armour with a defense of 16 seems to always outperform mech infantry with a defense of 18 does this have anything to do with rate of fire????I notice that the unit shown in a city on the map is always the best defender and when you put modern armour in a city with mech infantry it always replaces it as the unit shown.
supaguruzebidy
Kill,Kill,Kill,Kill,Kill!
Nah both the same.veteran.
TheNiceOne
Emperor
It has nothing to do with rate of fire. The unit shown is the best defender, but the best defender is the one that has the best combination of hit points and effective defense value. If thir hit points are equal and the modern armor is shown, then you must have fortified the MA and not the MI, which increases the MA's defense.
There is also a bug that I've encountered 2-3 times during my entire CIV3 career, which results in the second-best unit being displayed as defender, but when the square is attacked, the best suddenly appears and defends. It doesn't seem like this bug here, so its probably that you fortified the MA and not the MI.
In every situation where I thought the AI was cheating, I came on here and had it explained to me. In every case it was either a programming thing to stop vast AI calcs (such as the AI knowing the entire map from the start) or a quirk with the game mechanics. I mean, can you imagine the amount of AI routines the game would have to chug through to convince the human player the AI doesnt know where all the prime land is? It would slow the game to a crawl.
The RNG is well known to be fickle on your side and the enemy. Now I've played a lot more games and seen many incidents of wholly improbable combat results in MY favour I think the RNG does even out over time. Since I had a single Rifleman survive an entire Knight Army (8 units plus a 3 unit Army) on his own, in the open on plains I have to say that I have seen both ends of the spectrum now.
One thing I think is an outstanding issue (somebody correct me here) is if the AI already knows where all the strategic resources that appear later in the game are going to spawn. Has this been cleared up yet?
The RNG is well known to be fickle on your side and the enemy. Now I've played a lot more games and seen many incidents of wholly improbable combat results in MY favour I think the RNG does even out over time. Since I had a single Rifleman survive an entire Knight Army (8 units plus a 3 unit Army) on his own, in the open on plains I have to say that I have seen both ends of the spectrum now.
One thing I think is an outstanding issue (somebody correct me here) is if the AI already knows where all the strategic resources that appear later in the game are going to spawn. Has this been cleared up yet?
King Kruhl
Chieftain
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2003
- Messages
- 23
For the record, it took less than 25 posts before I was given a snippety and rude reply.Originally posted by TheNiceOne
...and you have checked that this is a cheat, right?
For the record, have you heard about pop rushing a defender? This is actually something the AI uses, and is no cheat.
For the record, it took less than 25 posts before I was given a snippety and rude reply.
Well, what a person may consider cheating is not always an analytical and literal representation of the concept but rather an emblematic stance. Whether or not it is literal in this case dose not matter at this point.
I would be happy to send you evidence as you state. The only problem is that I no longer have the saved file. See, I usually have two files for every civilization that I play as. The first file is always saved at the very first turn of the game, and the second file is used throughout the play of the game. Each Civilization has unique sets of files. When the game gets to a point that either A) a stale mate is developing or B) I am going to get my butt kicked, I will start a fresh game. When I do this, the old game gets over written with a new file. Because IMHO the only reason to play a game is to win, not to spend endless hours of time for nothing. Since I have started a new game as the Vikings, the evidence no longer exists. With that in mind lets me say this, the Vikings suck and I was play as them to see If I could get such a pathetic Civilization to prosper.
What level do I play..?
Monarch, Standard map, everything else is randomized.
P.S. I will start saving a third file and cal it not so nice proof
TheNiceOne
Emperor
First, I'm sorry if I came around too rude. But what I reacted to is that you did what quite a few players do: When something happens that they don't fully understand, they immediately conclude that its a cheat. I answered to one of your post where you stated that the AI cheats, and I honestly think it deserves a bit of sarcasm when you call cheat without any testing, proof or analysis.
I see you now write that whether or not it is a cheat does not matter. This I don't understand at all. First you tell about a situation and call cheat, and then I explain (although a bit rude) that it was no cheat, but a smart move by the AI, and then you write that whether it is a cheta doesn't matter. Why?
I do believe that its unintentional that you lack any proof, but exactly this situation happens every time someone writes that he was cheated on: noone manages to provide any proof.
I would be happy to send you evidence as you state. The only problem is that I no longer have the saved file.
[Reason snipped]
P.S. I will start saving a third file and cal it not so nice proof
I think the reason is that its mostly less analytical players who believes there are such cheats as you describe. More analytical players will make a save of the situation and/or analyze it before concluding that the AI cheats. And when they do so, they find that its not a cheat - simply because the AI don't cheat with production, combat or similar aspects of the game.
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