ALC Game #25: Celts/Boudica

[madscientist]

I am an emperoro/Monarch player but everything I have read on these forums seams to suggest settling ontop of a strategic resource this early. Put the city ontop of the copper and start on a monument. Once you soem seafood, build a barracks and some axes and kill Saladin. Decide on mansa later.

Boudica, early copper, decent food, slow starting Sal??? Go get em'!

 

[Wilhelmus]

I made a dotmap for the western peninsula:



Copper dot: Copper/Wheat city: one NE of the copper
After Medina is taken, the west is cut off and can be settled at will:
Golden dot: Gold/Marble/Wheat city 1 SW of Marble.
Light blue dot: Fish/Spice city 1NW of fish.
Dark blue dot: Fish/Cow city 1NW of fish.

In the east one or two riverside cities are possible, for post levee production centres. Exact location depends on removal of fog, and proximity to Mansa Musa.

1) Research Agriculture
2) Settle copper city, build barracks
3) Improve Copper
4) Improve Wheat
5) Defeat Saladin

 

[Peachrocks]

Saladin again!? How many games in a row has he been in now...

Oh well... with Boudicas mediocre teching abilities you dont wait til cats to chop Saladin's fingers off with your weapon of choice (Gallic or Axes). There's a chance he might get Longbows or worse Crossbows by then and we all know what happens after that, particularly with him being Protective.

Mansa I believe will trade even if you are alone with him but I too suspect there's somebody else around.

Kazaap: I should have said no tech brokering will hurt even more than usual playing Boudica .

 

[madscientist]

Regarding Mansa and trading. He willt rade with you if you are the only 2 arround but his demands are rather excessive especially if he's dealing from a position of strngth (techwise). My suggestion with him is to get Fuedalism fast and vassal him early. The dictate to him what to tech.

 

[AndrewN]

Oh well, you have missed the chance of Stonehenge and I suspect the game is lost now

For settling the copper city I was in two minds, both on the copper and 1NE have their advantages, but Wilhelmus's dot map sealed it for me. The land on the Peninsular is not the best and 1NE is much better for building other cities. It will take longer to get it on line, but in the long term will give better cities while you are waiting for defeat.

There is also two good cities to the East, one taking 2 deer and wines and one for cattle and elephants, plus the two cities prebuilt for you and you will have a nice core.

 

[kazapp]

Did I miss something or didn't you chop anything else besides a Settler?

Of course you should Axe Rush Saladin - his capital isn't even on a hill. Don't wait for anything, not Gallic Warriors, not Catapults, and don't build any more Settlers - take the arabian cities instead.

With Gold and Ivory Sal's lands seem very attractive. Don't let anyone talk you out of taking these lands for yourself asap!

 

[Artichoker]

Since the target timeframe for development is the Classical Era, this means pre-Civil Service.

So that Copper city will be food-poor, regardless of where you settle it. However, if you settle the city directly on the Copper, you gain the resource immediately while also grabbing the bonus production from the city tile.

How many hammers does settling on a Copper Plains Hill tile give you? 2 or 3? I'm not sure, but the bottom line is that you get those hammers without incurring a food deficit. If you have surplus food (which will be tough already), then it means you can work an extra Plains Hill or Grassland Hill tile.

 

[Kev]

Once you take Medina I'm wondering if you might want to even move the capital there. Bit more central, and it would be a great cottage capital under Bureaucracy. Gold there is nice too!

I'm with the NE crowd for the second city. You still would like to have a barracks, and that can be done while the copper is being hooked up.

I'd keep checking with Sal to see if he gets writing sometime soon and can open borders for scouting.

How great would it be if he's building Stonehenge? Not only could you get the nice wonder, but it means he spent hammers on that rather than units!

 

[scottvwgti]

Settle 1NE of the copper, built 8-10 axes, and take Medina!

 

[Bandobras Took]

On the copper will let you build the troops that much sooner. I'm not convinced that the fish/spice city on the dot map is that great a city, anyway. Get the troops online and go kill Saladin before he starts plunking down his double-culture libraries and putting the squeeze on you.

 

[JTMacc99]

Well, the axe rush and complete elimination of Saladin seems to be the one and only thing we need to accomplish right now. Let's face it, his two cities are in most excellent commerce generating spots, which is EXACTLY what Boudica needs to keep the war machine running in that period of time between Iron Working and Guilds/Banking. With her, I find it is pretty easy to kill off the close neighbors before Gunpowder, but it becomes very difficult to manage the economy. I see no reason why this game would be any different. Killing off Saladin will also probably slow down the other guy's research a bit, which will hopefully be a good thing.

