Ancient Towers

AngelGabriel

Warlord
Joined
Jul 24, 2007
Messages
110
Sorry for asking but: What are Ancient Towers? Why are they everywhere on the map and what can I do with them? I tend to destroy them with workers and everytime I get a bad feeling what I might have missed. Clarity please :)
 
Just added sight range and added defense bonus. It´s just a good spot to pass by with scouts, once it deep within your border you have very little use for it.
 
They are supposed to represent ruins from previous civilizations, like Patria.

They boost a unit's line of sight when on the tile, although unfortunately forests and such still block their sight. There is also a small defensive bonus.


When worked, they slowly upgrade to forts.
 
The towers have always sort of bugged me... it seems like they should do more. Anyone have any suggestions as to what would be cool but not so powerful as to screw up game balance?
 
One idea might be that they could function as excavation sites, who boost commerse a bit, that then gets ugraded to something useless after being worked for a while. But just fear that the AI city worker allocater wont get such a thing.
 
they were orinigally intended to be part of a wall-defence system to be buildable by workers, but apparently the AI didn't have a clue how to build a decent perimeter, so the idea was scrapped. The walls are gone, but the tower remains.
 
They are supposed to represent ruins from previous civilizations, like Patria.

They boost a unit's line of sight when on the tile, although unfortunately forests and such still block their sight. There is also a small defensive bonus.


When worked, they slowly upgrade to forts.

It makes sense, then, that they might be explorable (with outcomes in the range of lairs rather than dungeons), but that's more of a modmod proposition rather than a change to "vanilla" FfH2.
 
Why only the Amurites? Why not Sheaim, too? Why any advantages (especially for only a few cultures) at all? Why not removing those ancient towers completely?
 
Why not removing those ancient towers completely?
I find them both useful and flavorful. I would hate to see them removed. (I would like to the see fixed the bug that causes a ring of permanently cleared fog of war when a tower is pillaged. It's fixed in FF, although I don't know if that solution can be transferred to FfH2.)
 
Make them a new kind of worker removable feature. Require masonry to remove, +15 hammers at nearest city, doubled with Math.

That's why the ruins of castles and other stone fortifications are so rare IRL. When it becomes clear no king or lord lays claim to or cares about it, the stone will fairly quickly be "re-purposed" by locals. It is the oldest form of recycling on an industrial scale.
 
Amurites because of their connection with the previous ages. Also, it would seem natural for a society of wizards to take up housing in an Ancient Tower.

Actually, the Amurites have no connection to the previous ages, sans the Age of Ice. The Amurites were just a bunch of tribes brought together by Kylorin in the Age of Ice (near the end, I believe.) to fight against Mulcarn.

The Calabim, Bannor, Balsarephs, and probably a few others, make more sense because at least they have at least one leader from back in the Age of Magic. I think that also includes the Sheiam, Ljosafar, Svartalfar, and Clan of Embers, but I could easily be wrong on those. Not sure on the Bannor, I know Capria is several hundred years old, but Sabathiel probably has been around that long.

Anyway, I would love to see the towers/walls thing actually happen, but that's apparently not going to happen. Therefore, I think either towers should be upgradable to forts or something via same method of upgrading forts to castles et cetera (or possibly a better version due to the undoubtable higher quality materials or construction techniques of the ages past compared to now) or at least be buildable by workers as a line of sight bonus at the expense of not having the other bonuses of forts/castles/citadels.
 
At one point it was canon that the Patrians called themselves Amurites, bur Kael dropped that as he thought it would confuse people. The Amurites of the Age of Magic have no more a tie to that civ than any other human civ, except that during the Age of Ice the former Patrian Emperor joined them as their leader, because his beloved wife Eve was reborn among them as Epona. (I personally prefer to stick to the old way, at least calling the original Patrian capital Amur. The term Amurite might thus hearken back to early in the Age fo Ice, to the land Kyloirin ruled justly before he became a follower of Ceridwen.)


