Are you a veteran of your nation's military?

[IglooDame]

A lot of people feel that needing glasses disqualifies one from joining the military, so I looked it up and found the following:

a. Distant visual acuity of any degree that does not correct with spectacle lenses to at least one of the following (367):

(1) 20/40 in one eye and 20/70 in the other eye.

(2) 20/30 in one eye and 20/100 in the other eye.

(3) 20/20 in one eye and 20/400 in the other eye. However, for entrance into a military academy, distant visual acuity that does not correct to 20/20 in each eye is disqualifying. For entrance into ROTC programs and OCS/OTS, distant visual acuity that does not correct to 20/20 in one eye and 20/100 in the other eye is disqualifying.

b. Near visual acuity (367) of any degree that does not correct to 20/40 in the better eye.

c. Refractive error (hyperopia (367.0), myopia (367.1), astigmatism (367.2)), in any spherical equivalent of worse than –8.00 or + 8.00 diopters; if ordinary spectacles cause discomfort by reason of ghost images or prismatic displacement; or if corrected by orthokeratology or keratorefractive surgery. However, for entrance into a military academy or ROTC programs, the following conditions are disqualifying:

(1) Astigmatism, all types over 3 diopters.

(2) Hyperopia over 8.00 diopters spherical equivalent.

(3) Myopia over 6.75 diopters spherical equivalent.

(4) Refractive error corrected by orthokeratology or keratorefractive surgery.

d. Contact lenses. Complicated cases requiring contact lenses for adequate correction of vision, such as corneal scars (371) and irregular astigmatism (367.2).

e. Color vision (368.5). Although there is no standard, color vision will be tested because adequate color vision is a prerequisite for entry into many military specialties. However, for entrance into a military academy or ROTC or OCS/OTS programs, the inability to distinguish and identify without confusion the color of an object, substance, material, or light that is uniformly colored a vivid red or vivid green is disqualifying.

Derived from Department of Defense (DOD) Directive 6130.3, Physical Standards for Appointment, Enlistment, and Induction, and DOD Instruction 6130.4, Criteria and Procedure Requirements for Physical Standards for Appointment, Enlistment, or Induction in the Armed Forces.

 

[The Yankee]

I am not. Though I did start an application for West Point, until a car crash put that to an end. From there, looked at offers and took the tests for the Navy, Army National Guard, and the Marine Corps. I would have done well enough to get into any field I wanted, as long as I made it through training.

However, a disappointing workout (in that I wasn't as able as I was pre-crash with the running some miles) with the Marines made me think about college first, as I was already entering.

 

[The Yankee]

A lot of people feel that needing glasses disqualifies one from joining the military, so I looked it up and found the following:

I did not have a problem. About a third of the people I talked to wore glasses. My eyes are bad, but the lenses give me vision and it was obvious, since I wore glasses.

 

[Secular]

I did not have a problem. About a third of the people I talked to wore glasses. My eyes are bad, but the lenses give me vision and it was obvious, since I wore glasses.

I have a 9.13 spherical defraction. (depressingly close to blind without glasses) Just needed a waiver. Then you get the fun of wearing your bc glasses. Sexiest things on earth.

 

[A'AbarachAmadan]

I have a 9.13 spherical defraction. (depressingly close to blind without glasses) Just needed a waiver. Then you get the fun of wearing your bc glasses. Sexiest things on earth.

Hopefully you are elligible for lasic. Another benefit of service in the US military if you are in the right place at the right time.

 

[GenMarshall]

Its no supprise to see "I am not old enough for military service but plan to join." with no votes in this thread, many of the younger generation dont wish to risk their lives in going into the Iraqi meat grinder.

 

[xyourxmomxcorex]

No. Im a pacifist...
I wanted to be a marine when i was younger though.

 

[MobBoss]

Its no supprise to see "I am not old enough for military service but plan to join." with no votes in this thread, many of the younger generation dont wish to risk their lives in going into the Iraqi meat grinder.

Or maybe they just dont know about the money available.

