Any disadvantages on accepting embassies?

[beetle]

I love getting the extra gpt from the ai before I research writing.

I am always so starved for money early on that I have started playing with this.

So, after waiting and getting writing, is there a way to get their embassy without paying for it? Sure, it is just 1 gpt, and early gold > later gold -- but when I want to start negotiating for Open Borders and RAs it is not that much later.

It feels kind of pointless, that my old habit of waiting on embassies until I had researched writing myself was almost as good a way to play -- but much less of a hassle. Am I missing something?

 

[Bimblecrumbs]

Especially on higher difficulty levels, I'm all for trading my embassy for 1GPT as early as possible. A theoretical 7 early embassies can net enough gold before the NC (210g) to buy an archer and defend/clear barb camps. It costs comparatively less to buy AI embassies later on because later gold is so much less valuable. There's so much to build in your cap before the NC, and saving on some of these hammers to fit in an extra trade caravan or something is very valuable.

Someone also mentioned it before, but the influence boost with city states for discovering a player's lands is the icing on the cake. 40 influence is so much for simply delaying getting an embassy in their cap.

Importantly, I'll always check how close certain AIs are before giving them my embassy. If Shaka, Genghis, Attila, Caesar etc. are within early rush distance, then there's no way I'll give them an embassy since more information on their part increases the likelihood of an attack.

 

[Luis_Ah_Hoy]

13 month old thread necro for wrong.

It's 1gpt for embassy. Or the most I have ever seen is 2g, 1gpt for one. Obviously requires DoF, so pretty pointless by then.

They're never going to offer you so much that it becomes worth the wait, since early gold > later gold.

Playing on Deity difficulty, before I researched Writing and after 3 refuses from me, Al Mansur (Morocco) offered me 505 gold to establish an embassy in my Capital.
That amount is 8x higher than even the best deal you talked about: 2gpt.

My impression was right, after all. Being patient and not accepting offers very early on can bring higher benefits later.

So much for being right.

 

[beetle]

Playing on Deity difficulty, before I researched Writing and after 3 refuses from me, Al Mansur (Morocco) offered me 505 gold to establish an embassy in my Capital. That amount is 8x higher than even the best deal you talked about: 2gpt.

I remain skeptical, I have never even gotten a 2 gpt offer. Screen shots please? I have refused embassies 3 times from an AI. But maybe I never got that fourth offer?

Especially on higher difficulty levels, I'm all for trading my embassy for 1GPT as early as possible. A theoretical 7 early embassies can net enough gold before the NC (210g) to buy an archer and defend/clear barb camps.

That is the net sum after 30 turns and assuming you have met all 7 AIs. So it still seems like too little and too late. The other difficulty that I run into is that I am pretty aggressive with scouting -- so often I am looking for Open Borders -- and you cannot get that without an embassy.

Someone also mentioned it before, but the influence boost with city states for discovering a player's lands is the icing on the cake. 40 influence is so much for simply delaying getting an embassy in their cap.

This is a good tip, and I think it will trigger for at least one CS most games.

All this said, my last few games I have been selling embassies for 35g with civs that offer DOF. When I need embassy, I pay 1gpt, so a small profit. But it more about getting a decent chunk early, but paying it back later for a trivial amount. So it really does feel like free gold.

 

[Mr. Shadows]

I am always so starved for money early on that I have started playing with this.

So, after waiting and getting writing, is there a way to get their embassy without paying for it? Sure, it is just 1 gpt, and early gold > later gold -- but when I want to start negotiating for Open Borders and RAs it is not that much later.

It feels kind of pointless, that my old habit of waiting on embassies until I had researched writing myself was almost as good a way to play -- but much less of a hassle. Am I missing something?

My reasoning is mostly that early gold is better than late gold. Especially if they're close to me because I've always liked to make war early regardless of victory type. I used to do it with cats, as I've gotten better I've started using CBs. That means someone is helping to pay to upgrade the archers that will be stomping on them shortly If I want to work closely with a civ I'll try to include the embassy in a resource deal. I suppose I lose money sometimes but then again sometimes my available buyers don't have 7 gpt to give so I get some money for the resource instead of none and the embassy.

 

[beetle]

That means someone is helping to pay to upgrade the archers that will be stomping on them shortly

That is best way to do this. If you DOW before needing an embassy, then the 1gpt is all profit!

 

[Luis_Ah_Hoy]

I remain skeptical, I have never even gotten a 2 gpt offer. Screen shots please? I have refused embassies 3 times from an AI. But maybe I never got that fourth offer

1. At the time, I didn't even remember to take a screenshot, as I was extremely focused on the game. It did happen though.
Only drawback is that many gamers probably have the need to research Writing before waiting enough for that kind of deals. After the human player acquire Writing, probably the AI won't be inclined to give him Gold, trading Embassy for Embassy instead.
But that has yet to be confirmed.

2. Another thing to keep in mind is the level of Difficulty.
As we all know, Embassies are a crucial part of the AI offensive strategy. Since the AI (for that purpose), is so keen to establish Embassies it does make sense that in higher Difficulties the AI will have more resources (Gold), to persuade the human player to accept an Embassy. Underscoring that in higher difficulties the AI develops his economy and extends his territory quite early and more rapidly.