I think I like the idea of settling on the copper better than the dotmap's suggestion. It will be a much better city in the long run, and more importantly, it will take fewer tiles from Medina. (Medina, I will second the opinion voiced above, will be a very good canditate for the new capital and could probably carry the economy for centuries after Civil Service.) Settling on the copper would mean you could settle a city 1E of the mountain/1N of the cow, which will pick up a lot of that river as well as have some nice production (I see two grassland hills) tiles. (Downside=Volcano Zone.)

The yellow city on the dotmap (with the gold and marble) will probably become a very important city, as it sure looks like at least one strategic resource is going to be in the BFC.

 

[Molon Labe]

I think axe rushing protective Sal will be difficult with the land Sis rolled. I'm quite often wrong though, so it could probably be done. Waiting for Cats is crazy, but IW will unlock a UU that I've rushed with effectively.

I've taken out protective leaders with them, and it hurts, but those who lived got very nice promotions and I got a lot of use out of them later.

You will need techs for food and economy and should pursue them. I would also advocate masonry for the UB and promotion and IW for the UU. As to pulling that off on Immortal with this land, I'll let you show me.

 

[Gliese 581]

It seems most people agree that rushing Saladin is for the best with this poor land we're otherwise left to use.
The question is where to settle copper city.

On top of copper hooks it up the fastest but it also loses 4 hammers which is quite a substantial loss mid-term. It gives the hill defensive bonus, but we're about attacking here, not defending. OTOH on low levels (size 6-7) it still gives roughly the same hammer output as not settling on the copper so for a rush with only axes it can be viable.

1N Get's the cow initially but Medina is going to steal it until we get a monument +15 culture and then a few extra turns possibly (haven't calculated) to steal it back. This will slow down growth considerably and leave the city handicapped for some time. It also wastes a forest. AH is also a more expensive tech to research than Agriculture.

1NE Gives a few less grasslands overall long term but can get 20 production at size 7 (didn't count city tile itself before) or 19 at size 6, which is great for an early rush. It can also work the wheat tile from the start with the research of Agriculture.

I think if you go for IW and gallic warriors which is my recommendation, settle the city 1NE of copper.
If you go for quickest possible axe-only rush, settle on copper.

Waiting for construction seems dangerous and unnecessary here with no other really good commerce spots (gold city would be pretty crappy) and lacking ivory for WEs. I don't think you should do this.

 

[Ultimocrat]

I think the guerrilla promotions are the way to go with the Gallic warriors -- there's a line of hills leading straight into the heart of Arabia. You might want to go straight for Mecca -- the approach can be done all on hills -- so no need for a shock axe defender. Doing this makes sense to me because Medina is such a production-poor city, that waiting to take it won't be as penalizing in terms of newly-produced defenders.

 

[Quotey]

UU Rush means swords and that means CG2 + Walls + Cultural defences. Looks like no Guerilla Warfare here.

 

[oyzar]

He techs IW after fishing and wheel.. He will barely hook up copper / get barracks up before he'll start pumping out gallics.. No way to rush before the AI get walls at any rate...

As mansa will trade with you even if it is just you and him you should have no qualms about wiping out saladin(although it might be hard if he have some cities on hills).

Whatever axes/gallics he build should go out barbhunting for that tantalizing 1 xp for level up before you rush... Might be hard to find barbs though...

 

[Fetch]

RE: Dotmap.

Kinda sketchy land on that western peninsula. Maybe wait till IW comes around and hope it can help you out. Not a lot of production in the coastal cities with Wilhelmus' map. Kill Saladin and backfill. The copper site is where I'd put it also.

Re: barb-hunting.

Animals should be around somewhere.

 

[oyzar]

Not actually going to settle any other cities than the copper city before taking out saladin so it'll be interesting to see which of his cities we'll keep...

 

[Bird Brain]

Does Saladin have writing yet? Probably not, but it would be nice to look around his land a bit to see if Mecca is on a hill. That would help determine whether we go with axes or gallic warriors . . .

Given what we know rushing with axes seems like the safer bet. Saladin is at his weakest now, and Sis has easy access to the copper. Delaying for IW might not be worth it if Saladin throws up some cheap city walls and pumps out the protective archers. If you're really lucky he's happily building Stonehenge right now.

I'd love to see the manly gallic warriors in action here to showcase the UU, but that may not be the best strategy given Sis' current position. Still, after Saladin's through maybe Sis will find another vict . . . er . . . playmate for the UU.

 

[oyzar]

I would build the city E of the copper for the extra hammer as that cow is not going to matter any time soon...