Right now qualified young men and women can receive over 70k, yes, thats right 70k in the Army College Fund for a 5 to 6 year enlistment. They can probably qualify for thousands more in bonus monies (I am talking over 20k cash here) depending on what job speciality they take.

As for Iraq being a "meat grinder'...think of how many hundreds of thousands of troops that have rotated in and out of Iraq in the last three years without a scratch. Just by odds alone, your chances of getting killed by a car accident on the freeway is probably higher than getting killed in Iraq as a member of the US Army.

 

[GenMarshall]

No. Im a pacifist...

I often wonder if a pacifist can register himself as a conciencious objectior if the draft is ever reinstated. I myself find myself wanting to register for a conciencious objectior's status, though the problem is that I am only against the Second Gulf War for political reasons, eventhough my secondary reasons is that the Catholic Church is also against the War in Iraq.

 

[xyourxmomxcorex]

I belive that you would be assinged to a non-combat role...

 

[A'AbarachAmadan]

Its no supprise to see "I am not old enough for military service but plan to join." with no votes in this thread, many of the younger generation dont wish to risk their lives in going into the Iraqi meat grinder.

Most of the kids on this forum have more economical options. If you went to my home town you'd find people joining and REQUESTING a tour in Iraq. While I don't want to be separated from my family again right now, if I get a short tour I would rather have it be Afghanistan or Iraq than anyplace else.

While not every service met its goals last year, the Army's numbers are a bit low due to it increasing in size right now.

Fiscal 2005 Enlisted Recruiting from Oct. 1, 2004 - September 30, 2005:


Recruiting Goals

Componant Accessions Goal Percent
Army
73,373
80,000
92
Navy
37,703
37,635
100
Marine Corps
32,961
32,917
100
Air Force
19,222
18,900
102
Army National Guard 50,219
63,002
80
Army Reserve
23,859
28,485
84
Navy Reserve
9,788
11,141
88
Marine Corps Reserve
8,350
8,180
102
Air National Guard
8,859
10,272
86
Air Force Reserve 9,942
8,801
113

 

[GenMarshall]

Or maybe they just dont know about the money available.

Right now qualified young men and women can receive over 70k, yes, thats right 70k in the Army College Fund for a 5 to 6 year enlistment. They can probably qualify for thousands more in bonus monies (I am talking over 20k cash here) depending on what job speciality they take.

Thats certanly a big myth. Apperently you have not seen the fine print about this so called bait to get solders and sailors.

Read the Fine Print

Advertisements that offer money for college if you join the military are advertising two programs, the Montgomery GI Bill and the Army College Fund or Navy College Fund. Almost all enlistees join the Montgomery GI Bill on entering the military. Far fewer enlistees (1 in 20) qualify for the higher benefit Army College Fund, or Navy College Fund, and they must also participate in the Montgomery GI Bill.

In order to receive any education benefit there are several conditions that must be met. First, you must contribute $100 per month for the first twelve months of your tour. Those payments must be made for all twelve months and can't be canceled once they're begun. There is no refund of that $1200, ever. Additionally, you must receive an honorable discharge, something that 20% of all veterans don't get.

The maximum benefit you can qualify for under the Montgomery GI Bill is $36,144. To earn a larger benefit, like the $70,000 the military is so fond of advertising, you must qualify for the Army/Navy College Fund. To do this you must score in the top half of the military entry tests and be willing to enter a designated job specialty. These designated Military Occupational Specialties are the most unpopular in the military. The military has a hard time filling them because they have no skills that are transferable to the civilian job market.

More Obstacles

Even after you've been honorably discharged, you're still a long way from getting that money. Even though you've earned your tuition benefit you probably won't get it all. The military has still more requirements for you to fulfill before you get all of your money. Of course, you must be attending an accredited school. The military's payment plan is based on a four-year college schedule: they'll pay you equal portions of your money over 36 months (the equivalent of four academic years of nine months each). This schedule is not flexible! If you, like 56% of veterans using the Montgomery GI Bill, attend a two-year school or vocational school you can not receive larger payments over a shorter period of time. That means a two year college graduate will receive only half of the money they have earned!