That being said, in what level you play(ed) on?

 

[beetle]

Another thing to keep in mind is the level of Difficulty.
As we all know, Embassies are a crucial part of the AI offensive strategy. Since the AI (for that purpose), is so keen to establish Embassies it does make sense that in higher Difficulties the AI will have more resources (Gold), to persuade the human player to accept an Embassy.

The other thing that could be going on that a CS gave Morocco a “discover the lands of” quest, and like you say, Deity AIs have plenty of gold -- so friend status with a CS for 505 gold is not a terrible deal (especially for an AI sitting on a pile of gold).

That being said, in what level you play(ed) on?

Deity. Pics or it didn’t happen!

 

[Luis_Ah_Hoy]

Not going to get that particular pic anymore, unfortunately.

But just started a new game and hopefully I'll come back with an image. I don't usually rush on researching Writing, so there is a chance of getting the screenshot.
Let's see.

 

[beetle]

Well, presumable it was a pretty outstanding event for you! Certainly worthy of the “funny screenshots” thread!

But if you can routinely get 2gpt or 70 gold for OB -- that would be extremely instructive. Standard pace, yes?

 

[Luis_Ah_Hoy]

Getting 505 gold from the AI (for almost nothing), is pretty outstanding for any gamer, I guess.
Worthy of the "funny screenshots"... why?

Pace: Marathon

 

[beetle]

Getting 505 gold from the AI (for almost nothing), is pretty outstanding for any gamer, I guess.

I often get 400+ gold for WC votes -- for voting the way I would be voting anyway!

Worthy of the "funny screenshots"... why?

Because 500 gold for OB is an exceptional event!

Pace: Marathon

Okay, I guess that bumps up the price quite a bit. But if I even got 100 gold for OB that would be outstanding. It seems quite fixed price to me: 35 gold.

 

[reddishrecue]

I've seen AI offer up to 20 gpt for OB but not 500 gold for OB.
I guess its about the same though
20 x 30 = 600 gold.

 

[Luis_Ah_Hoy]

I often get 400+ gold for WC votes -- for voting the way I would be voting anyway!

Why are you even comparing early gold with later gold? It doesn't take a degree in Economics to know that early gold is more valuable and preferable.

Because 500 gold for OB is an exceptional event!

505 gold for an Embassy, actually. But perhaps we'll now have a demonstration on how OB is the same.
Can't wait.

Also, I never described it as "an exceptional event". It was pure luck.
I described it rather, as an outstanding deal. And it really was.


Screenshot attached.

 

[beetle]

Screenshot attached.

Excellent! Can you routinely get about that amount? Yes, early gold >> later gold. I regard the 400+ gold for WC votes to be trivia. 300 gold for embassy is game changing!

 

[Andy0132]

Congratulations on obtaining such an excellent deal!

 

[Luis_Ah_Hoy]

Excellent! Can you routinely get about that amount? Yes, early gold >> later gold. I regard the 400+ gold for WC votes to be trivia. 300 gold for embassy is game changing!

Jesus, lol. Still don't get it, huh?

Never approached it as a game changing event. Simple demonstrating how the guy that peremptorily said that the best deal you could get for an Embassy is 2gpt (or 60 gold), was wrong.

Congratulations on obtaining such an excellent deal!

Thanks, Andy.
But like I said, it's a matter of luck. I started a new game but I even refused 5 times to Washington. Didn't get this kind of deal for an Embassy.

Had to start a test game to finally have something approximate.

 

[beetle]

If you could routinely get 300 gold for (early) embassy it would be game changing. That is a worker -- and people build their early games around worker steals.

 

[Luis_Ah_Hoy]

By the time someone comes with that offer, I have already spent money on a new Worker or even on a Building for my newest city.

Thing is: I'll probably only have a max. of 3 cities then, and already have two Workers and many improvements (3 or 4 Liberty policies adopted). Therefore, not having much need to use a third Worker so soon.

Nevertheless, 300 gold obviously help to accelerate the economy a bit.

 

[Redaxe]

Playing on Deity difficulty, before I researched Writing and after 3 refuses from me, Al Mansur (Morocco) offered me 505 gold to establish an embassy in my Capital.
That amount is 8x higher than even the best deal you talked about: 2gpt.

My impression was right, after all. Being patient and not accepting offers very early on can bring higher benefits later.

So much for being right.

Wow - I've never seen anything like that.

You must have been friends with Morocco? Otherwise they wouldn't offer you that much flat gold. I'm also baffled at how an early AI could get so much - was El Dorado on that map by any chance?

Also there is one other way to get 2gpt from an embassy.

See at Diety the AI will generally pay you 7gpt for a luxury and 1 gpt for an embassy. BUT if you combine the two together the AI will pay you 9gpt.
This may work for some other deals to. I think it essentially boils down the AI paying you 1.4gpt for the embassy or 7.4 gpt for the luxury so separately it will round down but together it rounds up.
At least that's what I think happens. Anyway usually I'm not in a rush to sell an embassy so waiting until I have some duplicate luxuries is not always bad.