The Calabim are listed among the 9 factions of the Patrian Civil War, but it is also stated that the current Calabim civilization only dates back to the Age of Ice. It says that most vampires had a very hard time surviving the Age of Ice and would have gone extinct (like werewolves) had they not reached a then-mutually beneficial agreement with one poor human tribe. It is implied that Alexis and Flauros may have many times led humble tribes to become great civilizations and then slaughtered all their followers rather than let their darkest secrets become known to the world.


A civilization called the Bannor was the greatest faction in the Patrian Civil War (a civilization of the late Age of Magic, founded after Kylorin's rebellion), but the connection between the civs is not that strong. Those Bannor served Bhall and wielded holy flame against all, knowing that the flames could only hurt the guilty and would be but pleasant warmth for the innocent. They were a very passionate people, famed both for war and for love poetry. Junil was a minor god at the time, who had shrines in some of Bhall's greatest temples but no real religion of his own. It was the Bannor who most revered Junil whom Sabathiel went to hell to save. If I recall, Donal had been wounded, almost killed, and was on his funeral bier by the shrine of Junil when Bhall's fall dragged Braduk into hell.

Only a small fraction of the Bannor were dragged into hell with Bhall's fall, and only tiny remnant of these had discipline enough to make it out. Their passion had been turned wholly to justice, and their once amorous nature had become harsh and unyielding. Not enough Bannor emerged from Hell to form a civilization of their own. They had to ally and interbreed with lesser men from the scattered tribes of the end of the Age of Ice in order to form the empire we know now. I suspect that in the Age of Magic most mortals had a natural lifespan of ~250 years, and that the Bannor who emerged from hell carried the genes to still have such longevity although most mortal lifespans had shrunk to a fifth of that. These Bannor themselves spent about 500 years in a non-physical form though, in which they hardly aged at all. Most Bannor are not really descended from the heroes who emerged from hell. In fact, as the Great Houses adopt the more valiant commoners into their ranks most nobles themselves have only tenuous claims to such a pedigree.

As an Archangel, Sabathiel has been alive since early in the Age of Dragons. He and Cassiel have always been good friends and highly respect each other, but don't agree on much. While Sabathiel went to hell at his God's command, he has never actually set foot on Erebus since the signing of the Compact. He is bound to the strictest interpretation of the Compact, so Junil won't let him enter Erebus even without using his divine powers, insisting he instead give orders from a pocket dimension between Erebus and Junil's Heaven.


Most of the Bannor of the Age of Magic did not fall into hell with Bhall, but rather had their nature fall from Human to Orc, Goblin, and Ogre. These groups maintained her passion, which was turned to petty and lawless purposes. The process of changing races was likely not instant, but happened mostly in the early Age of Ice. Jonas was born in the Age of Ice, and Sheelba in the Age of rebirth. Orthus however may have lived in Braduk before its fall. (In non-canonical D&D source material, Orthus was a gambling buddy of king Khorde NuValle.)


Perpentach (originally called Henri Ghouls) was a magical savant who was taken in by Kylorin not only as a student but as his adoptive son. He was probably the strongest mage of the age, and the heir presumptive to the Patrian throne (or would be if the king weren't essentially immortal). For most of the time, he was a very dour character, cold and calculating, without any sense of humor or social skills. He was originally severely autistic. Whenever he tampered with a mind he could not help but make a complete copy of that mind within his own, and only with Kylorin's help was he able to make a barrier to keep those minds from constantly screaming at him. I suspect he took over Patria when Kylorin rebelled, perhaps dominating Kylorin's other disciples if they sought to challenge his authority. In my interpretation, not even Kylorin was able to resist his mind control. He dominated his former master, but in doing so created another copy of Kylorin who was able to break down his mental barriers from the inside. I prefer to think the real Kylorin still has no clue how he broke free, and perhaps choose to merely imprison instead of kill him because he thought his pupil had chosen to show mercy to him.

It is not quite clear when the Carnies broke Perpentach free. I prefer to think it was in the Age of Rebirth, but Nikis-Knight argues it was still in the middle of the Age of Magic. The Balseraphs are listed among the factions of the Patrian Civil War, but I prefer to think that means a civ lead by Perpentach before his imprisonment, which far from a carnival would be a more somber version of Patria under an emperor who can control his every subject's every thought.