Even though you earned that money, the Montgomery GI Bill doesn't let you decide how to use it in the way that's best for you. But your argument will fall on deaf ears. The military advertises large amounts of education money but the program is designed so the money is hard to get and harder to use. The inflexibility of the Montgomery GI Bill shows that the military wants to use it to recruit you, not to send you to college.

It Isn't Enough

Even if you qualify for and receive the full $70,000, it isn't worth as much as you might think. While World War II GI Bill participants were able to attend 90% of all schools (public, private, two-year and four-year) with their tuition grant, $70,000 will barely cover two years at some private schools today.

Even state universities cost an average of about $9,000 per year. Your benefits probably won't increase while you're in the military (benefits have been raised 3 times since the program was begun in 1985). But the cost of education will continue to rise at a rate of 5-10% per year. By the time you finish your tour, your education benefit will be worth a quarter less than when you signed up. If you don't go to school right after the military, which many people don't, your benefit will become worth less and less.

You need to ask yourself in a serious and realistic way, do you intend to go to college? If yes, you need to have a plan. That plan may include joining the military, but you can see that will work for only a few people. If your plans for going to college seem to be more dream than reality, you need to take a long look at what is really possible. If you're hoping that the military can make an unplanned dream come true, it's not going to happen. Don't forget, you're risking your own money in the Montgomery GI Bill as well.

Education in the Military?

Recruiters also like to talk about educational opportunities while you're in the military. According to recruiters, not only will you learn skill in your job specialty but you also have the chance to take college courses on-base or close by. In theory, this may be true. But when the military commissioned a study to see what soldiers thought of military recruiting, an overwhelming number responded that they thought military advertisements' promises of education were "lies...false" or "not the truth to me." Rather than working with the helicopters you see in slick advertisements, they found themselves "buffin' floors and pickin' up cigarette butts."

Your decision about whether to join the military, with or without the Montgomery GI Bill, is not an easy one. Unfortunately, it's not as simple as weighing the pros and cons of this or that benefit. Other jobs may be hard to come by, but they don't demand what the military demands. You give up your freedom when you join the military, entering a different world with different laws, where others can control your life 24 hours a day, seven days a week.

The Military Mission

Above all else, the military is an institution with one overriding purpose: to prepare for and fight wars. You literally sign your life over to the military. For some who joined the military before the Gulf War, they didn't fully realize this until they were faced with an actual war in Saudi Arabia against Iraq. Don't make the same mistake they made. If you're going to join the military be prepared to fight a war, even a war you may not agree with. It could be a war we lose, like Vietnam. Or, it could be a war we win, like in Kuwait. Either way, people are killed and you might be the one who kills them. As much as the war in Iraq has been celebrated, you can find US veterans who can't forget some of the awful things they saw there. Is that the kind of risk you want to take to finance your college education?

Be A Smart Consumer

The Montgomery GI Bill was not created to send you, or anyone else, to school. It was designed to recruit soldiers. It may be all the same to you, as long as you end up with money for college. But why the program was created affects its design and how well it is funded. The Montgomery GI Bill is designed to attract you with a large sounding amount of money with lots of strings attached. The maximum benefit of $70,000 quickly dwindles to $36,144 or $6588 for an alarming number of recruits. Many don't find that out until after they've joined! By then it's much too late...

Nobody else can make decisions about what is best for you, not the recruiter and not us. But your decisions should be based on more than slick ads and a recruiter's sales pitch. The military promises but often it does not deliver.

http://www.objector.org/before-you-enlist/gi-bill.html

All it sums up to is that the oportunities that you refered is just a big advertising scam just to get bodies into the military machine.

As for Iraq being a "meat grinder'...think of how many hundreds of thousands of troops that have rotated in and out of Iraq in the last three years without a scratch. Just by odds alone, your chances of getting killed by a car accident on the freeway is probably higher than getting killed in Iraq as a member of the US Army.

Thats certanly just a myth. I have read in the paper that there are numorous divisions out there for three years. Connecticut alone has already lost it's share of solders in this unjust war in the middle east.