The Ljosalfar and Svartalfar were one civilization until the start of the Age of Ice, but the factiosn had been growing long before then. Both Arendel Phaedra and Faeryl Viconia were born in the Age of Dragons, and have been ruling the Elves since Sucellus departed for the Seven Pines to negotiate The Compact. I suspect that they were 2 of Cernunnos's mortal wives, and that the other wife died from grief after her son Gower's death. During the Age of Ice, Cernunnos returned to the Ljosalfar to lead them and save them from certain destruction, but was able only to give advice, not perform any miracles for them.



The Sheaim are one of the newest civs, made of scattered groups of people who were drawn together mostly because of their loose restrictions on knowledge of powerful magics. Os-Gabella of course is the oldest leader in the game, much older even than any archangel or one god (Cernunnos). Tebryn Arbandi was an archmage who lived and died in the Age of Magic, who was brouht back to life to help Ceridwen destroy the world.



Varn Gossam was born in the Age of Magic, but was still a small child when he was taken to the Underworld and so hardly remembers life before the land of the dead. The Malakim existed as scattered tribes of desert nomads in the Age of Magic, but were not united until they found Varn.





Towers already upgrade to Forts, but not unless they are being worked. It would be odd for abandoned towers outside of cultural borders to upgrade on their own. I'm thinking I'll reduce the number of turns for the upgrade dramatically though, and make them buildable.
 
I was actually thinking about this the other day. It's a shame that these things get extremely limited use early in the game (best use I have seen so far is if you get the opportunity to get a Settler on an adjacent tile to your start for a large view). And then the fact they are almost completely useless mid-late game. I know I know, some of you will chime in and talk about "that one time" at turn 576 where you moved a Level 50 Vampire Lord onto a towered tile and it saved the game, whoopdeedoo!

I thought it would be neat if you were able to convert these towers into Mage Towers, maybe after Sorcery or Arcane Lore. Have it a buildable structure for Arcane units, much like they do on Mana Nodes. What would this Mage Tower do for you? I really don't know. It would be nice if it could give you some sort of magical boost for your civ or units, can't think of anything off hand without empowering an already powerful world of magic. Maybe it could be used as a research hub/tile and give extra beakers for your nearby city, or generate income for the city with a +3 Gold on the tile or what not.

It would be fun to have the option to keep from destroying one of those towers in your towns radius so you can hold on to it, to later upgrade it once you get Sorcery or some other Tech.

Wonder if it would be possible to create the mages tower, then create a one-time-per-unit spell mage-type units can cast. So upgrade the tower to a mages tower, then bring your mages to the tile, and each one can cast a one time spell which would give them a small bit of XP.

I dunno, you all run with the idea of upgrading the tower if you like it. Otherwise leave them as the same ol, slightly useful in turns 1-30 for exploration, useless the rest of the game waste of space they are.
 
It might be fun if they gave a free spell extension promotion for units on the same tile. Would keep them somewhat useful in the mid and late game.
 
It's a shame that these things get extremely limited use early in the game (best use I have seen so far is if you get the opportunity to get a Settler on an adjacent tile to your start for a large view).

I find Ancient Towers to be extremely helpful in the early game. A unit fortified on an Ancient Tower can clear fog of war from quite a large area, preventing barbarians from spawning. On Emperor/Immortal/Diety level I go for the proactive barbarian defense strategy, having pickets of warriors/axemen/horsemen that surround my empire and keep the barbarians clear. Ancient Towers fit in nicely with this strategy.
 
Even if the Ancient Towers ar not extremely useful they are flavourful and look good on the map. I really like them as they stand out of the landscape and help the role-playing going in your head.
As for ideas to add additional use for them, I like the idea of them being excavated for commerce or hammers. I don't like the ideas of giving promotions - that'd only add unnceceaasry micromanagement.
 
Top Bottom