 

[GenMarshall]

I belive that you would be assinged to a non-combat role...

Certanly I dont wish to aid a military machine that is in a war that I believe is wrong.

 

[xyourxmomxcorex]

Well, the whole point of the draft is forcing you to join...
but if something happened that i felt that strongly about, i would rather go to prison/leave the country than support something that was wrong.

 

[A'AbarachAmadan]

I belive that you would be assinged to a non-combat role...

No. If you get the status you won't be required to serve, though those that are only against one thing such as 'Iraq' would probably not be granted the status.

Only non-combatants (such as chaplains, doctors, etc.) don't carry weapons. There is no such thing as a non-combat role for most people, though Congress would like us to think so. If you think being comms, admin, logistics, etc. will keep you out of combat then think again.

 

[GenMarshall]

Well, the whole point of the draft is forcing you to join...
but if something happened that i felt that strongly about, i would rather go to prison/leave the country than support something that was wrong.

Well I know one place I am going if the draft is ever reinstated. Move to Canada . Since prison is not an option for me.

On the prison part, what happens if the guy changes his mind and goes through with the draft?

No. If you get the status you won't be required to serve, though those that are only against one thing such as 'Iraq' would probably not be granted the status.

Then what would I need? Gulf War II is certanly the thing I am against and I am the one chanting "Hell no I wont go". Note, Prision term is not an option for me.

 

[A'AbarachAmadan]

All it sums up to is that the oportunities that you refered is just a big advertising scam just to get bodies into the military machine.

The site is quoting some bogus stuff. Of course it ain't gonna cover Princeton or Harvard or other richy, rich schools. It is made for us common folk who did the state school thing. In addition to the GI Bill the military will pay tuition assistance while on active duty. I got my Masters for free this way (with an additional two year obligation, but worth it for a FREE Masters degree, especially since I wasn't planning on getting out). Since I'll still be in for at least six years, I'm planning on getting my Doctorate, for free, over the next four years. I don't know a single soldier or ex-soldier paying a dime for college.

 

[MobBoss]

Thats certanly a big myth. Apperently you have not seen the fine print about this so called bait to get solders and sailors.

Its not a myth. People get that money paid out all the time. Hell, I myself still have 15 grand in an account from the Montgomery GI Bill...going to use it after I retire.

As for the job skills thing that is insane. While the highest bonus's do go for combat arms, they still need a lot of people as cooks, engineers, military police, translators etc. Also the test is not the "top half" unless you think scoring a 50 or higher is top half. All your quote is a very misleading piece of propaganda meant to discourage kids from enlisting. Here is a truthful link: http://www.militarypay.com/Bonuses.html

All it sums up to is that the oportunities that you refered is just a big advertising scam just to get bodies into the military machine.

No, its not just a advertising scam. If it were we would have the ACLU all over us. Your little paper is propaganda however, nothing more, nothing less.

[/QUOTE]Thats certanly just a myth. I have read in the paper that there are numorous divisions out there for three years. Connecticut alone has already lost it's share of solders in this unjust war in the middle east.[/QUOTE]

No, by LAW the maximum that a unit/person from the guard/reserves can be deployed involuntarily is two years and then they must be rotated out. The TYPICAL rotation for all units active or reserve is a one year stint. That is the truth and not a lie. Dont tell me my business and put out lies and propaganda.

 

[A'AbarachAmadan]

Then what would I need? Gulf War II is certanly the thing I am against and I am the one chanting "Hell no I wont go". Note, Prision term is not an option for me.

That site you quoted does have some good advice on being an objector, though I wouldn't worry about a draft for Iraq. Congress couldn't survive it. If it did happen I would suggest trying to get status first and if it failed leave the country. Canada may not be an option as they refused status to two military members who refused to go back for a second term; though again, an actual draft may change that.

 

[Lotus49]

I did 4 years active in the USMC. And for the rest of my life, I can always stop, think, and be joyously happy - no matter what. All I have to do is remind myself that "it's over".

Endless source of happiness and peace of mind. How can you put a price on that?